Place, space, development (1 Viewer)

[Deleted member 5849]

(I need some new material really but hey, a spot of crossover's no bad thing Just don't go to the same gigs or you hear it all before!)

It's a funny thing really, space.

The geographic bit in itself is largely irrelevant, it's what it means and what's layered on top of it that makes it relevant.

it's where new stadium builds are dangerous for the long term health of football clubs. They're glossy, shiny, have plenty of amenities for driving through increased revenues.

But that's all in the short term.

What they lose is the sense of tradition, peoples' connections with their fathers, grandfathers, men who stand in the same spot generation after generation. You go along, you touch the ground you hold the rail it beings this connection to you, makes it entirely natural that you're here today.

With a new stadium, elsewhere, you obviously don't get that, you lose that connection, you disenfranchise some.

So what you have to do to save it is layer on top the memories. the songs, the colours, the badge, the photos prompting memories... the statues.

It's what McGinnity and co. failed at so dismally when we moved to the RIcoh. it was a flat pack stadium but it wasn't ours. Bar the colour of the seats we'd lost everything, we had no connection. it was nice, it was flashy, but it had no connection to the past and the club made no effort to give it that connection, and nor did its owners or managers. We didn't even get the success on the pitch to make some new memories.

A new stadium has an even bigger handicap if it's 8 miles out. Coventry City playing in Kings Newnham? Well they wanted to stick an airport there bigger than heathrow...

But the space is wrong, you have to work harder to make that connection to the past but you're missing a generation where that connection has been broken with the Ricoh. It's possibly an impossible task to reclaim this.

So... back to the Ricoh? But it has to be back to the Ricoh where the club is central. Back to the Ricoh as part of a property development, back as part of a sporting conglomerate, none of that will work in building the ties.

It has to be ours, the club's. Not SISU's, not ACL's. It has to belong to us in thought and emotion, if not our names on the deeds.

 

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[James Smith]

Unless Joy and Tim have been lying to us, Plan A is the New Stadium, so we need to make that our home and forget about the Ricoh. Or are you saying that Joy and Tim have been lying?

 

[georgehudson]

perhaps, mistakenly, i was under the impression that TF only came out with what JS wanted to say,
so, is that not over to JS for her next emission

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Or are you saying that Joy and Tim have been lying?

No what I'm doing is giving a critical commentary on the importance of the use of space, the making of place, and how that links to identity.

 

[Hobo]

No what I'm doing is giving a critical commentary on the importance of the use of space, the making of place, and how that links to identity.

And a good critical commentary too. For instance Wolves have developed their ground but still incorporated an old clock into the design of one of the stands. I think Arsenal took an old clock with them too. How many eyes have stared at those over the years round about 4:45?

On a similar note successful teams stick to the same kit with only small tweaks to the design each year. It's the under achieving clubs who tend to go for radical changes...trying to kick start a new dawn...as we have experienced in the past.

It is hard to define what defines a football club. Any Sociology students out there looking for a research subject?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It's actually what, in a way, the quote about Highfield Road 2 was supposed to invoke. The timing to say that was poor, and it wasn't overly well done but the rationale behind that is sound, that borrowing from the essence of the past and overlaying it on the present is the way forward.

Unfortunately as the distances out of town become further and further that premise has to work harder, it becomes in danger of being a mere simulacrum without any basis beyond the superficial, it struggles to embed itself in the collective consciousness.

We appear to be caught between a rock and a hard place with regards to our identity and our space, where none of the possibile options on offer give an easy answer long term.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

A simplistic answer NW forgive me- but our identity certainly isn't 35 miles away in Northampton, In fairness our identity was eroded when we left HR- but stolen when these bafoons took us to Cobbler Town.
Plans to build a new ground within the walls of Coventry are not realistic- it will not happen and like James often infers any stadium plans remain a figment of a SISU political leverage point where their artistic licence and creative mind mapping conquer pragmatism(that's being kind).

The answer lies in returning the team home to the Ricoh Arena-Coventry and ensuring that the triumphant return is maximised; reconnecting the people of Coventry with its football club. Given our current form and status this shouldnt be too difficult. Marketeers should revel in such a return- from sensible ticket price structuring to support event hosting. References to former players and teams posted around the ground. Call one end behind the goal "The West End"- Allow CCFC fans behind the goal at BOTH ends etc etc.. its not difficult- most CCFC fans would be endeared by even such an attempt- SISU are absolutley appaling at this- I really think they have a cultural disconnect with the British psyche/football fan. So, so wrong, so many times around such matters.

Loathe them as I do Aston Villa maximise the connection with its fan base and history with clever commentary around Villa Park from its former glories-their identity- why should the Ricoh not do something similar?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It's not just about returning to the Ricoh though, that's the short term.

The long term is all toom often neglected by everybody.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

It's not just about returning to the Ricoh though, that's the short term.

The long term is all toom often neglected by everybody.

But without a return to the Ricoh- on terms nutually acceptable to all we have no chance.. on that I hope we agree?
The "softer" aspects to which you refer are really about sensible management- the club needs a figure head, a leader, a pioneer... bloody hell the club needs JH.. oh how spoiled we were- what a man.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But without a return to the Ricoh- on terms nutually acceptable to all we have no chance.. on that I hope we agree?

So... back to the Ricoh? But it has to be back to the Ricoh where the club is central. Back to the Ricoh as part of a property development, back as part of a sporting conglomerate, none of that will work in building the ties.

In the quest for financial returns, the social returns are always neglected. This is the age we live in, alas.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

If as I think you are suggesting that whilst a return to the Ricoh on mutually acceptable terms might appease the financiers, but not establish the "connection".. I disagree.
I genuinely think the Ricoh can become our home-but the club have to reach out to the community to make that connection. It just needs a little very simple 'out the box' thinking in establishing the stadium into the hearts of the fans.

Simple things as previously suggested would go a long way- Why not have one end called "The West End"?-Why not have a "Strikers Bar"? - Coventry fans behind the goal at BOTH ends-The first game back; adults a tenner, kids for a quid-The commentary of the cup final winning goal scrolled and adorning one or both ends as a back drop-A montage of this season goals played on the big screen before the KO-Tannoy music more akin to the football club not some inane earworm music as recent-The Sky Blue Song(our national anthem!!- source Billy Bell) played before KO, or a rendition of "in our Coventry homes"-A special pre match interview with SP on the big screen, fan aligned cliche's after cliche within it-over and over. These aren't ground breaking revelations and yet I can't recall any such similar events other than perhaps the Chelsea FA Cup game when we passed the flag around and held up "cards".

Football fans in the main seek little more from a football match than a sense of belonging-basic Maslow heirachy - it's what we are, defining 2-3 hours on a Saturday as what we do- together.
The club continue to miss this.
Product,Promotion,Price,Place and People- for success all 5 aspects have to be synergised- its not rocket science.

As a club we also crave a figure head to which the fans can relate. SISU head honcho's to date so disappoint- not just Mr Fisher- all previous incumbents have failed to recognise the People of this great city- so disconnected are they from us.

Bottom line- Football is an emotional game- rational people act irrationaly when at the match, and whilst this is often portrayed in a bad light- this passionate response must be captured and turned to the advantage of the club.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

A new stadium has an even bigger handicap if it's 8 miles out. Coventry City playing in Kings Newnham? Well they wanted to stick an airport there bigger than heathrow... .

I'm from the village next to Kings Newnham, Church Lawford. There's one road in, one road out, VERY much a country lane. Kings Newnham itself is on a massive hill. I don't think we're going to see a stadium there! I'm guessing you just picked a name out of the air?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'm from the village next to Kings Newnham, Church Lawford. There's one road in, one road out, VERY much a country lane. Kings Newnham itself is on a massive hill. I don't think we're going to see a stadium there! I'm guessing you just picked a name out of the air?

Nope, I picked it because I don't come from far away from there myself, and it made many points in one statement.

You must remember the politicking about the airport after all? Woluld have flattened King's Newnham, runway would have ended just about at the A45... but all in all it's such a ludicrous option that it made people welcome an extra runway at Heathrow with open arms, as the better option than flattening the countryside.

And the Heathrow option would have been opposed otherwise, without a less palatable alternative...

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Nope, I picked it because I don't come from far away from there myself, and it made many points in one statement.

You must remember the politicking about the airport after all? Woluld have flattened King's Newnham, runway would have ended just about at the A45... but all in all it's such a ludicrous option that it made people welcome an extra runway at Heathrow with open arms, as the better option than flattening the countryside.

And the Heathrow option would have been opposed otherwise, without a less palatable alternative...

That's some good Machiavellian work re: Heathrow, for sure, and politics is full of such machinations, but it isn't a great example in that building a stadium there is neither on the agenda or remotely affordable: you'd have to drain and/or flatten a huge amount of land and build new roads. The budget for an airport is slightly bigger than a football stadium!

Be interesting to see my family's response if they did plan to build there (which they aren't, of course); they're all City fans and my dad and two of my little brothers were on the front page of the local paper with placards protesting against the airport.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

That's some good Machiavellian work re: Heathrow, for sure, and politics is full of such machinations, but it isn't a great example in that building a stadium there is neither on the agenda or remotely affordable: you'd have to drain and/or flatten a huge amount of land and build new roads. The budget for an airport is slightly bigger than a football stadium!

Be interesting to see my family's response if they did plan to build there (which they aren't, of course); they're all City fans and my dad and two of my little brothers were on the front page of the local paper with placards protesting against the airport.

I think you're taking the analogy a little over literally!

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

I think you're taking the analogy a little over literally!

Just saw the word Kings Newnham and assumed it was based on something more real. But it was just an analogy. So I had to point out why it was an unfeasible one! That'd be like...erm...trying to mount Operation Sealion without first establishing air superiority? Will that do?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It was kind of the point that a stadium in Kings Newnham isn't practical for Coventry City(!)

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Oh while we're here, naming things after past players, events etc is all very well, but that's the surface rather than depth.

For the Ricoh to be ours, for us to have the sense of identity and reclaim that which is lost, long term, needs far more than a nod to the David Phillips burger bar, it needs a sea change in the very fabric of how the space is used as well as presented.

 

[Hobo]

What interests me here NW is location is all important. A new stadium would have to be part of a development or have development potential, for SISU to follow their arguments through, get their revenue streams and a return on their 60 m investment (excuse me I appear to be choking on something).

Cynicism aside, that is the reality. They have limited options outside the Ricoh, unless they move to an under football populated area. Worcester for instance. Then you are in a MK Dons situation. Although we should realise Worcester are homeless themselves at the moment?

I think unless SISU get the Ricoh by the end of the season they will walk away or pull the plug. I really don't think they have invested that much not to be able to write it off.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What interests me here NW is location is all important. A new stadium would have to be part of a development or have development potential, for SISU to follow their arguments through, get their revenue streams and a return on their 60 m investment (excuse me I appear to be choking on something).

This is the horror of the modern age too, isn't it?

Our 'home' stadium doesn't even have a name we can identify with, after money men soon realised giving stadiums traditional names meant the rewards for sponsorship were far less; people still think of the Riverside and St. Marys after all

Short term, understandable. Long term? Less so, as it stops the affinity with place building up. And when football relies on the repeat business and blind loyalty, anything that weakens that bond and makes it more 'fickle' is a dangerous game to play.

 

[Hobo]

This is the horror of the modern age too, isn't it?

Our 'home' stadium doesn't even have a name we can identify with, after money men soon realised giving stadiums traditional names meant the rewards for sponsorship were far less; people still think of the Riverside and St. Marys after all

Short term, understandable. Long term? Less so, as it stops the affinity with place building up. And when football relies on the repeat business and blind loyalty, anything that weakens that bond and makes it more 'fickle' is a dangerous game to play.

In an ideal world football clubs would belong to communities and fans, not big businesses. We have had the era of local business men digging deep into pockets try to do their bit.

But now Sky, hedge funds, foreign investment? We have to roll with the times I guess? Unfortunately our situation shows how vulnerable it can all be.

I have thought long and hard about football, business, me, what it all means? How relevant is the modern game to me?
I really was drifting away and wrote to the FL to say so.

A young side and a positive manager has pulled me back for the time being. We just need that young side to be playing in a location that they represent.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

A young side and a positive manager has pulled me back for the time being. We just need that young side to be playing in a location that they represent.

It's one of the things that probably helps too, an identity of what the club 'is'. Even if it's a 'Galactico' sign foreigners identity, that's still an identity!

We used to have one as a family club who gave young talent a chance, and it's certainly easier to identify with bloke who came from the same kind of place as you than generic mercenary #19!

Players move on though, the things that should stay the same is the space the players play in. Once it changes, the onus is on the club to make it different... yet the same.

tbh we never had that as we never owned the space ourselves, so it never had the chance to be 'Coventry City's' stadium... and McGinnity had some bizarre ideas about holding onto tradition anyway!

Having made our (second) break there would indeed be an outpouring of connection to the place if we came back... but what's the betting club/stadiumn owners/ whoever fail to capitalise on that and do something to solidify that, but instead take it for granted until the same complaints about the ground and lack of connection eventually start to surface again?

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

Unless Joy and Tim have been lying to us, Plan A is the New Stadium, so we need to make that our home and forget about the Ricoh. Or are you saying that Joy and Tim have been lying?

TF & JS Telling lies?........who could possibly suggest such thing?
Mind you, sometimes when tales are told its hard to distinguish between lies and complete delusion.