Pest exterminators enter the Wasps Nest? (1 Viewer)

Grendel · May 22, 2016

Although a thread has opened up on this as it's centred on the Butts it's subjected to the usual irrelevant droning about ground capacity.

There is a strong suggestion from some sources that wasps are not prepared to be involved in any reasonable negotiation at all about our stay at the Ricoh. This, frankly, to me is entirely believable. There is no benefit at all for wasps to have a competitor there other than initially to prevent any negative publicity.

So, if true, the club is being forced out in two years. This would explain the current flurry around media activity as PR machines prepare to do battle. If rumours are true this is nothing to do with court cases or any other factor other than the fact Wasps want the Ricoh as a Rugby stadium alone and see no commercial advantage in the football club.

If this is the case will people's views change? Will those who defend wasps change views? Will people unite behind the club and actively demand the Butts project gets focus. If people really want a larger ground are they ok if this is 10-20 miles away.

As I said before worrying times.

Otis · May 22, 2016

Grendel said:
Although a thread has opened up on this as it's centred on the Butts it's subjected to the usual irrelevant droning about ground capacity.

There is a strong suggestion from some sources that wasps are not prepared to be involved in any reasonable negotiation at all about our stay at the Ricoh. This, frankly, to me is entirely believable. There is no benefit at all for wasps to have a competitor there other than initially to prevent any negative publicity.

So, if true, the club is being forced out in two years. This would explain the current flurry around media activity as PR machines prepare to do battle. If rumours are true this is nothing to do with court cases or any other factor other than the fact Wasps want the Ricoh as a Rugby stadium alone and see no commercial advantage in the football club.

If this is the case will people's views change? Will those who defend wasps change views? Will people unite behind the club and actively demand the Butts project gets focus. If people really want a larger ground are they ok if this is 10-20 miles away.

As I said before worrying times.

A lot of conjecture there though.

If it has to be the Butts, it has to be the Butts, but unless it CAN be expanded I think we may be sentencing ourselves to a long term future in League One at the very best.

Of course it is right and proper for the club to explore every avenue and they should continue to do that even with the Butts on the table.

Would be interested to see what Wasps have to say in all this. All very schtum at the moment.

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Otis · May 22, 2016

Also, on a side note, wouldn't Wasps being happy with us buggering off leave it open for it to come back and bite them on the bum in time?

IF it were to be a 25,000 seater stadium at the Butts, doesn't that offer up an opportunity for Cov rugby to grow and be a threat to Wasps?

Personally, I would love Cov to become bigger than Wasps. Think that would be very satisfying indeed.

dongonzalos · May 22, 2016

Grendel said:
Although a thread has opened up on this as it's centred on the Butts it's subjected to the usual irrelevant droning about ground capacity.

There is a strong suggestion from some sources that wasps are not prepared to be involved in any reasonable negotiation at all about our stay at the Ricoh. This, frankly, to me is entirely believable. There is no benefit at all for wasps to have a competitor there other than initially to prevent any negative publicity.

So, if true, the club is being forced out in two years. This would explain the current flurry around media activity as PR machines prepare to do battle. If rumours are true this is nothing to do with court cases or any other factor other than the fact Wasps want the Ricoh as a Rugby stadium alone and see no commercial advantage in the football club.

If this is the case will people's views change? Will those who defend wasps change views? Will people unite behind the club and actively demand the Butts project gets focus. If people really want a larger ground are they ok if this is 10-20 miles away.

As I said before worrying times.

I would get behind a ground elsewhere that can eventually take 30k capacity
I would also get behind one that starts with 18k-23k capacity for us now and when we are in the championship.
I take it Wasps don't make any money out of us been at the Ricoh then?
I thought they were milking us as a cash cow?

dongonzalos · May 22, 2016

Otis said:
A lot of conjecture there though.

If it has to be the Butts, it has to be the Butts, but unless it CAN be expanded I think we may be sentencing ourselves to a long term future in League One at the very best.

Of course it is right and proper for the club to explore every avenue and they should continue to do that even with the Butts on the table.

Would be interested to see what Wasps have to say in all this. All very schtum at the moment.

Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk

Agree with all of the above, I think Wasps have already come out and said they want us to stay at the Ricoh, but understand we have to do what's best for us.
Maybe they don't want us to go but don't see a commercial advantage to having us there if they agree to all 17 points.
Anyone know what the 17 points are?

Samo · May 22, 2016

The Butts, new stadium 10 miles away, anything but the fucking Ricoh which I hope is struck my a small meteor and completely destroyed! (after we leave of course)

Grendel · May 22, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Agree with all of the above, I think Wasps have already come out and said they want us to stay at the Ricoh, but understand we have to do what's best for us.
Maybe they don't want us to go but don't see a commercial advantage to having us there if they agree to all 17 points.
Anyone know what the 17 points are?

So wasps issue a bland press release saying they'd like us to stay and you'd believe that?

Frankly if your attitude is representative of the majority of fans we won't have a club in the City soon and we won't deserve one.

Philosoraptor · May 22, 2016

The Ricoh is the prize. Always has been. Always will be.

dongonzalos · May 22, 2016

Grendel said:
So wasps issue a bland press release saying they'd like us to stay and you'd believe that?

Frankly if your attitude is representative of the majority of fans we won't have a club in the City soon and we won't deserve one.

It's all the fans fault.

You never answered my question is the club no longer a cash cow for Wasps.

Also I just telling Otis what Wasps said, as he thought they have stayed quite over it all.
Like you I have no idea what their opinions are.
However it would be pretty silly to think they don't want CCFC at the Ricoh. We pay them money and they get half of our matchdays revenue.
Unless we are somehow costing them more than we make why wouldn't they want us there.

Otis · May 22, 2016

Philosorapter said:
The Ricoh is the prize. Always has been. Always will be.

Right, here's the plan.

Go for the Butts, but make Cov rugby very much the big player in all this. Put all the focus on Cov rugby. Expand the ground, get Cov bigger than Wasps, Wasps fook off and we pick up the Ricoh, leaving Cov with a shiny new Butts and two top sporting clubs in the city.

It's a winner!!!

Nick · May 22, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Agree with all of the above, I think Wasps have already come out and said they want us to stay at the Ricoh, but understand we have to do what's best for us.
Maybe they don't want us to go but don't see a commercial advantage to having us there if they agree to all 17 points.
Anyone know what the 17 points are?

Didn't Wasps also promise Cov Rugby the world?

They can just spin whatever shit they want and it gets accepted, same as the council. People see them as against SISU, so it means they get the pass.

Otis · May 22, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Agree with all of the above, I think Wasps have already come out and said they want us to stay at the Ricoh, but understand we have to do what's best for us.
Maybe they don't want us to go but don't see a commercial advantage to having us there if they agree to all 17 points.
Anyone know what the 17 points are?

The ones we threw away against Swindon and Walsall and Doncaster and Oldham, Rochdale, Scunthorpe and Chesterfield?

dongonzalos · May 22, 2016

Nick said:
Didn't Wasps also promise Cov Rugby the world?

They can just spin whatever shit they want and it gets accepted, same as the council. People see them as against SISU, so it means they get the pass.

As I said to Grendel, I was just telling Otis what they have said about this.
Like the council
Like SISU they are just as capable of making statements that don't add up.
however why would they not want us at the Ricoh, we earn them money

Grendel · May 22, 2016

dongonzalos said:
It's all the fans fault.

You never answered my question is the club no longer a cash cow for Wasps.

Also I just telling Otis what Wasps said, as he thought they have stayed quite over it all.
Like you I have no idea what their opinions are.
However it would be pretty silly to think they don't want CCFC at the Ricoh. We pay them money and they get half of our matchdays revenue.
Unless we are somehow costing them more than we make why wouldn't they want us there.

They will not want us there as they see us as a threat. How on earth of we a cash cow? They get a small rent and a high proportion of small margin food and beverage.

They want the Ricoh as I'm led to understand to be a home of rugby. They believe this will be commercially beneficial as it can lead to them having internationals if both sports and become a major venue as a home of rugby. The football club is a distraction in league one and if it's fortunes get better a major problem to the football as a sport having a stronger identity.

The negotiations are as I believe failing badly. Wasps want a huge increase in rent, no concessions at all on other incomes and an increase on rent if there is promotion. It's unworkable but they will of course issue a statement saying CCFC reject the offer and idiots like you will just swallow it.

I'm not being funny but you do seem a bit dumb at times. If I was running them I would want the club out especially as the public will accept the PR crap I then come out with. It's not about revenue on a small scale it's about mission statements of being the biggest club in Europe - that's not achieved if the spectre of a predator from a far bigger sport is lurking in the same nest.

Hobo · May 22, 2016

Nick said:
Didn't Wasps also promise Cov Rugby the world?

They can just spin whatever shit they want and it gets accepted, same as the council. People see them as against SISU, so it means they get the pass.

No.

Calista · May 22, 2016

Grendel said:
Although a thread has opened up on this as it's centred on the Butts it's subjected to the usual irrelevant droning about ground capacity.

There is a strong suggestion from some sources that wasps are not prepared to be involved in any reasonable negotiation at all about our stay at the Ricoh. This, frankly, to me is entirely believable. There is no benefit at all for wasps to have a competitor there other than initially to prevent any negative publicity.
So, if true, the club is being forced out in two years. This would explain the current flurry around media activity as PR machines prepare to do battle. If rumours are true this is nothing to do with court cases or any other factor other than the fact Wasps want the Ricoh as a Rugby stadium alone and see no commercial advantage in the football club.
If this is the case will people's views change? Will those who defend wasps change views? Will people unite behind the club and actively demand the Butts project gets focus. If people really want a larger ground are they ok if this is 10-20 miles away.
As I said before worrying times.

As you know, my attitude so far has not been anti-Wasps, because I think many of the arguments against them are based on false premises (I don’t propose to go through it all again).

However, if they take an unreasonable stance which forces CCFC out, yes I would change my mind. And (as I was saying quite a while back when everyone was dismissing the Butts as a fantasy), in those circumstances I would be happy to get behind a move to the city centre, providing the new ground befits our club.

Got to agree with you, worrying times indeed. Because while I’d like to see us in a stunning new stadium (20K+, fans tight to the pitch), I have zero confidence in our owners to deliver that. I fear it might be a cheap job and yet another amateur cock-up which takes us even further down.

dongonzalos · May 22, 2016

Grendel said:
They will not want us there as they see us as a threat. How on earth of we a cash cow? They get a small rent and a high proportion of small margin food and beverage.

They want the Ricoh as I'm led to understand to be a home of rugby. They believe this will be commercially beneficial as it can lead to them having internationals if both sports and become a major venue as a home of rugby. The football club is a distraction in league one and if it's fortunes get better a major problem to the football as a sport having a stronger identity.

The negotiations are as I believe failing badly. Wasps want a huge increase in rent, no concessions at all on other incomes and an increase on rent if there is promotion. It's unworkable but they will of course issue a statement saying CCFC reject the offer and idiots like you will just swallow it.

I'm not being funny but you do seem a bit dumb at times. If I was running them I would want the club out especially as the public will accept the PR crap I then come out with. It's not about revenue on a small scale it's about mission statements of being the biggest club in Europe - that's not achieved if the spectre of a predator from a far bigger sport is lurking in the same nest.

As soon as you start calling people dumb and idiots
It's quite clear you are struggling and your point is a load of tosh.
Overnight you have gone from Wasps feeding off us and they can't survive with their plan unless we are part of it.
To them chasing us out the door because we are a threat to them.

Grendel · May 22, 2016

dongonzalos said:
As soon as you start calling people dumb and idiots
It's quite clear you are struggling and your point is a load of tosh.
Overnight you have gone from Wasps feeding off us and they can't survive with there plan unless we are part of it.
To them chasing us out the door because we are a threat to them.

No one has said wasps are feeding off us though have they?

Also one other poster has heard the same rumour - and yes if you honestly believe they wouldn't want the club out to achieve this then you have your head in the sand.

If you seriously believe we matter to them one iota then you are at best very gullible.

tisza · May 22, 2016

i fear Wasps just think there isn't enough ways for CCFC to make enough money from a joint venture 15k stadium to make them take it seriously. Hopefully some more concrete plans will convince otherwise.
I'm not convinced financially that Wasps wouldn't miss us. If the figures CA was using are correct there is a significant sum going into ACL in f&b and parking alone. They can't believe that they are going to find 23 events a year (number of home league games) that are going to produce similar levels of income.
Also I don't see a situation where Wasps would be happy with a genuine rugby rival being given the financial opportunity to emerge.
I'm genuinely not sure whether BPA is the correct solution for us or whether we're grasping at straws. A few extra acres of land to allow more commercial opprtunities would make it stronger. Maybe it's just joint ventures make me nervous seeing as how the ACL turned out.

dongonzalos · May 22, 2016

This is starting to smack of typical SISU negotiating tactics.
Negotiations with Wasps are not going well.
When negotiation with Higgs and the Council were not going well.
We were going to build a new stadium.
It will be in the Coventry area but not Coventry itself.
It will compete with the Ricoh over events exhibitions ect.
Now negotiations with Wasps are not going well.
We are moving the an area that will be popular with fans.
It happens to be another Rugby club. One if it ever grew could take rugby fans away from Wasps.
We will compete with the Ricoh of conferences ect ect.
Just wish they had said we are building an 18k stadium
With a view to expanding to 30k.
Then I wouldn't have wasted my time with a single post in this issue.
Other than to say great then wait and see what long deal we do with Wasps.

stupot07 · May 22, 2016

dongonzalos said:
It's all the fans fault.

You never answered my question is the club no longer a cash cow for Wasps.

Also I just telling Otis what Wasps said, as he thought they have stayed quite over it all.
Like you I have no idea what their opinions are.
However it would be pretty silly to think they don't want CCFC at the Ricoh. We pay them money and they get half of our matchdays revenue.
Unless we are somehow costing them more than we make why wouldn't they want us there.

Half? They got 85% of the F&Bs and 19 of the 24 homes games parking receipts. But this is more than about money to wasps this is about them building a brand and a fan base, they could write off what they earn from us by stealing 2-3k potential fan base and corning the market share of sponsorship

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Brylowes · May 22, 2016

Grendel said:
They will not want us there as they see us as a threat. How on earth of we a cash cow? They get a small rent and a high proportion of small margin food and beverage.

They want the Ricoh as I'm led to understand to be a home of rugby. They believe this will be commercially beneficial as it can lead to them having internationals if both sports and become a major venue as a home of rugby. The football club is a distraction in league one and if it's fortunes get better a major problem to the football as a sport having a stronger identity.

The negotiations are as I believe failing badly. Wasps want a huge increase in rent, no concessions at all on other incomes and an increase on rent if there is promotion. It's unworkable but they will of course issue a statement saying CCFC reject the offer and idiots like you will just swallow it.

I'm not being funny but you do seem a bit dumb at times. If I was running them I would want the club out especially as the public will accept the PR crap I then come out with. It's not about revenue on a small scale it's about mission statements of being the biggest club in Europe - that's not achieved if the spectre of a predator from a far bigger sport is lurking in the same nest.

What The high proportion of food and beverage is a small margin, that can't be right

We moved Fucking stadium because of them.

SkyBlueCharlie · May 22, 2016

Another Wasps/poliltics thread...I thought that there was supposed to be a sub-forum for those or was that just a bit of political spin?

chiefdave · May 22, 2016

Brylowes said:
What The high proportion of food and beverage is a small margin, that can't be right

Aren't we tied in to using certain suppliers as ACL have done deals with them, and received payment for those deals? That means they can charge us pretty much what they like as we can't go elsewhere so when, for example, we buy F&B in for corporate there is little room to add a margin.

Brylowes · May 22, 2016

Calista said:
As you know, my attitude so far has not been anti-Wasps, because I think many of the arguments against them are based on false premises (I don’t propose to go through it all again).

However, if they take an unreasonable stance which forces CCFC out, yes I would change my mind. And (as I was saying quite a while back when everyone was dismissing the Butts as a fantasy), in those circumstances I would be happy to get behind a move to the city centre, providing the new ground befits our club.

Got to agree with you, worrying times indeed. Because while I’d like to see us in a stunning new stadium (20K+, fans tight to the pitch), I have zero confidence in our owners to deliver that. I fear it might be a cheap job and yet another amateur cock-up which takes us even further down.

Yep agree with this and I to would back a move, but we need to know what SISU have asked for .
What are the 17 points , we could ask anything we want and put wasps in an impossible
position where they have no choice but to show us the door.
One thing I definitely won't do is take the word of SISU.

Nick · May 22, 2016

Brylowes said:
One thing I definitely won't do is take the word of SISU.

So what will you believe? The articles in the Telegraph from wasps saying they had no choice?

Colin Steins Smile · May 22, 2016

Otis said:
A lot of conjecture there though.

If it has to be the Butts, it has to be the Butts, but unless it CAN be expanded I think we may be sentencing ourselves to a long term future in League One at the very best.

Of course it is right and proper for the club to explore every avenue and they should continue to do that even with the Butts on the table.

Would be interested to see what Wasps have to say in all this. All very schtum at the moment.

Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk

This seems very odd. My question is: "Why would Wasps want to jettison a guaranteed revenue stream"? It does not make any commercial sense....especially as all operators of stadium want to maximise the usage.

Brylowes · May 22, 2016

Nick said:
So what will you believe? The articles in the Telegraph from wasps saying they had no choice?

No they could release a statement revealing the 17 points asked for.
But from past experience I won't take the word of SISU.
But I take it you will?

Nick · May 22, 2016

Brylowes said:
No they could release a statement revealing the 17 points asked for.
But from past experience I won't take the word of SISU.
But I take it you will?

As with everything I'll try and see what's been said by all side and try and judge what could be closest to the truth.

Brylowes · May 22, 2016

chiefdave said:
Aren't we tied in to using certain suppliers as ACL have done deals with them, and received payment for those deals? That means they can charge us pretty much what they like as we can't go elsewhere so when, for example, we buy F&B in for corporate there is little room to add a margin.

Yeah compas isn't it , they were here well before we left for Sixfields.
But it was still about the F&B

Brylowes · May 22, 2016

Colin Steins Smile said:
This seems very odd. My question is: "Why would Wasps want to jettison a guaranteed revenue stream"? It does not make any commercial sense....especially as all operators of stadium want to maximise the usage.

Exactly some on here aren't convinced they can survive what with the huge bond repayment's
and the novelty wearing off hence crowds dwindling, funny the same people now think they can
aford to kick out there most hi-profile tenant.

Brylowes · May 22, 2016

Nick said:
As with everything I'll try and see what's been said by all side and try and judge what could be closest to the truth.

I'm not even gonna answer that . LOL

dongonzalos · May 22, 2016

Colin Steins Smile said:
This seems very odd. My question is: "Why would Wasps want to jettison a guaranteed revenue stream"? It does not make any commercial sense....especially as all operators of stadium want to maximise the usage.

It would be very silly of them to do that.
Just because negotiations are not going well.
That does not translate into Wasos want us out no matter what.
Are we really a threat to them, are we stealing potential rugby fans off them or commercial deals.
If we go elsewhere isn't that then a reality that we may? As oppose to if we do it whikst at the Ricoh they get something out of it as well.

dongonzalos · May 22, 2016

stupot07 said:
Half? They got 85% of the F&Bs and 19 of the 24 homes games parking receipts. But this is more than about money to wasps this is about them building a brand and a fan base, they could write off what they earn from us by stealing 2-3k potential fan base and corning the market share of sponsorship

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

So if we are forced out by Wasps to another location, the Butts.
They will gain 2-3k additional fan base . That they wouldn't have if we have stayed at the Ricoh?
Stu I know you despise Wasps but you are normally incredibly rational.
Have a bit of a think about what you are saying.
Step back from it put your hatred of Wasps away and just look at what you are suggesting.
If the people running Wasps have business plans like this. Then I think we have nothing to worry about they will be in administration within two years!!!

Colin Steins Smile · May 22, 2016

dongonzalos said:
It would be very silly of them to do that.
Just because negotiations are not going well.
That does not translate into Wasos want us out no matter what.
Are we really a threat to them, are we stealing potential rugby fans off them or commercial deals.
If we go elsewhere isn't that then a reality that we may? As oppose to if we do it whikst at the Ricoh they get something out of it as well.

Exactly - I cannot see any viable reason why Wasps would want CCFC to cease being a tenant. There is a minimal cost to Wasps by CCFC sharing the stadium.

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