Our current squad IS good enough to survive. (3 Viewers)

Platt_The_Donkey · Nov 2, 2011

I cannot understand people saying Thorn cannot make a team out of our current playing staff;

Murphy, Dunn, Hussey, Wood, McPake, Keogh, Deegan, Baker, Bell, Clingan, Juke, Sheff, ROD, McDonald, Eastwodd, Platt were all signed during Thorn's tenure at the club either as Chief Scout or as Manager, add the young quality of Thomas, Bigi and Christie, we in my opinion have a decent set of players.

I strongly feel a tough talking, no nonsense kind of manager could and would make these players play, and this excuse that we have no quality is bull-shit. Thorn, as much as i like the bloke isn't up to scratch, plain and simple.

coundonskyblue · Nov 2, 2011

But why then have two other managers failed with most of these players? They also had a little quality that this team doesnt imo.

musicmanskyblue · Nov 2, 2011

Sadly lacking pace,goals,creativity.. whoever manages...

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Nov 2, 2011

What I don't understand is why people think that a team that finished 18th last season can lose there 4 best players without replacing them and still compete to the same level they were before.

Platt_The_Donkey · Nov 2, 2011

They weren't good enough either,. Employing the right manager is vital and has been our downfall for years, just ask Norwich, Southampton or Brighton fans, a manager who has a bit of know how, contemporary vision, hunger, good man-management skills, connections etc. I really believe Thorn is the reason we haven't had players on loan, as they see he doesn't really have the credentials.

Platt_The_Donkey · Nov 2, 2011

musicmanskyblue said:
Sadly lacking pace,goals,creativity.. whoever manages...

McDonald, Christie, Baker, Hussey are all pretty quick.

Clingan, Bigi and bell can create chances.

stupot07 · Nov 2, 2011

The reason we have not brought any players in on loan is because we have no money Ffs, Barnsley got drinkwater because we couldn't financially compete, etc, etc.

stupot07 · Nov 2, 2011

Platt_The_Donkey said:
McDonald, Christie, Baker, Hussey are all pretty quick.

Clingan, Bigi and bell can create chances.

Christie and McDonald are quite quick, baker is slow as, hussey is average pace.

SonofErnie · Nov 2, 2011

If it was always that straight forward, how did a team of journeymen players that had narrowly avoided relegation transform into a team that finished in the top half of the table and won a trophy ? Yes I'm talking about our 87 cup winning team. This club has always lost it's best players every year and had to replace them with youth team or lower league players. The average age of one of our most exciting teams ever was under 21, why can't this be done again ?

CUS Wyken · Nov 2, 2011

CCFC said:
What I don't understand is why people think that a team that finished 18th last season can lose there 4 best players without replacing them and still compete to the same level they were before.

Very good point

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Nov 2, 2011

Platt_The_Donkey said:
They weren't good enough either,. Employing the right manager is vital and has been our downfall for years, just ask Norwich, Southampton or Brighton fans, a manager who has a bit of know how, contemporary vision, hunger, good man-management skills, connections etc. I really believe Thorn is the reason we haven't had players on loan, as they see he doesn't really have the credentials.

Yea I wish we could splash out 1 million on ricky lambert, or 2 mill + on Mckail Smith or attract players like Vicente.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Nov 2, 2011

SonofErnie said:
If it was always that straight forward, how did a team of journeymen players that had narrowly avoided relegation transform into a team that finished in the top half of the table and won a trophy ? Yes I'm talking about our 87 cup winning team. This club has always lost it's best players every year and had to replace them with youth team or lower league players. The average age of one of our most exciting teams ever was under 21, why can't this be done again ?

Yea we will always lose our best players but we need to at least try and attempt to replace them instead of making no effort at all.

stupot07 · Nov 2, 2011

SonofErnie said:
If it was always that straight forward, how did a team of journeymen players that had narrowly avoided relegation transform into a team that finished in the top half of the table and won a trophy ? Yes I'm talking about our 87 cup winning team. This club has always lost it's best players every year and had to replace them with youth team or lower league players. The average age of one of our most exciting teams ever was under 21, why can't this be done again ?

Football has changed since then, ruined by money and greed. Technically, tactically and fitness wise the game has moved on significantly, and you need a lot of luck that the team all peak and gel at the same time - 1987 was a complete one off and they soon reverted to type and became relation fodder again.

SonofErnie · Nov 2, 2011

CCFC said:
Yea we will always lose our best players but we need to at least try and attempt to replace them instead of making no effort at all.

That's the point I was making, the replacements have come from the youth set up.

stupot07 · Nov 2, 2011

SonofErnie said:
That's the point I was making, the replacements have come from the youth set up.

But thomas, Christie and bigi were all 17 at the start of the season, it's not like your bringing in and relying on 19-20-21 year olds that have been in and around the squad for 2 or 3 years.

Gaz · Nov 2, 2011

CCFC said:
What I don't understand is why people think that a team that finished 18th last season can lose there 4 best players without replacing them and still compete to the same level they were before.

Nail on head.

R.I.P this thread.

Nonleagueherewecome · Nov 2, 2011

stupot07 said:
But thomas, Christie and bigi were all 17 at the start of the season, it's not like your bringing in and relying on 19-20-21 year olds that have been in and around the squad for 2 or 3 years.

That's pretty much the difference between us and Palace-oh yeah, and they spent a little bit. Not a huge amount, but just enough to give the kids some help,add some experience and make them competitive. So I ask..would SISU have prevented greater losses further down the line in terms of relegation if they'd taken a leaf out of Palaces book and let Thorn make just 3 or 4 reasonably priced signings? This is part of what people mean when they say that SISU simply don't understand the business of football.

Otis · Nov 2, 2011

Disagree, Platt.

This squad isn't good enough. We have a few good players and some promising youngsters, but we don't have enough of them. Juke, Cranie, Keogh, Clingan and then the kids, Christie, Thomas and Bigi, but that's about it and remember these kids are still kids so are prone to mistakes and naivety anyway.

We don't have enough pace and we don't have enough invention in the midfield and up front Juke is not a goal scorer (not a 20 goal a season player anyway). Add to this that the squad is tiny and any injury is a real problem and there you have the answer in a nutshell.

Said before, a good manager could come in and do a better job than Thorn, but the improvement would be minimal and as soon as a spate of injuries kicked in to major players we would be straight back down amongst the dead men.

Paxman II · Nov 2, 2011

Those that say we lost our 4 best players are very forgetful. King was our best player but no coincidence we slumped while he was in the side! he also was very oor during the remaining games at the tail end of the season with Thorn quoting he could not hit a barn door during that period and Juke had far more success.
Westwood i think was slightly over rated though in truth a good keeper but we have a adequate replacement.
Gunna was poor most of the time it must be said.
Turner was not in the side.

Today we have better full backs, an injury free Clingan and Deagan who is like a new signing.

The problem lies in the coaching of these players.

EleanorRigby · Nov 2, 2011

This squad may not be the best in the division but is good enough to be doing a lot better. The manager is the most important part of the club. I hate to say it but I am beginning to think Andy Thorn won't get any more out of this squad so a change might be what is required

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Nov 2, 2011

Paxman II said:
Those that say we lost our 4 best players are very forgetful. King was our best player but no coincidence we slumped while he was in the side! he also was very oor during the remaining games at the tail end of the season with Thorn quoting he could not hit a barn door during that period and Juke had far more success.
Westwood i think was slightly over rated though in truth a good keeper but we have a adequate replacement.
Gunna was poor most of the time it must be said.
Turner was not in the side.

Today we have better full backs, an injury free Clingan and Deagan who is like a new signing.

The problem lies in the coaching of these players.

Yea I agree 6 goals in his last 6 games for Coventry City is shockingly bad for King.
Ben Turner was our best defender for the first 3 months, no coincidence our slump in form came with his injury?
Westwood was the best keeper in the league for me.
Gunnarsson was not poor but also admittedly wasn't in our top 4 players but was still one of the better players.

People are forgetful and forget how good these players were for Coventry and are just plain stupid if they don't think we hugely miss them this season.

stupot07 · Nov 2, 2011

Paxman II said:
Those that say we lost our 4 best players are very forgetful. King was our best player but no coincidence we slumped while he was in the side! he also was very oor during the remaining games at the tail end of the season with Thorn quoting he could not hit a barn door during that period and Juke had far more success.
Westwood i think was slightly over rated though in truth a good keeper but we have a adequate replacement.
Gunna was poor most of the time it must be said.
Turner was not in the side.

Today we have better full backs, an injury free Clingan and Deegans who is like a new signing.

The problem lies in the coaching of these players.

King - was our top scorer - oh and he scored 6 goals in his last 6 games for us
Gunnar = scored more goals than Bell, Clingan, Baker and Carsley put together last season
Turner = scored more goals than our all of our defenders put together

but we don't miss them because King had a poor game at Norwich last season, gunnar wasn't the player he was in his first season, and Turner never played for Thorn? And Westwood is just average??

Mr T - Sukka! · Nov 2, 2011

Its not good enough mate look at the Championship table. Simples.

rob9872 · Nov 2, 2011

Norwich Southampton and Brighton have all been relegated from this league first and all found their succes through a positive fan base with full houses, confidence, a firm financial footing in that league, below and more importantly some investment from owners who want to succeed and who understand football.

Southampton signed Lambert when we couldn't compete from a league lower and in the region of £1m, Norwich didn't sell Holt collected some solid PL loans and Brighton have recently invested £3m in CMS - a figure City fans can only dream of for a budget let alone on one player. Yes they have decent managers but its so much more than that.

Very poor comparisons to level imo and as has been stated many times on this and other threads you can't continually strip better players from an already low ranked and low budget team, not replace them and constatntly expect them to improve. We tried for years in the PL until our luck ran out, we have tried for years in this one and it has run out again.

We are going down and I hope thyen when we do 'bottom-out' eventually whether that be in the leage below or the one below that, we get the chance to rebuild without being stripped and to regain our pride and standing with a growing fanbase , holding onto our players and some on-field success. Providing we don't go to the wall, it will eventually happen and we will find our rightful place again, but I fear there is a long bumpy road before we get there.

Grendel · Nov 2, 2011

The squad is not good enough. Defence is adequate but that is it. No real forward threat and zero pace. Also no proper manager. All that equals relegation by the end of February.

Platt_The_Donkey · Nov 3, 2011

Even Eastwood can't be arsed to get fit for the bloke, now that says a lot.

rob9872 · Nov 3, 2011

.... because he was simply outstanding for his previous four managers ...

Otis · Nov 3, 2011

Anyone else fear that if Thorn goes a new manager might give Eastwood yet another chance? After all, he has all the attributes and skills to be a top player in this division. :facepalm:

Chipfat · Nov 3, 2011

These players are collectivley not good enough, they wil compete in most games and win every so often but gaining enough points over a season to avoid relegation is going to be very difficult if not impossible... So opinions are fine but the league doesnt lie we are not good enough.... why inexperinence, no Natural Goalscorer, to many inconsistant senior pro's-Bell, Baker and Macca and the lack of investment all = RELEGATION.

Otis · Nov 3, 2011

Yep. Getting a little fed up with all this 'unlucky' tag. We have not bee unlucky. We have not been good enough.

ccfcway · Nov 3, 2011

CCFC said:
Yea I wish we could splash out 1 million on ricky lambert, or 2 mill + on Mckail Smith or attract players like Vicente.

and I am pretty sure that SISU wish that we were where Southampton are at the moment, so they could reep the 40m+ they get from the premiership.

barnsleyskyblue · Nov 3, 2011

sorry but this squad is not good enough full stop, and we will be playing in league one next year(hope im wrong) been a city fan since 1974 and the performance v barnsley was the lowest point for me ( and yes i was at sutton utd).:blue:

Sky Blue Sheepy · Nov 3, 2011

I'm not really sure... the squad to me doesn't look bad on paper:

Murphy - good keeper, starting to get used to his defense.
Hussey - confidence affects him - has shown good attacking prowess though defensively not the best - true of a lot of wing-backs nowadays
Cranie - solid defender
Keogh - solid defender who has attacking potential
Christie - similar to Hussey but slightly more skillful on the attack IMO
Deegan - good tackler, does little wrong and can make a good pass
Clingan - meant to be the life-blood of the team - has shown that he can play some excellent passes consistently but recently is only going side and back
Bell - Capable of good things sometimes, though not consistent
McSheffrey - pretty much read Bell
Jutkiewicz - is able to hold up the ball well and has started to score/feed others in
McDonald - unproven atm but is showing improvements - getting himself into good positions and now just needs to convert

So individually they are mostly capable - none of them are too poor for this division (except O'Donovan... he is just plain shite for all his effort)

We miss King - his ability to drag defenders away was beneficial for us last season, no denying it so the problem for me lies with how the players are being used. I've been trying to get behind Thorn but unfortunately I'm finding more and more criticism being laid at his feet. I know it's easy to say sat at a computer with little more experiance of management than playing FM11, but some of the decisions or lack of, do baffle me...

Platt_The_Donkey · Nov 3, 2011

rob9872 said:
.... because he was simply outstanding for his previous four managers ...

but it was OK to play an unfit McDonald, an absolute pile of shite in ROD and a lumbering plank like Clive Platt? no wonder we can't score goals.

DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe · Nov 3, 2011

You could add an unfit Freddie Eastwood to that list too. We were and are sadly lacking up front. ROD was free and Platt cost £25k, rising to £50k with appearances and goals. You started this thread by saying our squad is good enough to stay up and then went on to list three of our five strikers who you feel are not good enough (although presumably McDonald is coming good now). I'm not sure... I was at Donny and would like the luxury of taking the likes of Chimbonda and Diouf on loan to mix things up (yes, Chimbonda is hit and miss, but he looked good on Saturday and yes, Diouf is a horrible piece of work, but we need some atttacking midfield flair - I am just giving examples that our hands are tied more than most in this league).

Our current squad IS good enough to survive. (3 Viewers)

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