Ownership (7 Viewers)

Nonleagueherewecome · Dec 5, 2011

Senior Vick from Alicante said:
OSB, if Sconset Capital own the shares then surely they would have to pass the leagues fit and propper test would they not or am I missing something?

Not that it's hard! But not telling the league of a change of ownership is a fairly major offence. Never mind how darn angry I am that they have dared do such a thing on the sly whilst preaching about a new era of "open communication"!!! Grrrrr. Good job it's nearly lunchtime.

Nonleagueherewecome · Dec 5, 2011

crowsnest said:
The link is down at the bottom of the main page (same for all clubs)

http://www.ccfc.co.uk/page/companydetails

Still showing sky blue sports and leisure. Just had a quick check and a lot of clubs are breaking this rule.

Yes, I think we spotted that on this forum 3 months ago. The Football League are incredibly lax when it comes to enforcing these kind of regulations. No wonder owners take the p.

torchomatic · Dec 5, 2011

I think we have, what they call in business, a "bowl of spaghetti" ownership structure.

skablue · Dec 5, 2011

Hi all, first post on here, I used to occassionally pop up on the telegraph forum.

The document from Luxembourg relates to a company called Baulder, a metals company, SISU bought them years ago and have sold them to Sconset. Absolutely nothing to do with CCFC.

wingy · Dec 5, 2011

BAulder dash,sorry,have we barked up the wrong tree.

ashbyjan · Dec 5, 2011

I think the document simply shows that there is a relationship between SISU and Sconset Capital LP and this is a Cayman Island company and not with the US based company of a similar name. This actual document may not outline the transfer of SBS&L shares but it does show an ongoing relationship between the two companies.

ashbyjan · Dec 5, 2011

I am guessing that like Leeds by having the shares in a Cayman Islands company there is even less chance of the names of the investors being revealed than if it was a UK based company. Make the whole thing so complex that the dullards at the Football League simply give up and go away.

tisza · Dec 5, 2011

Still doesn't change the original post about who owns SBSL shares now. And who Sconset actually are.

oldskyblue58 · Dec 5, 2011

Have sent following to the Football League

"Further to my previous email. It has become clear from Companies House that the ownership of the shares in Sky Blue Sports & Leisure which owns Coventry City FC has changed. 96% of the shares in Sky Blue Sports & Leisure are now owned by Sconset Capital LP. Please note the dates of change 24/09/10 as per the attached annual return. Clearly when I asked previously about the make up of the investing funds the change had already been made. Again I would enquire whether the Football League have investigated this new ownership and whether the club complies with the rules on fit and proper. Further could you inform me of the kind of proceedures the Football League undertakes to ensure that ownership at any club complies with the rules. Surely it cannot be just taking someones word for it.

Thank you for your assistance"

skablue · Dec 5, 2011

OSB posed the question do Sconset own the shares of SBS&L along with Leonard Brody, I pointed out that Sconset purchased shares in another SISU company, as far as it would appear SISU are still our owners and Sconset have nothing whatsoever to do with CCFC.

SISU and Sconset have a relationship in respect of the sale of a totally separate company, I would imagine that SISU have dealings with many other companies and are involved in the transfer of many assests, (the juke being next on the list), If every time a document is discovered with a SISU connection don't automatically conclude that it relates to CCFC as they have many other interests.

EleanorRigby · Dec 5, 2011

My worry is not who owns the club and when they acquired it but any rinkydinks like this without the Football League being informed can result in serious points deduction and not necessarily this season, didn't Bournemouth get something like a 30 point deduction a couple of years ago, then there was the Luton fiasco which seen them drop out of the FL and ain't got back yet.

oldskyblue58 · Dec 5, 2011

skablue said:
OSB posed the question do Sconset own the shares of SBS&L along with Leonard Brody, I pointed out that Sconset purchased shares in another SISU company, as far as it would appear SISU are still our owners and Sconset have nothing whatsoever to do with CCFC.

SISU and Sconset have a relationship in respect of the sale of a totally separate company, I would imagine that SISU have dealings with many other companies and are involved in the transfer of many assests, (the juke being next on the list), If every time a document is discovered with a SISU connection don't automatically conclude that it relates to CCFC as they have many other interests.

Ah but Sconset Capital LP are listed at Company House as owning 96% of the shares in Sky Blue Sports & Leisure which owns (ed?) CCFC. Sisu were never our owners they only managed the loans from their investors who owned the club in five different funds. You are probably spot about the paperwork in Luxemburg. However Sconset Capital LP now own SBS&L too

skablue · Dec 5, 2011

OSB not got access to full info from companies house so I accept that what you say is true, have noted just noted that SBS&L previously called Baulder S&L, Baulder also the company named in the Luxembourg document selling shares to Sconset. Baulder also a metal's company bought and sold by SISU, the plot thickens... Keep up the good work

We'll_live_and_die · Dec 5, 2011

oldskyblue58 said:
proceedures the Football League undertakes to ensure that ownership at any club complies with the rules. Surely it cannot be just taking someones word for it.

Thank you for your assistance"

Excellent email, but I pray you didn't send it with procedures spelt like that :facepalm:? I would just like to publicly announce that you are an excellent addition to this club, to this forum and an excellent "virtual" friend. Thanks and keep up the good work.

wingy · Dec 5, 2011

Thanks for clearing that one up OSB ,does seem similar to the Leeds reaction when conn /league /fan pressure focused on them aroung the same time .

ashbyjan · Dec 5, 2011

Shame we no longer have a CEO or Chairman as I am sure our new Director of Football Operations (Team Manager Designate) wouldn't know anything about any of these shady deals as if he had he would have revealed all in the spirit of openness that the board now operates.

Paxman II · Dec 5, 2011

It's all just cloak and daggers tbh.
Our football club is still alive and kicking. We need new owners with substantial funds.
We need the team to concentrate on winning games with the decent enough squad we have available.
We need a team manager who can achieve at least that in the short to medium term.
Then with some stability we may attract investors.
The clock is ticking and the trap door to oblivion is getting ever closer. people involved at CCFC whoever the hell they are need a reality check.

crowsnest · Dec 5, 2011

skablue said:
OSB not got access to full info from companies house so I accept that what you say is true, have noted just noted that SBS&L previously called Baulder S&L, Baulder also the company named in the Luxembourg document selling shares to Sconset. Baulder also a metal's company bought and sold by SISU, the plot thickens... Keep up the good work

I knew I had seen the name Baulder before.

And the HQ of Baulder UK is - Hanover Street, the same as sisu.

Sterling Archer · Dec 5, 2011

I await the response to OSB's email with intriguement.

wingy · Dec 5, 2011

so were these shares gifted to said organisation or did money change hands,would Ranson have gifted his shares ? how come brody showed up 3-4 months post this ,and has independent shares ,are they just another fund management company?so what role is there left for Sisu.Would ownership of the loans have transferred with the shares.

ashbyjan · Dec 5, 2011

Baulder (UK) Ltd is still active and a holding company with no assets with Igwe and Coleman as directors. http://companycheck.co.uk/company/06376447

oldskyblue58 · Dec 5, 2011

all very good questions wingy.......... sadly as yet i dont have the answers

crowsnest · Dec 5, 2011

wingy said:
so were these shares gifted to said organisation or did money change hands,would Ranson have gifted his shares ? how come brody showed up 3-4 months post this ,and has independent shares ,are they just another fund management company?so what role is there left for Sisu.Would ownership of the loans have transferred with the shares.

Shares started being transferred in Sept 2010 and more were transferred when Ranson left in March 2011.

LeamingtonBootBoy · Dec 5, 2011

Danceswithhorses said:
fine work crowsnest and OSB...what are they upto ?

This sounds like something out of Secret Seven or The Famous Five.

We should have a password....and some lemonade.

But it is some good detective work, granted.

mexico88 · Dec 5, 2011

Paxman II said:
It's all just cloak and daggers tbh.
Our football club is still alive and kicking. We need new owners with substantial funds.
We need the team to concentrate on winning games with the decent enough squad we have available.
We need a team manager who can achieve at least that in the short to medium term.
Then with some stability we may attract investors.
The clock is ticking and the trap door to oblivion is getting ever closer. people involved at CCFC whoever the hell they are need a reality check.

Have you just woken up from a coma? Do you know what's been happening?
We cant afford a new manager, the team continues to be stripped of players, there's no chance of any stability any time soon and this team isn't "decent enough" - its bottom of the league.

If you didn't have so many posts, I'd have been claiming that you are Ken D - the profile picture certainly back that method of thinking ;-)

Seriously though mate, all jest aside - it's that kind of 'positive attitude' that is going to sink us as a club like we know it - we have to fight this, it isn't a case of getting new investors - these people could put us in the same position as Luton town - do you want to allow that?

oldskyblue58 · Dec 5, 2011

use knock tap tap knock to come in LBB. The rest of the instructions are written in invisible ink below............

coundonskyblue · Dec 5, 2011

So this happened in Sept 2010?

Was that not around the time Ken Bates wrote that article in a paper saying Sisu/Ranson had made a bad investment in us and were looking for a way out? Maybe he had heard something about this.

tisza · Dec 5, 2011

There are lots of different companies and funds being set up – Sconset and Avro Mastertrust to name two – and from the outside it looks like the club are preparing for administration.
I don’t really understand why that perception would be there. A lot of money has gone in – way, way north of £30million – and they are putting it in through different companies and the different funds in which they have been invested.
Sisu, basically, is a bank with a load of funds in that bank from different sources and I think they need different instruments so it doesn’t get confused.
So if one investment goes into one company and then someone else wants to invest it goes into another company. I am not an expert on hedge funds but that’s my limited understanding of what’s happening.

Read More http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...y-city-around-92746-29897270/3/#ixzz1fg2fhGxb

nice fudge from KD without actually addressing who these 2 companies are

Nonleagueherewecome · Dec 5, 2011

LeamingtonBootBoy said:
This sounds like something out of Secret Seven or The Famous Five.

We should have a password....and some lemonade.

But it is some good detective work, granted.

You forgot the lashings of ginger beer!

Paxman II · Dec 5, 2011

mexico88 What part of oblivion do you not understand?

Everyone can get their knickers in a twist but the club is here right now and we can improve things by tweaking a couple of things.
That's all I'm saying. The owners (whoever they are) need to do that NOW.

If we wait any longer it will be too late. protest all you will but that won't change things for this Saturday but the owners can bring some change.

I'mARealWizard · Dec 6, 2011

The more that I read, the more that I despair.

All the directors of any company seem to be directors of multiple companies. All the same as each other. All registered at the same address.

Seems like a massive paper trail to an un-educated layman such as I.

One thing is crystal clear. SISU are advising/directing things very well. They aren't muddling from one scenario to the next, they are moving their pieces around the chessboard with great precision.

How utterly depressing

oldskyblue58 · Dec 8, 2011

I have had a reply to the email I sent the Football League

"Thank you for your email.

The Football League’s Owners’ and Directors’ Test requires all directors to confirm that there are no “dual associations” within the meaning of our regulations. At this time, based on the information we have been supplied with we believe the Club is compliant in that respect.

We are unable to comment further on the issues of ownership by virtue of the fact that any discussions between The League and any Club are confidential.

However, we remain committed to seeking to ensure our Clubs remain compliant at all times.

In reference to the Owners’ and Directors’ Test please view Appendix IV available on our website here http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20110629/appendix-4_2293633_2128219.

In addition please find an FAQ regarding the Owners and Directors Test which you may find useful http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FAQ/FAQsDetail/0,,10794~2428071,00.html.

Thank you for contacting The Football League."

No further forward:thinking about:

cloughie · Dec 8, 2011

oldskyblue58 said:
I have had a reply to the email I sent the Football League

. At this time, based on the information we have been supplied with we believe the Club is compliant in that respect.

So as you asked in the 1st place OSB that would mean "we take their word for it" then and by the way please check the rules as we (The football league) can't be botheed

oldskyblue58 · Dec 8, 2011

thats about the sum of it cloughie yes ...... not very satisfactory is it !

davebart · Dec 8, 2011

I wouldn't get worked up about this. Sisu are a private equity-capital investment-hedge fund management company. They manage other people's money and attempt to make more money for them. Moving money around in different companies is just one of the ways they do this. It is incredibly complex for the very reason that it is designed to get round the legal protections put in place by governments. You and I would probably call it fraud if we could follow it - they call it wealth creation. But it indicates nothing as far as the playing side is concerned.

Possibly they are trying to sell the 'asset' as a toxic debt bundled up with something else. The league hasn't got a cat in hells chance of following it - even tax inspectors can't get to the bottom of it.

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