Or are fans the solution? (1 Viewer)

MichaelCCFC · Mar 23, 2013

Back home after worst away trip in a long time - complete mess on and off the pitch, and I'm too old to be holding back (literally) one city fan from lamping another. Only bright spot was a pre match meet with Pompey Trust. They are within touching distance of ownership of their club, with Pompey Trust having 50-60% share and co-investors the rest. I always believed that in the end acl-sisu would come to an agreement because a successful ccfc is in everyone's interests. But maybe that was never going to happen and certainly isn't now. The Pompey trust have worked on the basis of some pretty straight forward ideas eg they were owned by supposedly successful businessmen and look what a mess they created; who is to say any new big investor will be any different so work with local ones who buy into the idea of a supporter led ownership model; and a sustainable long-term business plan is more important than promises of short term success based on unsound finance. Given the events of the last 48 hours at CCFC, is this the real way forward for us?

rob9872 · Mar 23, 2013

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fan-owned_sports_teams

See how many of them are doing well?

You're all just power hungry and it won't work. Need to be detatched frm it and not emotional knee jerk reactive fans with too many opinions. Ebsfleet is surely the biggest example of why its a bad idea. Nice sentiment but will end in faioure and you should onky be there to restart the phoenix if required.

SkyBlueRabb5 · Mar 23, 2013

I love the idea of supporter lead CCFC... I am completely naïve to how this would/could happen though... so my question is how?

wingy · Mar 23, 2013

rob9872 said:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fan-owned_sports_teams

See how many of them are doing well?

You're all just power hungry and it won't work. Need to be detatched frm it and not emotional knee jerk reactive fans with too many opinions. Ebsfleet is surely the biggest example of why its a bad idea. Nice sentiment but will end in faioure and you should onky be there to restart the phoenix if required.

What models operate on the Continent Micheal?Seem to remember reading that fans have a stake in Clubs over in Germany ,which is now bearing fruit as the most profitable league i believe.

Edit; Sorry post is in response to OP.

Nick · Mar 23, 2013

Quite like the voting idea about having a say BUT do a trust know how to run a football club?

MichaelCCFC · Mar 23, 2013

SkyBlueRabb5 said:
I love the idea of supporter lead CCFC... I am completely naïve to how this would/could happen though... so my question is how?

Pompey Trust have just stuck to the basic idea that supporter led ownership is the way to achieve a sustainable financial failure, grown their membership, worked with investors who share their vision and when an opportunity for change of ownership came they got 2k people buying a £1k share plus co-investors

SkyBlueRabb5 · Mar 23, 2013

After reading that wiki list quite a few alarm bells are ringing at the similarity of CCFC & Darlo......

Sky Blues · Mar 23, 2013

rob9872 said:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fan-owned_sports_teams

See how many of them are doing well?

You're all just power hungry and it won't work. Need to be detatched frm it and not emotional knee jerk reactive fans with too many opinions. Ebsfleet is surely the biggest example of why its a bad idea. Nice sentiment but will end in faioure and you should onky be there to restart the phoenix if required.

Yeah, Madrid and Barcelona suck. On a serious note, most of those in England are splinter teams or small clubs where the fans have taken over fairly recently. I don't recall it really being tested here yet with a team with decent attendances. As FFP puts the brakes on reckless spending, it could allow well run fan-owned clubs to rise up to a level in the game that roughly matches their level of support.

MichaelCCFC · Mar 23, 2013

rob9872 said:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fan-owned_sports_teams

See how many of them are doing well?

You're all just power hungry and it won't work. Need to be detatched frm it and not emotional knee jerk reactive fans with too many opinions. Ebsfleet is surely the biggest example of why its a bad idea. Nice sentiment but will end in faioure and you should onky be there to restart the phoenix if required.

Swansea was saved by Swans Trust and look how successful they are.

Wingy, yes Germany has a supporter led ownership model. Compare their ticket prices with ours!

MichaelCCFC · Mar 23, 2013

Nick said:
Quite like the voting idea about having a say BUT do a trust know how to run a football club?

Pompey answer to that would be do we think business people like Richardson, Robinson, McGinnity through to sisu have run ccfc successfully? I would add that I'm not an electrician, plumber or architect but I've always bought old houses and done them up - the skill is knowing what you want and employing people who can deliver it (plus knowing your income and budget and sticking to it)

rob9872 · Mar 23, 2013

We know , we keep hearing about swansea on here, but they became succesful post ownership. Saved being the operative word, but if there is an alternative that should be the preferred route.

What happens when you spend £50m (oknprobably nit true for sisu but will be significant) is there a reserve trust lined up for if you fail? If you say rules won't allow that then how do we everr compete ir are you uappy just'existing' in the league one area? I know I'm not and ultimately want that dream to have a possible reality. If yoiu extinguish that then what's the point of it at all. Just be happy that you exist to stop us dying completely and ready when all other avenues exhausted.

Black6Osprey · Mar 23, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
Swansea was saved by Swans Trust and look how successful they are.

Wingy, yes Germany has a supporter led ownership model. Compare their ticket prices with ours!

Yes Swansea made an £8m loss the year they got promoted. Is this the sustainable financial footing you talk about as it sounds like a typical club taking a risk on gaining promotion?

wingy · Mar 23, 2013

Black6Osprey said:
Yes Swansea made an £8m loss the year they got promoted. Is this the sustainable financial footing you talk about as it sounds like a typical club taking a risk on gaining promotion?

£17M. profit this year though.
Edit; that would equate to about the same aswewere losing in the Championship,possibly with less turnover,compare that to Bristol City's survival in the championship last year operating costs around £24M. turnover around £11M. loss obvious.

MichaelCCFC · Mar 23, 2013

rob9872 said:
We know , we keep hearing about swansea on here, but they became succesful post ownership. Saved being the operative word, but if there is an alternative that should be the preferred route.

What happens when you spend £50m (oknprobably nit true for sisu but will be significant) is there a reserve trust lined up for if you fail? If you say rules won't allow that then how do we everr compete ir are you uappy just'existing' in the league one area? I know I'm not and ultimately want that dream to have a possible reality. If yoiu extinguish that then what's the point of it at all. Just be happy that you exist to stop us dying completely and ready when all other avenues exhausted.

Swans trust now own 20% of club and have 2 directors on club board!

rob9872 · Mar 23, 2013

20% is not the same as owning it.

Nick · Mar 23, 2013

How do the directors get chosen?

Black6Osprey · Mar 23, 2013

wingy said:
£17M. profit this year though.

Absolutely, but if they hadn't been promoted?..

The point is they took a risk which is unfortunately what most clubs do if they actually want to be successful and I find them an odd model for the Trust to base ourselves on when they want to promote (rightly IMO) only spending what we've got.

rob9872 · Mar 23, 2013

ve also jyst read that swansea were backed by hartson, toshack, max boyce and some mp(s) ... we have jan michael and natalie.

LarryGrayson · Mar 23, 2013

we owned 20 per cent of city before sisu doesnt have to be thru a trust

Black6Osprey · Mar 23, 2013

rob9872 said:
ve also jyst read that swansea were backed by hartson, toshack, max boyce and some mp(s) ... we have jan michael and natalie.

Perhaps we could get the drummer from King and one of lesser known ones from the Specials to give a fiver each.

stupot07 · Mar 23, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
Swansea was saved by Swans Trust and look how successful they are.

Wingy, yes Germany has a supporter led ownership model. Compare their ticket prices with ours!

The big difference between us an Swansea is expectations. They built from the bottom with only wanting to build a stable club. Our fans still see us a sleeping giant and will expect any new owners to invest a lot of money on players, fund losses and do what is necessary to get back to the PL.

MichaelCCFC · Mar 23, 2013

Black6Osprey said:
Absolutely, but if they hadn't been promoted?..

The point is they took a risk which is unfortunately what most clubs do if they actually want to be successful and I find them an odd model for the Trust to base ourselves on when they want to promote (rightly IMO) only spending what we've got.

Swansea and Pompey are interesting examples to learn from - what we need is a Coventry model of supporter ownership that works for us. I'm old enough to remember the glory days of '87 and our other highlights of the 70s through to early 90s and just want to see something better than the misery of the last 10/15 years. Remember, we all had high hopes of sisu. If anyone has a better idea than let's cross our fingers for a rich bloke who might be like man city rather than Blackburn, Birmingham etc let's hear it!

MichaelCCFC · Mar 23, 2013

rob9872 said:
ve also jyst read that swansea were backed by hartson, toshack, max boyce and some mp(s) ... we have jan michael and natalie.

No one on trust board called natalie - don't understand who you are talking about

Grendel · Mar 23, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
Swansea and Pompey are interesting examples to learn from - what we need is a Coventry model of supporter ownership that works for us. I'm old enough to remember the glory days of '87 and our other highlights of the 70s through to early 90s and just want to see something better than the misery of the last 10/15 years. Remember, we all had high hopes of sisu. If anyone has a better idea than let's cross our fingers for a rich bloke who might be like man city rather than Blackburn, Birmingham etc let's hear it!

Problem is though the Trust does not seem a very cohesive unit does it? It has been going for some time but the mission statement is still confusing and there does not seem any real strategy. I accept difficulties under the current ownership but there will come a time when it has to seem more credible and heading in a specific direction.

rob9872 · Mar 23, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
Swansea and Pompey are interesting examples to learn from - what we need is a Coventry model of supporter ownership that works for us. I'm old enough to remember the glory days of '87 and our other highlights of the 70s through to early 90s and just want to see something better than the misery of the last 10/15 years. Remember, we all had high hopes of sisu. If anyone has a better idea than let's cross our fingers for a rich bloke who might be like man city rather than Blackburn, Birmingham etc let's hear it!

Or that the council do the right thing even if not to sisu and let any potentialnew owner have the ground so that we actually have a chance.

Nick · Mar 23, 2013

Grendel said:
Problem is though the Trust does not seem a very cohesive unit does it? It has been going for some time but the mission statement is still confusing and there does not seem any real strategy. I accept difficulties under the current ownership but there will come a time when it has to seem more credible and heading in a specific direction.

The mission is to get a seat on the board...

rob9872 · Mar 23, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
No one on trust board called natalie - don't understand who you are talking about

So the board now will be the board then ... great glad that's sorted nice and fairly. How much of my hard earned should I give you?

Spencer · Mar 23, 2013

Grendel said:
Problem is though the Trust does not seem a very cohesive unit does it? It has been going for some time but the mission statement is still confusing and there does not seem any real strategy. I accept difficulties under the current ownership but there will come a time when it has to seem more credible and heading in a specific direction.

Unfortunately, we as fans are not very cohesive so, it is doubtful, a trust, which is representative of the fans, would be. Perhaps, if things started to move along with the trust we would become united behind it?

I certainly hope so as all the bickering that is currently happening is in danger of ripping the club apart.

MichaelCCFC · Mar 23, 2013

Grendel said:
Problem is though the Trust does not seem a very cohesive unit does it? It has been going for some time but the mission statement is still confusing and there does not seem any real strategy. I accept difficulties under the current ownership but there will come a time when it has to seem more credible and heading in a specific direction.

Rome wasn't built in a day...very interesting hearing pompey trust talk about how long the process has been for them. Remember, a year ago the sky blue trust was moribund. New board was elected in July as individuals who for the most part didn't even know each other. In management theory we've got through the forming stage and successfully got through the challenge of being able to disagree but stick to a broad consensus based on members' views. First new leaflet was written in about five minutes, latest version spells out a vision of a successful ccfc. So yeah, it's a process but great in talking to pompey trust to hear they've been through it and sky blue trust is developing in the right direction

MichaelCCFC · Mar 23, 2013

rob9872 said:
Or that the council do the right thing even if not to sisu and let any potentialnew owner have the ground so that we actually have a chance.

Rob, I'm intrigued. Who is this Natalie you mentioned?

rob9872 · Mar 23, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
Rome wasn't built in a day...very interesting hearing pompey trust talk about how long the process has been for them. Remember, a year ago the sky blue trust was moribund. New board was elected in July as individuals who for the most part didn't even know each other. In management theory we've got through the forming stage and successfully got through the challenge of being able to disagree but stick to a broad consensus based on members' views. First new leaflet was written in about five minutes, latest version spells out a vision of a successful ccfc. So yeah, it's a process but great in talking to pompey trust to hear they've been through it and sky blue trust is developing in the right direction

Perhaps aswell or jan would take his bat and ball and crete another new club. Rinse and repeat.

rob9872 · Mar 23, 2013

Natalie cox, man utd fan who started the trust before the trust

Steve.B50 · Mar 23, 2013

Rob9872
Who is Natalie?

If the Trust have any ideas then they should throw them open to discussion, as they are doing so.

Your answer to the present situation is ?

shmmeee · Mar 23, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
Rome wasn't built in a day...very interesting hearing pompey trust talk about how long the process has been for them. Remember, a year ago the sky blue trust was moribund. New board was elected in July as individuals who for the most part didn't even know each other. In management theory we've got through the forming stage and successfully got through the challenge of being able to disagree but stick to a broad consensus based on members' views. First new leaflet was written in about five minutes, latest version spells out a vision of a successful ccfc. So yeah, it's a process but great in talking to pompey trust to hear they've been through it and sky blue trust is developing in the right direction

Michael, inactive trust member here, what attempts have been made to get some recognisable faces and serious cash on board? I'd have though the likes of Gould, Hall, Whelan who have all expressed a love of the club, would be easy pickings. Followed by a few local businessmen who could provide tent pole investment should a takeover be needed.

Giving people a face they know would also help membership I'd imagine.

I'd also suggest less of a focus on who is right or wrong in press dealings and more on the idea of fan ownership. Give people details, its a plan a lot will get begin if they see straightforward answers to the kind of concerns raised on this thread.

You guys are doing a great job, Just wanted to drop in a few points I've noticed.

MichaelCCFC · Mar 23, 2013

rob9872 said:
Natalie cox, man utd fan who started the trust before the trust

None the wiser I'm afraid. Certainly not on current trust board.

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