Pace (1 Viewer)

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 16, 2012

It is quite amusing I haven't seen the phrase 'pacey winger' in a while on this forum.

Now to the point of the thread, I think our recent form proves we don't need 100mph wingers, we have technically good wingers in Moussa (who tbf, has pace) and Baker, who have surprised me greatly, have got an end product, chipping in with goals and assists.

I think we may need another winger, for cover, unless, McSheff steps up or Garner breaks the 1st team (and does well).

I think our midfield is our real strength.

Covstu · Dec 16, 2012

I think the fact its more of an effective wide player never mind the pace, a pacey winger i.e. Raheem Stirling will always give defenders nightmares but if they lose confidence they can be the most ineffective players on the pitch. Also if there is no end product i.e. John Williams for us back in the day, they can be as fast as they want to be but no point unless they can get the ball into the box.

oldskyblue58 · Dec 16, 2012

Pace isnt just down to having a pacey winger though SBT. You have to have pace of general movement, pace of passing, and above all pace in players thought and decision making. We havent massively increased the speed of individual players but MR has inproved the pace and accuracy that the team operates to. Do that and a pacey winger isnt so necessary, although I would suggest it is still a desirable option.

Right now i would also suggest it is the back 5 that gives the team the platform to go play.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 16, 2012

Covstu said:
I think the fact its more of an effective wide player never mind the pace, a pacey winger i.e. Raheem Stirling will always give defenders nightmares but if they lose confidence they can be the most ineffective players on the pitch. Also if there is no end product i.e. John Williams for us back in the day, they can be as fast as they want to be but no point unless they can get the ball into the box.

I watched Raheem Sterling, Liverpool V Villa yesterday (free ticket)... He was awful, took it round the full back once, tbf, Liverpool were awful they had 27 shots (I was surprised at that figure) and didn't look like scoring (even tough did) awful, I wasted time up there! Wish I went Donny instead.

oldskyblue58 · Dec 16, 2012

would go further and say our strength at the moment is actually the work rate of the whole team and the way they can now press the game over all the pitch for 90+ minutes

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 16, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
Pace isnt just down to having a pacey winger though SBT. You have to have pace of general movement, pace of passing, and above all pace in players thought and decision making. We havent massively increased the speed of individual players but MR has inproved the pace and accuracy that the team operates to. Do that and a pacey winger isnt so necessary, although I would suggest it is still a desirable option.

Right now i would also suggest it is the back 5 that gives the team the platform to go play.

It was aimed at people at people who felt we need a 100mph winger to do well.

I agree with what you're saying, but I think we have one of the best, if not the best midfield in the league, Baker scoring for fun as well as chipping in for assists, Bailey same with assists, Jennings is a pitbull, certainly has lived up to the hype, Moussa is fantastic, skilful, pacey, scores goals, McSheff is doing well, Barton is doing well, should start IMO, great goal yesterday and is doing well in the AMC role, we have Fleck on the bench, Thomas coming back, Lobjoit and Garner coming through, looks bright.

We do need to concede less goals though. I think we only need to address the striker role when McG possibly leaves, unsure if Cody can come up with the goods.

We have the platform to go on and win this thing!

LJC_CCFC · Dec 16, 2012

Our pace comes from the full backs, it is needed in any team

oldskyblue58 · Dec 16, 2012

not disagreeing with you SBT, there is a lot of talent in our midfield that seem to compliment each other - the worry is who will not still be here come February.

The fact that we now have fullbacks that dont get a nose bleed on the halfway line is important to how we play, a vital piece in the jigsaw

One of the differences under MR to previous managers is the sense of togetherness. Previously you got the impression that the three departments in the team played almost in isolation of each other. Right now you see a team working at a good standard for each other...... eg DMG scoring the goals but also setting up others BUT also defending his heart out too.

As a team we seem to be fitter and quicker all over the pitch. Would a pacey winger improve that - probably yes but only if he does all the other things that Baker/Moussa etc do now as well

MR has looked at the set up and started to develop a team...... put the right pieces together in the right places

Long time since CCFC fans felt so good about their team

stupot07 · Dec 16, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
It was aimed at people at people who felt we need a 100mph winger to do well.

I agree with what you're saying, but I think we have one of the best, if not the best midfield in the league, Baker scoring for fun as well as chipping in for assists, Bailey same with assists, Jennings is a pitbull, certainly has lived up to the hype, Moussa is fantastic, skilful, pacey, scores goals, McSheff is doing well, Barton is doing well, should start IMO, great goal yesterday and is doing well in the AMC role, we have Fleck on the bench, Thomas coming back, Lobjoit and Garner coming through, looks bright.

We do need to concede less goals though. I think we only need to address the striker role when McG possibly leaves, unsure if Cody can come up with the goods.

We have the platform to go on and win this thing!

The difference has been the fact that Moussa is now playing in a more advanced position, either centrally or out wide and christie coming back from injury.

When Moussa first signed he played predominantly in the defensive central midfield role alongside bailey because Jennings was injured then out of favour. He was very average in this role and in that role he as so deep his pace added nothing. From the Hartlepool game onwards Jennings had been playing in that role and Moussa has played in a more advanced role allowing him to use his pace in attacking areas.

Christie is pacy and direct and likes to get passed baker meaning baker can float inside more because he knows christie will over lap and often be more advanced than baker, add that to McGoldricks pace it means we now have far more attacking pace than we did earlier in the season.

As good a goal as Bartons was, I still maintain that sheff should start ahead of him when baker returns, sheff is the only attacking midfielder in the squad who will consistently make runs in behind McGoldrick and be the second striker. His inclusion in the starting line up and also been one of the catalysts for this good run, McGoldrick is no longer being left isolated up top when we play 5 in midfield.

Black6Osprey · Dec 16, 2012

We have more pace as a team now. Thats pace running with the ball, without the ball, passing and closing down. We also have more width and are scoring from crosses into the box, good passing moves and the spectacular. Its an allround improvement.

covcity4life · Dec 16, 2012

David bell is the back up winger, we don't need to spend money on a new 1 till summer imo

Sutty · Dec 16, 2012

As OSB rightly points out, it's the pace and crispness of our passing which is much improved.

So often at the start of the season one of our players would play the ball out wide for a wide man on the move, but he'd have to check his run to control the pass and all the pace and fluency would go out of the attack.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 16, 2012

covcity4life said:
David bell is the back up winger, we don't need to spend money on a new 1 till summer imo

Hopefully, he, along obvious others are shipped off.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 16, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
not disagreeing with you SBT, there is a lot of talent in our midfield that seem to compliment each other - the worry is who will not still be here come February.

The fact that we now have fullbacks that dont get a nose bleed on the halfway line is important to how we play, a vital piece in the jigsaw

One of the differences under MR to previous managers is the sense of togetherness. Previously you got the impression that the three departments in the team played almost in isolation of each other. Right now you see a team working at a good standard for each other...... eg DMG scoring the goals but also setting up others BUT also defending his heart out too.

As a team we seem to be fitter and quicker all over the pitch. Would a pacey winger improve that - probably yes but only if he does all the other things that Baker/Moussa etc do now as well

MR has looked at the set up and started to develop a team...... put the right pieces together in the right places

Long time since CCFC fans felt so good about their team

Completely agree bar the pacey winger part, I feel end product prevails over raw pace.

Christie is very good, needs to improve his crossing though, he does, however, make it up as he can cut onto his left and score.

I think Clarke's cross for the 3rd was v good, ever since Barnsley (under AB, we won 3-1) I felt he could do a job at RM, quick, can cross, can score score (Cardiff).

We owe MR, been a top manager and has changed CCFC.

Paxman II · Dec 16, 2012

I think there are several things MR's identified and improved on to be included with the above.

Fitness. When he arrived they were not lasting 90 minutes!

Spirit and belief.

Better organisation, playing to our strengths and a 'team' picked for the opposition.

Tactics and certainly one of the biggest improvements 'use of substitutions effectively'.

All these have been a marked improvement.

suddsy101 · Dec 16, 2012

bakers getting quite old now so we will need a new winger. i suggest buying Jon Taylor from Shrewsbury. good pace, young and hes got a good finish on him.

skybluegod · Dec 16, 2012

suddsy101 said:
bakers getting quite old now so we will need a new winger. i suggest buying Jon Taylor from Shrewsbury. good pace, young and hes got a good finish on him.

Bakers 29 the prime of his career thats not old. Jon taylor would require a fee as well which we cannot afford if we want bailey and DMC.

We don't need any new first team players until the end of the season IMO. We just need to sign bailey. goldie, adams (possibly not as Sunderland might want him) and moussa tied down to another contract.

covboy9 · Dec 16, 2012

we break with pace thats the key, we are so much better away from home, its the most fluid i've ever seen cov. At home it's still a bit of a struggle vs teams that play us at our own game, i'm hoping Robins will make the odd change to formation at home to surprise visiting teams who come to hit us on the counter

ps1948 · Dec 16, 2012

Isn't McSheffrey also 29......although his lack of pace is far more obvious than Baker.
Sheff had one of his better games yesterday, but really annoyed me when he put 2 corners straight onto the head of the nearest Donny player, and then 2 crosses way over the bar.......but then put in a peach of a cross that Bailey manager to put over the bar from a yard!

oldskyblue58 · Dec 16, 2012

wouldnt have any player just because they have raw pace SBT .............. they have to offer far more than that including but not only a final product.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 16, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
wouldnt have any player just because they have raw pace SBT .............. they have to offer far more than that including but not only a final product.

You wouldn't, but others have said we need a pacey winger, as if it would solve all our problems, now we're winning the pace issue is lessened but I think people have missed the point is, it doesn't matter if you have pace, as long as you can take on a man and cross it and chip in with a few goals - happy days.

stupot07 · Dec 16, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
You wouldn't, but others have said we need a pacey winger, as if it would solve all our problems, now we're winning the pace issue is lessened but I think people have missed the point is, it doesn't matter if you have pace, as long as you can take on a man and cross it and chip in with a few goals - happy days.

The pace issue has lessened because we now have more pace in attacking areas.

- DMc is quick
- Moussa is now playing in an advanced role now Jennings fit, and not in the defensive central midfield role he had been playing previous.
- Christie has comeback from injury and is make a lot of attacking runs beyond Baker.
- sheffers although not at all quick, makes a lot of runs in behind DMc meaning when DMc drops off their back 4 have to cope with someone making forward runs, which also helps push defenders deeper.

Not to mention the likes of Fleck and Ball are no longer in the starting line up. Both incredibly slow.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 16, 2012

stupot07 said:
The pace issue has lessened because we now have more pace in attacking areas.

- DMc is quick
- Moussa is now playing in an advanced role now Jennings fit, and not in the defensive central midfield role he had been playing previous.
- Christie has comeback from injury and is make a lot of attacking runs beyond Baker.
- sheffers although not at all quick, makes a lot of runs in behind DMc meaning when DMc drops off their back 4 have to cope with someone making forward runs, which also helps push defenders deeper.

Not to mention the likes of Fleck and Ball are no longer in the starting line up. Both incredibly slow.

Never rated Ball, Fleck I rate, just not going his way, but is still having an impact when he plays.

- Moussa on the LM was where I favoured him.
- McG is pacey, but there's so much mor to his game.
- Christie is rapid, so is Clarke tbf, so not much change here. I do think Clarke could become a RM though.
- Sheffers has been good, but I rate Barton more, and it showed his 'runs behind' McG are pretty over rated (by some) as we still raped Doncaster. Barton has more goals, 1 less assist, McSheff is supposed to score...

skybluegod · Dec 16, 2012

ps1948 said:
Isn't McSheffrey also 29......although his lack of pace is far more obvious than Baker.
Sheff had one of his better games yesterday, but really annoyed me when he put 2 corners straight onto the head of the nearest Donny player, and then 2 crosses way over the bar.......but then put in a peach of a cross that Bailey manager to put over the bar from a yard!

sheffers 30 and has played at a higher level which take more out of your legs. also baker is our captain your not going to replace him.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 16, 2012

skybluegod said:
sheffers 30 and has played at a higher level which take more out of your legs. also baker is our captain your not going to replace him.

For Baker, more like form! He's been on fire! McSheffrey, just isn't that good anymore, hope Barton starts next game and cements his place.

skybluegod · Dec 16, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
For Baker, more like form! He's been on fire! McSheffrey, just isn't that good anymore, hope Barton starts next game and cements his place.

You wouldn't drop your captain either my point? Sheffers hasn't got the legs to be a striker but how he's playing now is fine.

Sutty · Dec 16, 2012

Pacy players with end product play at the very top level.

At our level you largely have to settle for one or the other.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 16, 2012

skybluegod said:
You wouldn't drop your captain either my point? Sheffers hasn't got the legs to be a striker but how he's playing now is fine.

Kilbane is the most recent example.

Is Baker officially our captain yet?

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