torchomatic
Well-Known Member
LEs Reid? YEah, I get you. Jim Brown? Geoff Mann? Really, do they have an "agenda"?
Sorry dude but I think you're clutching at straws. There ain't going to be an investigation based on if's and but's especially when you consider where the "demands" for an investigation are coming from. The only chance of an investigation will be of the back of the audit whenever that happens. I also suspect that the quarters that are "demanding" an investigation know this. It's almost as if they have a separate agenda and are trying to use some pissed of football fans to do their bidding.
People go on about "attitude" and how going to see City, buying a ST, etc just excuses SISU and the damage they have done. All the "but what will it achieve" comments are just the same. CCC will get away with bringing in London Wasps and ensuring we will never own the Ricoh because a lot of people either ignore it because it's CCC and they are above reproach or they say but "what will it achieve".
A public body should be squeaky clean and open to all scrutiny.
Yes I agree with you, and I also agree with other comments made (NW and duffer have made a fair few good ones). I do think that there should be an inquiry, but it just seems to be a bit of a pointless exercise in that I genuinely think all we would achieve is a few resignations whilst we are left still picking up the pieces. You only have to look at current affairs to see nothing will be done (HSBC .... Jack Straw etc). The system is fucked. As my trading friend said recently "The game is bent from the top down".
Even if it was just "a few resignations" then it will have achieved something. If Lucas, Reeves or whoever have stitched us up then they should be held to account. Substitute CCC for SISU and this forum would have crashed by now.
People say that like they can just snap their fingers and it will happen. It ignores the state of those industries. The Ricoh got a lot of outdoor events while Villa Park was being refurbished. That work is now complete and any booking agent is going to prefer their band playing a city the size of Birmingham with a lot more potential casual punter, at a bigger capacity stadium generating more revenue. Similarly the takeover of the NEC could have a big impact, it is reasonable to expect the new owners will go all out and they have a bigger and better facility in a better location.
Don't get me wrong the Ricoh is a great venue but its not as easy as Wasps just going lets make a few million extra.
All I want to add, if these self appointed spokesmen and "professionals" want an enquiry, they should put their money on the table and pay for themselves and that includes CCC legal cost, why should a single penny of tax payers hard earned money be wasted on what will just be a pissing match...
Why would there be legal costs? It's not a court case, it's an enquiry.
Yes I agree with you, and I also agree with other comments made (NW and duffer have made a fair few good ones). I do think that there should be an inquiry, but it just seems to be a bit of a pointless exercise in that I genuinely think all we would achieve is a few resignations whilst we are left still picking up the pieces. You only have to look at current affairs to see nothing will be done (HSBC .... Jack Straw etc). The system is fucked. As my trading friend said recently "The game is bent from the top down".
You are kidding?
no organisation is going into an inquiry without representation. Who do you think will be presenting the questions to CCC, FRED BLOGGS from down the road, nope it will be some shyster on £2500 a day, they won't be in a rush to do it in a couple of days.
then there will be administrative costs incurred in preparing documentation, staff costs and expenses for the witnesses.
But nevermind, the council have plenty of money so that's not a problem at all is it.
there'd be more support for an inquiry into SISU's ownership & management.Even if it was just "a few resignations" then it will have achieved something. If Lucas, Reeves or whoever have stitched us up then they should be held to account. Substitute CCC for SISU and this forum would have crashed by now.
there'd be more support for an inquiry into SISU's ownership & management.
the comparison is unfair in that SISU being a private company isn't held to the same standards of openness as the council.
as for the morality arguments etc. haven't SISU already been found by the courts to have deliberately distress ACL?
Although if Tim Fisher and Steve Waggot do midget throwing in the board room, that would take them up in my estimations!
It's still not a court case.
No, the city doesn't have plenty of money (it's not the councils money, you know), but the council have created this situation and should not be allowed to hide behind a standard auditor report prepared by the same auditor who was involved in the sales process.
The Godiva Festival got 125,000 people over a weekend, most spending all day, yet CCC are looking at cutting it to Bill-annual or totally scrapping it.
Using some councillors calculations that would be about £50 million lost to the economy.
Over a weekend.
Hypothetically speaking of course (but is a scenario that has a good chance of happening), if public money is used for this (and not used on the things it was designated for) and the outcome is that there has been no wrongdoing and everything has been done to the letter of the law, will you be comfortable with the fact that public money has been wasted.
If others want this full enquiry, why can't they (and people like you) pay for it, then if there is found to be wrongdoing, actions can be taken. At least then if all is ok from a CCC point of view then public money is not wasted.
But that makes and Inquiry all the more important. SISU are a hedge fund and do what the fuck they want as we have seen. The Council do not have that luxury. And yes, SISU were trying to distress ACL. Similarly CCC have made sure that the city's football club NEVER get a slice of their home ground for at least 250 years. I want to know the details of how the deal came about and when. I would have thought because of the impact the decision has had on our football club - a new stadium seeming our only option - then every fan of the club would want to know the details.
You build a hypothesis on two 'if's' - that alone shows the outcome is uncertain. This justify the use of resources to remove the uncertainty.
Don't you think some of the councillors who was 'whipped' to vote in favour now wonder if they really were given all - and correct - information?
You build a hypothesis on two 'if's' - that alone shows the outcome is uncertain. This justify the use of resources to remove the uncertainty.
Don't you think some of the councillors who was 'whipped' to vote in favour now wonder if they really were given all - and correct - information?
So what you're saying is that Sisu/Otium can do what the fuck they like because they are a hedge fund, yet the Council have to be under absolute scrutiny for every decision they make.
Absolutely, it's not fair, but it's how it is.
A lot oppose sisu using NOPM as an instrument - but it's not like you can use NOPM if you're unhappy with the council. That's not fair either, but that's just how it is.
It's still not a court case.
No, the city doesn't have plenty of money (it's not the councils money, you know), but the council have created this situation and should not be allowed to hide behind a standard auditor report prepared by the same auditor who was involved in the sales process.
Absolutely, it's not fair, but it's how it is.
A lot oppose sisu using NOPM as an instrument - but it's not like you can use NOPM if you're unhappy with the council. That's not fair either, but that's just how it is.
Yes I do wonder and that is why I have no objections to it being looked at, just I don't think public money should be used because people (some of which have an agenda) ask for it.
I did. I said resources used to remove the uncertainty is justified - so not a waste no matter the result.However, any chance of you answering the question I asked, or will you continue on your politician like swerve?
Do you want to pay for it, I dont...
Has anyone connected to the open letter actually thought to ask their local councillor this either directly or by letter? Or have they just gone straight to open letter?
So what you're saying is that Sisu/Otium can do what the fuck they like because they are a hedge fund, yet the Council have to be under absolute scrutiny for every decision they make. Every time you or anybody else thinks that something untoward has happened, then we should be having enquiries for it all. Yes, the deal should be looked at but I also think that all the shit Sisu have pulled needs to be looked at too. Nice to know you don't think the same, else why wouldn't you be calling for it too?
Also, shouldn't you have said that Sisu and CCC have made sure that the City's football club MAY never get a slice of their home ground. I say MAY as we never know what is around the corner, Sisu and CCC have taught us that.
What really makes me laugh about you is that you positioned yourself as balanced and looking at it from both side but you never do, with the posts you write and the articles you put up.
I'm not one of those connected to the letter but I have, via my father as I'm not a local resident anymore, asked questions. Everything comes back as confidential, even things that couldn't possibly be covered by any confidentiality agreement with Wasps.
CCC know there are people who have doubts over the whole process, why not come out and give answers instead of hiding behind confidentiality?
Has anyone connected to the open letter actually thought to ask their local councillor this either directly or by letter? Or have they just gone straight to open letter?
This must be a Godsend for SISSYU. All this distraction and deflection away from them. Meanwhile the real victims (the mugged fans) can only watch on as CCFC is seen to bleed to death by another cut.
And next into the arena the cunning stunts of Faggott and Wisher.
No, I'm not. I'm saying SISU get away with it as they are not a public body and don't use taxpayers money. . Sad, but true. the Council cannot get away with it because they ARE a public body and use public money.
I've never said we should have an enquiry about absolutely everything, but on such a massive decision as this, then yes there should be.
I'll ignore your usual "lack of balance" dig because your a poster with a "lack of balance" yourself.
You could equally say it's a Godsend for the Council that they're allowed to act cloak and dagger with the city's heritage with relatively little outcry... because of SISU.
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