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Panorama - post office scandal (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Sky Blue Pete
  • Start date Apr 25, 2022
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clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 4, 2024
  • #36
Nick said:
Just watched the itv doc (linked to the drama).

It's absolutely shocking. To add to it, the woman in charge of the post office got honours for her services to the post office.

There should be some of the execs doing prison time and all of the post masters should have their money back and then some.
Click to expand...

She should be shot. She's deliberately ruined so many lives.
 
Reactions: Astute
A

AJB1983

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #37
Ive not seen the documentary or drama, but aware of the story obviously….so maybe what I’m about to say has been mentioned so please comment if I’ve got this wrong… but What I can not fathom is how no-one at the time, be it in the post office or police thought “hang on, there’s 700 postmasters all at it? Not just one or two bad eggs? Is this right? Are we sure it’s not the computers?”

Common sense surely would suggest that something like this couldn’t possibly have happened on such a scale without being a mental co-ordinated serious organised crime issue?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #38
AJB1983 said:
Ive not seen the documentary or drama, but aware of the story obviously….so maybe what I’m about to say has been mentioned so please comment if I’ve got this wrong… but What I can not fathom is how no-one at the time, be it in the post office or police thought “hang on, there’s 700 postmasters all at it? Not just one or two bad eggs? Is this right? Are we sure it’s not the computers?”

Common sense surely would suggest that something like this couldn’t possibly have happened on such a scale without being a mental co-ordinated serious organised crime issue?
Click to expand...

They kept telling the individual post masters that they were the only ones it was happening to even though they knew it wasn't the case.
They were protecting their expensive new software package.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #39
AJB1983 said:
Ive not seen the documentary or drama, but aware of the story obviously….so maybe what I’m about to say has been mentioned so please comment if I’ve got this wrong… but What I can not fathom is how no-one at the time, be it in the post office or police thought “hang on, there’s 700 postmasters all at it? Not just one or two bad eggs? Is this right? Are we sure it’s not the computers?”

Common sense surely would suggest that something like this couldn’t possibly have happened on such a scale without being a mental co-ordinated serious organised crime issue?
Click to expand...
Be great news for the genuinely 1 or 2 bad eggs that got off with the collective on a technicality. Every cloud
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #40
clint van damme said:
They kept telling the individual post masters that they were the only ones it was happening to even though they knew it wasn't the case.
They were protecting their expensive new software package.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's the thing, it was before social media so couldn't just go on the post master group and ask.

It wasn't until that journalist realised he had heard the story somewhere else from people writing to him. (Old school)
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #41
Nick said:
Yeah that's the thing, it was before social media so couldn't just go on the post master group and ask.

It wasn't until that journalist realised he had heard the story somewhere else from people writing to him. (Old school)
Click to expand...

The thing is, if some little scrote had caused this much misery for so many people there'd be calls to lock him up for life.

Vennells is facing calls to have her CBE taken off her, it fucking stinks.
 
Reactions: RedSalmon, Astute, Sky Blue Pete and 1 other person

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #42
fujitsu keep getting post office IT contracts as well
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #43
David O'Day said:
fujitsu keep getting post office IT contracts as well
Click to expand...

They still use Horizon to this day.
 
A

AJB1983

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #44
Fushitsu
 
A

AJB1983

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #45
clint van damme said:
They kept telling the individual post masters that they were the only ones it was happening to even though they knew it wasn't the case.
They were protecting their expensive new software package.
Click to expand...
Bad that isn’t it… wankers.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
X

xcraigx

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #46
Anyone who has experience of the post office user interface will know it looks like it was made as part of a GCSE students coursework in the late 90s. Seems the coding was too.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #47
AJB1983 said:
Ive not seen the documentary or drama, but aware of the story obviously….so maybe what I’m about to say has been mentioned so please comment if I’ve got this wrong… but What I can not fathom is how no-one at the time, be it in the post office or police thought “hang on, there’s 700 postmasters all at it? Not just one or two bad eggs? Is this right? Are we sure it’s not the computers?”

Common sense surely would suggest that something like this couldn’t possibly have happened on such a scale without being a mental co-ordinated serious organised crime issue?
Click to expand...
Absolutely right
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #48
clint van damme said:
They kept telling the individual post masters that they were the only ones it was happening to even though they knew it wasn't the case.
They were protecting their expensive new software package.
Click to expand...
Makes you really angry that they value the reputation of their software package than the actual human beings they employ.

Even then it's mind-boggling stupidity that those high up didn't think that legal proceedings against all these people would end up biting them on the arse. Individuals should be being held accountable for it ever having got to that stage.
 
Reactions: MusicDating, Astute and Sky Blue Pete

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #49
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Makes you really angry that they value the reputation of their software package than the actual human beings they employ.

Even then it's mind-boggling stupidity that those high up didn't think that legal proceedings against all these people would end up biting them on the arse. Individuals should be being held accountable for it ever having got to that stage.
Click to expand...

I agree, though its not really bit them on the arse, they've got away with it.
The wrong accused postmasters still bearing the brunt
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #50
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Makes you really angry that they value the reputation of their software package than the actual human beings they employ.

Even then it's mind-boggling stupidity that those high up didn't think that legal proceedings against all these people would end up biting them on the arse. Individuals should be being held accountable for it ever having got to that stage.
Click to expand...

My knowledge of this prior to the series just shown was fairly limited, but I sit here wondering why Post Office didn’t just turn on Fujitsu? If you’ve signed a contract/licence with them which (unless added for dramatic effect) includes their in-house maintenance and then it comes to light that those IT workers may be acting nefariously, then surely you’d be having them in court as well.
 
Reactions: thekidfromstrettoncamp and Sky_Blue_Dreamer

CCfC2023

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #51
Now its Royal Mails turn after the last 18 months of dispute , Just look up Simon Thompson at the select committee on Youtube .

Maybe there will be an ITV show in 10-15 years time .
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 5, 2024
  • #52
SBAndy said:
My knowledge of this prior to the series just shown was fairly limited, but I sit here wondering why Post Office didn’t just turn on Fujitsu? If you’ve signed a contract/licence with them which (unless added for dramatic effect) includes their in-house maintenance and then it comes to light that those IT workers may be acting nefariously, then surely you’d be having them in court as well.
Click to expand...

Because governments and corporations don't turn on each other, they punch down and victimise the little man and woman.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #53
SBAndy said:
My knowledge of this prior to the series just shown was fairly limited, but I sit here wondering why Post Office didn’t just turn on Fujitsu? If you’ve signed a contract/licence with them which (unless added for dramatic effect) includes their in-house maintenance and then it comes to light that those IT workers may be acting nefariously, then surely you’d be having them in court as well.
Click to expand...
The contract was probably a load of shite like many major IT ones are

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 
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tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #54
Post office has spent over 100 million defending these cases when it was obvious they knew things were wrong.
Ruined people's reputations and lives. There's been bankruptcies, jail time and suicides.
Inevitable there's been cover-ups and other illegal practices with various parties trying to hide the truth. Those guilty should be facing prison.
 
Reactions: Mild-Mannered Janitor, RedSalmon and wingy

better days

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #55
The investigating and legal team at the Post Office were on bonuses based on the amount they screwed out of the sub-postmasters
Whoever devised that scheme should be on criminal charges alongside plenty of others at the Post Office & Fujitsu
 
Reactions: nicksar, Ian1779, RedSalmon and 4 others

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #56
better days said:
The investigating and legal team at the Post Office were on bonuses based on the amount they screwed out of the sub-postmasters
Whoever devised that scheme should be on criminal charges alongside plenty of others at the Post Office & Fujitsu
Click to expand...

ITK at CCFC and the post office, impressive.
 
Reactions: wingy, Sky Blue Pete and better days

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #57
better days said:
The investigating and legal team at the Post Office were on bonuses based on the amount they screwed out of the sub-postmasters
Whoever devised that scheme should be on criminal charges alongside plenty of others at the Post Office & Fujitsu
Click to expand...
Bonus schemes like this tend to mean proper oversight goes out the window
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #58

Post Office Scandal: Strip Paula Vennells of her CBE

I just signed the petition calling on Paula Vennells, the former CEO of the Post Office to be stripped of her CBE. Will you sign too?
you.38degrees.org.uk
 
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JAM See

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #59
oldfiver said:

Post Office Scandal: Strip Paula Vennells of her CBE

I just signed the petition calling on Paula Vennells, the former CEO of the Post Office to be stripped of her CBE. Will you sign too?
you.38degrees.org.uk
Click to expand...
I'll not be signing this.

Petitions like this are scapegoating individuals, as if the concept of "Empire" based honours are somehow still worth something.

The whole empire based system is stupid and should be scrapped.

I'll sign a petition for that.

*Edit : Alan Bates turned down an "honour" this year. Fair play to the man.
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #60
JAM See said:
I'll not be signing this.

Petitions like this are scapegoating individuals, as if the concept of "Empire" based honours are somehow still worth something.

The whole empire based system is stupid and should be scrapped.

I'll sign a petition for that.
Click to expand...
Do so then
 

JAM See

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #61
Sky Blue Pete said:
Do so then
Click to expand...
On it. Will you sign?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #62
JAM See said:
On it. Will you sign?
Click to expand...
Yep
 
Reactions: JAM See
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #63
Pretty bleak how the general public doesn’t really start to demand accountability until ITV makes a five-part primetime drama about something.
 
Reactions: AOM, Sky Blue Pete and dutchman
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #64
SBT said:
Pretty bleak how the general public doesn’t really start to demand accountability until ITV makes a five-part primetime drama about something.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't need the general public to demand action.

Problem is most people say they want less regulation and oversight of what organisations do. Then when something like this happens they expect something to be done.
 
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JAM See

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #65
SBT said:
Pretty bleak how the general public doesn’t really start to demand accountability until ITV makes a five-part primetime drama about something.
Click to expand...
T'was ever the same.

Google "Cathy come home effect"

Drama can reach places that facts alone cannot.

See also Schindler's List.
 
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Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #66
SBT said:
Pretty bleak how the general public doesn’t really start to demand accountability until ITV makes a five-part primetime drama about something.
Click to expand...

Probably shows how shit the news outlets are then.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, Grendel, chiefdave and 1 other person
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #67
Nick said:
Probably shows how shit the news outlets are then.
Click to expand...
There's been plenty of coverage of it before now.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #68
Nick said:
Probably shows how shit the news outlets are then.
Click to expand...
It’s a fair criticism but there have been plenty of outlets covering it, without much pickup from readers/audiences.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 6, 2024
  • #69
SBT said:
Pretty bleak how the general public doesn’t really start to demand accountability until ITV makes a five-part primetime drama about something.
Click to expand...
Public inquiry was originally supposed to report its findings in 2022 but hasn't done so. Supposedly results will be published soon then it will be a potential media feeding frenzy.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2024
  • #70
Wife binge watched this last night. I was hooked after 10 minutes.

The main part missed by most is those who should be keeping an eye on things like this are also the owners. So the owners want it kept quiet. The British government and Post Office have been able to keep it quiet for years by making people sign disclaimers.

But now with the outcry and courts being involved they will have to be, and will be, impartial. This is a lot bigger than most could imagine. There's going to be some big names involved. Two different governments in place. Is that why neither of them are campaigning for justice?

Fraud is a serious crime. Can come with a long sentence. And worse has happened. If people from the Post Office and governments don't get long prison sentences it will show how corrupt the system is. How can someone get time for an alleged theft without proof when the people making up the evidence get less?
 
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