Pkh (1 Viewer)

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
We're not a hedge fund indeed, but peoples' areas of expertise can provide an insight into motivation for owning a club, of course. I struggled to believe a hedge fund had desires to own a sporting empire, struggle to believe the same about property developers either.

And on the wider sense, and worth pointing out again, the problem with these kinds of debates is sayiong 'ah, but our current owners are shit' is where it falls down.

Thankfully (at last!) just about everybody accepts that our current owners are shit. But when they took over, so keen were people to get rid of the unholy Robinson effort (let's not forget in terms of damage to the club, that era was probably worse than now - at least the current lot have nothing left to flog after they finished with it!) that SISU were embraced, welcomed... because the previous owners were shit, and bad for the club.

So concerns about future owners doesn't deny the present owners are shit and bad for the club, but nor should that be a retort to quell concerns about future owners. If we don't get it right, do we really want to have to go through this all over again in 5 years, having all taken all the books out about Land Law possible?

I completely agree that any new owner needs to be scrutinised thoroughly however it's not realistic for anyone to expect an owner to be happy with throwing millions away on a loss making football club. The whole point I was aiming at in this thread was that an owner with the kudos and acumen to get the club 100% in charge of the stadium will in the process go a huge way to making CCFC a financially sustainable and self supporting business. If that owner has experience in property development or any other relevant business then we can maximise the money made from a successful Ricoh to build a more successful CCFC.

The club concentrates on itself while the owner concentrates on both.

torchomatic · Jul 2, 2013

In theory. But maybe we wouldn't get that money. It might go straight into the back pocket of our new "saviour" property developer. It's a risk, isn't it? We could be going from the frying pan into the fire. More chance if property is a big factory, IMHO.

Brighton Sky Blue said:
The money going into the club from such a deal would make it in theory self reliant and capable of funding itself-that is what we want, isn't it?

torchomatic · Jul 2, 2013

In theory. But maybe we wouldn't get that money. It might go straight into the back pocket of our new "saviour" property developer. It's a risk, isn't it? We could be going from the frying pan into the fire. More chance if property is a big factory, IMHO.

Brighton Sky Blue said:
The money going into the club from such a deal would make it in theory self reliant and capable of funding itself-that is what we want, isn't it?

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2013

torchomatic said:
In theory. But maybe we wouldn't get that money. It might go straight into the back pocket of our new "saviour" property developer. It's a risk, isn't it? We could be going from the frying pan into the fire. More chance if property is a big factory, IMHO.

It's a risk that would need evaluating, of course. It would however be in the owner's interest for the club to get enough money to support itself so that they didn't have to fork out to fund losses.

torchomatic · Jul 2, 2013

Yes, true. Sorry, I meant factor not factory.

Brighton Sky Blue said:
It's a risk that would need evaluating, of course. It would however be in the owner's interest for the club to get enough money to support itself so that they didn't have to fork out to fund losses.

cashless · Jul 2, 2013

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Dont know where you got 30 from but why should it matter to you because you dont matter to me your skin crawling?

He got the number from my post as I was actually there, hence the frustration. Oh an 30 was being generous. The trust board is about 12 strong and a few in there were not sure what was going on (it was bizarrely held in the main bar area) or watching the tennis.

Paxman II · Jul 2, 2013

Football has changed. If football clubs want to survive then they must like any other business be willing to diversify, if the opportunity actually benefits the football club. Haskell is a property developer and as such clearly would have held talks about the land development with the council. Without that I doubt he would have got involved. owning (in some form) a slice of the stadium such as the 50% Higgs shares would have satisfied him in the short term, given he had the development contract.
Any football club owner be it SISU or a.n.other will need more than the deal ACL offered back when. There has to be a longer term plan for sustainability of the football club by controlling the money it can garner from it's supporters and that simple has to include rights to income streams from the stadium going to the football club if you expect a football club to play there surely?
But where are Elliott and Hoffman now? What are they doing currently to affect anything? I said before that why did Haskell not approach SISU directly and find a deal that satisfied an exit strategy for them? If Haskell and co built their interest in promises of development around the stadium and a slice of the Ricoh then was it not worthwhile to offer (and still is) a substantial amount to SISU to buy the football club? Maybe Haskell had his limits and simply would not offer anywhere near what SISU would leave for? SISU's so called debt is largely paper laced so would say £25m have done the job? £6m more on the Higgs share and then a contract for development? Was all this too much for the Hoffman (banker) Elliott, Haskell (wealthy developer) to ask?
The scale of SISU's task to recoup and exit is difficult to say the least. Can the council find a way to a solution that will assist SISU and see them gone? I know they shouldn't but what choices are there? No major football club at the Stadium would in all probability prove a disaster. Someone has to draw a line in the sand and come at it with fresh ideas or if SISU are to be believed - is it too late?

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2013

cashless said:
He got the number from my post as I was actually there, hence the frustration. Oh an 30 was being generous. The trust board is about 12 strong and a few in there were not sure what was going on (it was bizarrely held in the main bar area) or watching the tennis.

Then you my friend are a liar end of

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2013

torchomatic said:
In theory. But maybe we wouldn't get that money. It might go straight into the back pocket of our new "saviour" property developer. It's a risk, isn't it? We could be going from the frying pan into the fire. More chance if property is a big factory, IMHO.

And where do you think the money will go if Sisu get the Ricoh?

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 2, 2013

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Then you my friend are a liar end of

How many were there, then?

torchomatic · Jul 2, 2013

We don't know. It's a risk with whoever is "chosen". We'll never know with SISU now anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
And where do you think the money will go if Sisu get the Ricoh?

singers_pore · Jul 2, 2013

Grendel said:
No developer on earth would do that if there was a loss making football club it could load the debt onto.

If you knew anything about corporate finance or the tax code (which clearly you do not), you would not make such a dumb comment.

Due to the convexity in the tax code, companies have incentives to record interest payments in the profitable parts of their groups not the loss making parts. Moreover, a loss making company pays a much higher interest on debt than a profitable company. So this is another reason why a group would rather load debt onto a profitable company than a loss making company.

Don't worry if you don't understand. Some people on here are a lot smarter than you despite your protestations to the contrary.

Grendel · Jul 2, 2013

singers_pore said:
If you knew anything about corporate finance or the tax code (which clearly you do not), you would not make such a dumb comment.

Due to the convexity in the tax code, companies have incentives to record interest payments in the profitable parts of their groups not the loss making parts. Moreover, a loss making company pays a much higher interest on debt than a profitable company. So this is another reason why a group would rather load debt onto a profitable company than a loss making company.

Don't worry if you don't understand. Some people on here are a lot smarter than you despite your protestations to the contrary.

Oh I understand perfectly. The notion that anyone is going to make any capital purchase without funding it through loans placed against the club is living in cuckoo land.

What would you do write a cheque?

singers_pore · Jul 2, 2013

Grendel said:
Oh I understand perfectly. The notion that anyone is going to make any capital purchase without funding it through loans placed against the club is living in cuckoo land.

What would you do write a cheque?

Avoiding the key point as usual, Grendel. Clearly you don't understand or you wouldn't make such dumb comments. If you were one of my PhD students I would give you an F- (for effort).

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2013

singers_pore said:
Avoiding the key point as usual, Grendel. Clearly you don't understand or you wouldn't make such dumb comments. If you were one of my PhD students I would give you an F- (for effort).

Are you Dr or Professor Pore?

lordsummerisle · Jul 2, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Are you Dr or Professor Pore?

As long as it's not Piss.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
As long as it's not Piss.

Da dum tsssssh.

singers_pore · Jul 2, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Are you Dr or Professor?

Both. PhD from Oxford Uni + worked as a professor in UK, Hong Kong + Singapore.

Hence the moniker Singers_pore.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2013

singers_pore said:
Both. PhD from Oxford Uni + worked as a professor in UK, Hong Kong + Singapore.

Hence the moniker Singers_pore.

I guess they call you Drof. What subject?

Matty_CCFC · Jul 2, 2013

cashless said:
He got the number from my post as I was actually there, hence the frustration. Oh an 30 was being generous. The trust board is about 12 strong and a few in there were not sure what was going on (it was bizarrely held in the main bar area) or watching the tennis.

I was also present and I counted over 70 in bar area (i was at rear of room ), but I did not count those in Trust polo shirts or at top table. They have over 50 seats in the bar area so if only 30 how come most had to stand. You must be the rude guy who was at bar who left half through and never heard what PKH had to say.
They were give the downstairs room as upstairs ended up being to small, next time maybe they should hold it at the Ricoh.
For crying out loud, give them a break or else stand for election and do better?

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2013

Matty_CCFC said:
I was also present and I counted over 70 in bar area (i was at rear of room ), but I did not count those in Trust polo shirts or at top table. They have over 50 seats in the bar area so if only 30 how come most had to stand. You must be the rude guy who was at bar who left half through and never heard what PKH had to say.
They were give the downstairs room as upstairs ended up being to small, next time maybe they should hold it at the Ricoh.
For crying out loud, give them a break or else stand for election and do better?

It did seem pretty full and definitely more than 30. Uncle was keen to get food so missed the rest of what PWKH said.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
How many were there, then?

12............

singers_pore · Jul 2, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I guess they call you Drof. What subject?

Financial economics + accounting

Matty_CCFC · Jul 2, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
It did seem pretty full and definitely more than 30. Uncle was keen to get food so missed the rest of what PWKH said.

Some good comments today Mr Brighton.

I thought it was full, sat and counted as could not hear everything from back.
Felt it was an interesting evening and am pleased I paid my £1.
Only thing I would change is probably get a pa next time.

lordsummerisle · Jul 2, 2013

torchomatic said:
Blame those delightful NIMBYs in Stoneleigh for that. Flying from Cov on holiday used to be great.

I worked at Coventry Airport for quite a few years, we used to always get the noise complaints to us and we'd pass them through to the airport.

Once the Thomsonfly operation started the Bubbenhall and Stoneleigh Nimbys would call on the dot at about 0550 to make a noise complaint, quite organised it was.

Quite often though they didn't seem to realise just how often aircraft have technical problems or ATC delays and would be making the "noise" complaint when the aircraft hadn't even operated.

It's not like the B737 is particularly noisy anyway(think they operated 500 series from memory).

Really miss the DC6, they were noisy bastards!

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2013

Matty_CCFC said:
Some good comments today Mr Brighton.

I thought it was full, sat and counted as could not hear everything from back.
Felt it was an interesting evening and am pleased I paid my £1.
Only thing I would change is probably get a pa next time.

I had trouble hearing the guy off Corrie and when he moved his face was blocked by a pillar. I didn't agree with some of what people said but it was really refreshing to have people talk fondly of the club.

Paxman II · Jul 2, 2013

singers_pore said:
Financial economics + accounting

Perhaps you can give us your take then on what is the right financial road to take for:

1. SISU (and related companies/the football club)
2. ACL/Council/Higgs

Also do you see a financial option that both sides could find common ground to agree on?

SkyBlueSwiss · Jul 2, 2013

singers_pore said:
Financial economics + accounting

Ditto,
I taught Financial and Management Accounting at university to bachelor and masters degree students. Some think it is a very dry subject, but I made it interesting and got voted favourite Professor three years running. I enjoyed teaching adults, especially the Masters students. They wanted to be there and learn!

SkyBlueSwiss · Jul 2, 2013

Paxman II said:
Perhaps you can give us your take then on what is the right financial road to take for:

1. SISU (and related companies/the football club)
2. ACL/Council/Higgs

Also do you see a financial option that both sides could find common ground to agree on?

Paxman;
I will give you my take on it. I DO NOT KNOW !
As I have stated before, I do not understand what on Earth SISU are up to. I cannot see what their end game has been in all of this. Did they really buy us by mistake and then make a series of appalling errors to reduce us to where we are now, or was it really all planned and they are exactly where they want it to be? I cannot for the life of me see why or what the end game is. All I know is that they appear to have little or no interest in football or our club and the sooner they go the better.
Maybe Singers_pore has a better take on what has happened?

dadgad · Jul 2, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
Ditto,
I taught Financial and Management Accounting at university to bachelor and masters degree students. Some think it is a very dry subject, but I made it interesting and got voted favourite Professor three years running. I enjoyed teaching adults, especially the Masters students. They wanted to be there and learn!

So, when commenting on Financial irregs., unlike those idiots who disagree with you, you actually know what you are talking about.
Thought so.

SkyblueBazza · Jul 2, 2013

dadgad said:
So, when commenting on Financial irregs., unlike those idiots who disagree with you, you actually know what you are talking about.
Thought so.

None of us actually really know what we are talking about. Not filing accounts, splitting the club into two - one side of which has no assets...which are then sold for an apparently substantially higher bid than the other bidders is simply unfathomable without access to the accounts & legal documentation involved. Everyone seems to me be just speculating - accurately or otherwise.

Paxman II · Jul 2, 2013

Skyblueswiss: I think you are correct to assume they bought us and then made errors which have ultimately got us here to where we are today. I believe they have agreed as much and have stated they intend correcting those mistakes which started last season and the year before that as they cut cost and started to balance the income and losses, getting those under more sustainable control, as they cut away some deadwood in playing staff and other areas of the clubs expenditure as I recall? How the hell we are 'supposedly' in such debt with figures of 70m stated around here is therefore incredulous?

But it's clear they want to sort it out (well little choice really) and to that end they have to have some thoughts on the road they are taking?
You therefore must have some thoughts on how they might go about this?

The move to another stadium some say is not viable and doesn't add up? I tend to disagree with this. What's your view?

Grendel · Jul 2, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
Ditto,
I taught Financial and Management Accounting at university to bachelor and masters degree students. Some think it is a very dry subject, but I made it interesting and got voted favourite Professor three years running. I enjoyed teaching adults, especially the Masters students. They wanted to be there and learn!

Gosh! I so wish I was one if those students Sky Blue Swiss I really think I could have enhanced my life and been a better and more successful person. Drat! I am so envious!

procdoc · Jul 2, 2013

Grendel said:
Gosh! I so wish I was one if those students Sky Blue Swiss I really think I could have enhanced my life and been a better and more successful person. Drat! I am so envious!

And you wonder why people think you are a grade A dickhead?

Grendel · Jul 2, 2013

procdoc said:
And you wonder why people think you are a grade A dickhead?

Now that is most uncalled for Procdoc. There may be children reading the forum. Wash your mouth out.

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