Pass back rule (1 Viewer)

sw88 · Feb 19, 2012

When did this come into place? I recorded our 87 cup highlights on ESPN the other night and have just watched them. Being only 23 I wasn't here for the actual event and since then I've only ever seen the goals; never any of the rest of the match (might get to watch the whole thing one day). Couldn't help but notice that in the highlights there were a fair few back passes from defenders to keepers where the keeper picked it up. I can see why they no longer allow it; imagine players using back passes nowadays as a form of time wasting! It would get abused!

rob9872 · Feb 19, 2012

How do you think Liverpool won 18 titles? The masters of wasting time and this back to Grob or Clem were their forte

Houchens Head · Feb 20, 2012

rob9872 said:
How do you think Liverpool won 18 titles? The masters of wasting time and this back to Grob or Clem were their forte

No more than ANY team who are winning, taking the ball to the opposing corner flag and holding it up there! No difference really! If a team wants to hold up play because they are a goal up with only a couple of minutes left, they will always find a way to do so. Liverpool were no worse than most teams at time wasting IMO.

Houchens Head · Feb 20, 2012

sw88 said:
When did this come into place? I recorded our 87 cup highlights on ESPN the other night and have just watched them.

Had to re-read this! I thought you meant you watched 87 different cup highlights! Didn't know we had so many!!

Disorganised1 · Feb 20, 2012

The first rule was that keepers could only hold the ball for 5 seconds, this led to keepers dropping the ball dribbling it for a bit aand then picking it up when a forward charged in.
This was then changed to have the ball under his control, but led to a lot of questionable decisions, and so we came to the pass back rule. I did look this up a while ago - so the answer is on this forum somewhere _ possibly on the old-timers thread.

rob9872 · Feb 20, 2012

Disorganised1 said:
The first rule was that keepers could only hold the ball for 5 seconds, this led to keepers dropping the ball dribbling it for a bit aand then picking it up when a forward charged in.
This was then changed to have the ball under his control, but led to a lot of questionable decisions, and so we came to the pass back rule. I did look this up a while ago - so the answer is on this forum somewhere _ possibly on the old-timers thread.

I think it was 4 seconds back then but I also think it is still in place for something like 6 seconds and yet refs never pull up keepers on these days. Not totally sure so don't shoot me if I've missed the change.

kg82 · Feb 20, 2012

It came in in the early 90's, pretty sure it was the first season of the Premiership but can't be certain. I was a keeper so I remember vividly being told about it - thought they were having me on!

scroobiustom · Feb 20, 2012

The actual rule according to the FIFA handbook issued to us ref's (nerd) Law 12. "An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a goalkeeper: controls the ball with his hands for more than six seconds before releasing it from his possession"

hope it helps lol

Houchens Head · Feb 20, 2012

scroobiustom said:
The actual rule according to the FIFA handbook issued to us ref's (nerd) Law 12. "An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a goalkeeper: controls the ball with his hands for more than six seconds before releasing it from his possession"

hope it helps lol

But this rule isn't exactly enforced is it? Once again, inconsistency among referees and rules!

rob9872 · Feb 20, 2012

Ty Scroob, thought it was still in place. Can't remmeber the last time I saw soemone picked up on this and yet I bet if you count that both goalkeepers next week will be guilty at some point during the game.

scroobiustom · Feb 20, 2012

To an extent it is, the discrepancy occurs from when the ball is formally in the control of the keeper, if a player prevents the drop kick for example then he is not formally in control, most ref's I find tend to just walk backwards for six steps then if the ball hasn't left the keepers grasp warn him.

be harsh to give a free kick every time when not every decision is as black and white and that.

Gray · Feb 20, 2012

first season was fun remember Seaman making a few mistakes, think Oggy made a few as well

remember us getting a few free kicks in the penalty area first few years, never seemed to score them though, suppose its hard with 8 blokes standing on the goal line,

don't seem to see that many mistakes now though..or picking up by mistake

Nick · Feb 20, 2012

I remember the Stoke goalie doing it from a throw in when that rule was brought in!

Brighton Sky Blue · Feb 20, 2012

Houchens Head said:
But this rule isn't exactly enforced is it? Once again, inconsistency among referees and rules!

As a referee myself, this 'Why are referees so inconsistent!' is pretty damn annoying to always be hearing. Every decision a referee makes is done in his opinion-so, 'Did I think that foul was reckless (booking), or malicious (sending off)?' is the sort of stuff that goes through the ref's head. You get one chance, one perspective, and a few seconds to make your mind up, and at the top level when there's tens of thousands screaming for a card it's an insane level of scrutiny to be under.
The likes of Robbie Savage openly slating refs when he's never done a game in his life does little to help the matter either-especially when he patronises others for never having played pro football.

/rant

rob9872 · Feb 20, 2012

Inconsistency in decisions I think we can handle (however infuriating they can sometimes be). Inconsistency in the ability to apply the rules are what upsets most fans I think.

Rules like the back pass, off-side, foul throws, keepers holding onto the ball, injury time, time wasting and many many more are matters of fact and shouldn't be open to interpretation.

Referees often have my sympathy for not being allowed to use the common sense approach, but never for glaring errors on matters of fact. Until there is form of re-dress or technology applied, the debate will go on.

Brighton Sky Blue · Feb 20, 2012

rob9872 said:
Inconsistency in decisions I think we can handle (however infuriating they can sometimes be). Inconsistency in the ability to apply the rules are what upsets most fans I think.

Rules like the back pass, off-side, foul throws, keepers holding onto the ball, injury time, time wasting and many many more are matters of fact and shouldn't be open to interpretation.

Referees often have my sympathy for not being allowed to use the common sense approach, but never for glaring errors on matters of fact. Until there is form of re-dress or technology applied, the debate will go on.

Of the examples you've given, all are subjective to varying degrees-in the case of offside, marginal off-side decisions are probably the hardest to call in top level football simply because the play is so fast. Like I said, unless you've at least done a few games in the middle or on the line and seen it from the other side, you'll see what I'm getting at.
What it does show though, is that FIFA have got to put some weight behind their support for officials-leaving them to fend off the abuse of thousands by themselves is not 'Respect'.

Sick Boy · Feb 20, 2012

Isn't there a three step rule as well?

sw88 · Feb 20, 2012

Sick Boy said:
Isn't there a three step rule as well?

There was. It's now supposed to be a 6 second rule where the keeper cannot hold the ball for longer than 6 seconds but this is never enforced!! Don't think I've ever seen this go punished by a ref!

Houchens Head · Feb 20, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
As a referee myself, this 'Why are referees so inconsistent!' is pretty damn annoying to always be hearing. Every decision a referee makes is done in his opinion-so, 'Did I think that foul was reckless (booking), or malicious (sending off)?' is the sort of stuff that goes through the ref's head. You get one chance, one perspective, and a few seconds to make your mind up, and at the top level when there's tens of thousands screaming for a card it's an insane level of scrutiny to be under.
The likes of Robbie Savage openly slating refs when he's never done a game in his life does little to help the matter either-especially when he patronises others for never having played pro football.

/rant

Not sure you grasped the intention of my post BSB. What I was saying was, that the RULES of the game need to be implemented consistently - not instant decisions, which I actually agree with you on. The rule about goal keepers holding on to a ball for more than six seconds is a RULE which is never questioned in any game. It is quite easy to count to 6 in your head, maybe even allowing 7 or even 8 seconds, but this just doesn't happen. This doesn't take an "instant decision" does it?

Brighton Sky Blue · Feb 21, 2012

Houchens Head said:
Not sure you grasped the intention of my post BSB. What I was saying was, that the RULES of the game need to be implemented consistently - not instant decisions, which I actually agree with you on. The rule about goal keepers holding on to a ball for more than six seconds is a RULE which is never questioned in any game. It is quite easy to count to 6 in your head, maybe even allowing 7 or even 8 seconds, but this just doesn't happen. This doesn't take an "instant decision" does it?

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here HH? In any case, one thing I can't stand refs doing is giving ghost fouls in the box at corners and free kicks for 'impeding the goalkeeper', on the premise that one might have happened. It's lazy officiating, and not something we should be seeing in the pro game.

Houchens Head · Feb 21, 2012

An "instant decision" is when a ref has to do just that! e.g. did that player handle the ball intentionally? Was that tackle aimed at the ball or player? Was he just marginally offside? Did the ball actually cross the line? etc. etc.
A RULE which doesn't take an instant decision: Is it a direct free kick or an indirect free kick, 2 yellow cards = 1 red therefore sending off, a goalkeeper should not hold onto the ball for more than 6 seconds. etc etc.
Not rocket science is it?

Brighton Sky Blue · Feb 21, 2012

Houchens Head said:
An "instant decision" is when a ref has to do just that! e.g. did that player handle the ball intentionally? Was that tackle aimed at the ball or player? Was he just marginally offside? Did the ball actually cross the line? etc. etc.
A RULE which doesn't take an instant decision: Is it a direct free kick or an indirect free kick, 2 yellow cards = 1 red therefore sending off, a goalkeeper should not hold onto the ball for more than 6 seconds. etc etc.
Not rocket science is it?

It's Tuesday morning, I'm not well, and I'm in a lab that's got solvent vapours left right and centre-give me a break!

Houchens Head · Feb 21, 2012

Mmmmmmmmm ...... soooolllvent vapours!!!!

Brighton Sky Blue · Feb 21, 2012

Houchens Head said:
Mmmmmmmmm ...... soooolllvent vapours!!!!

'Methanol to the left of me, acetone to my right-here I am, passing out on the floor!'

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