Okay, turning the Thorn thing on it's head (1 Viewer)

Otis · Sep 21, 2011

Instead of judging Thorn and whether or not he is doing a good job, let's turn the situation on it's head.

Okay, let's just suppose for a second that Thorn is sacked and Gus Poyet comes in, in his place.

I chose Poyet him because he appears to be a really good manager and he's right up there at the top with his Brighton team. (Doesn't have to be Poyet of course, any manager of a similar ilk who is doing really well would suffice, but let's just suppose Poyet for the sake of it).

So, Thorn out, Poyet in , same players. No transfers, no loans. Exactly same squad.

Would we do any better or not?

CovKingChris · Sep 21, 2011

no. Simples.

brinner · Sep 21, 2011

like i said on the other thread i dont think theres much any manager could do with this squad we have, keeping us up as we are would be a feat for mourinho let alone thorn!!

look at it the other way round, if thorn had £5 million + to spend would we be 4th from bottom?? i think not, infact had we kept king, gunnarssson and signed pacheco on loan then i rekon we would be about 4th top by now.

Otis · Sep 21, 2011

Agree.

So why are people giving Thorn stick?

I think a really good manager could perhaps do a little better, but not a lot and we are talking very small margins. Not enough to get us to mid-table. Still think we would be there or thereabouts near the bottom.

Thorn is doing the best he can do but any manager can only work with the tools he's been given to do the job.

CovKingChris · Sep 21, 2011

Poyet has had money to spend. They have a great stadium which sells out every week.

They had the money to spend £3.25million on CMS, if we had that kind of money to spend on one player, we'd be right up there.

brinner · Sep 21, 2011

i think some people got a little over excited by the derby win and also got a bit carried away with the mcdonald signing.

look at the way ppl have bigged up gael, yes he is a good prospect but you would have thought we have unearthed the new pele if you believed some on here! he has way exceeded expectations so far but looked the novice he is on monday and its time he and cyrus are taken out of the side for a game or 2, problem is who do we play?? we have limited options, particuarly in midfield and thats the problem.

skyblueinBaku · Sep 21, 2011

With the squad we have, and the money available, I can't think of anyone who would do a much better job than AT.

We'll_live_and_die · Sep 21, 2011

Thorn seems to be doing a great job to me. Besides Monday, we are actually playing well. We just don't seem able to convert our chances.

SkyBlueScottie · Sep 21, 2011

Thats the positive for me, on Monday despite playing poorly we still created very good chances.

brinner · Sep 21, 2011

Andy Thorns sky blue army! WE HATE SISU!!!

Sub · Sep 21, 2011

if we had alex ferguson in charge we would still strugle

kg82 · Sep 21, 2011

Rich said:
Thorn seems to be doing a great job to me. Besides Monday, we are actually playing well. We just don't seem able to convert our chances.

Completely agree. What pleased me most about Monday was McDonald. His movement was fantastic. Yes, he missed some glorious opportunities but he hasn't played a competitive game of football for 5-6 months apart from the week before and look how much he'd improved from that game. I think after so long out you're going to be rusty, but I'm expecting him to come good in the next 2-3 games.

Macca · Sep 21, 2011

I can't believe this is even being discussed (though I know this thread is just a reaction to others from yesterday)

We know nothing about Thorn. I don't buy this business of him being the best manager since "insert name here" and similarly I don't see any evidence that he is in any way a bad choice.

Far far too early. End of last season is irrelevant. Teams below us put no pressure on us and it allowed the team to show off a bit in some meaningless games. This season has barely started.

And most importantly as Otis says, what difference would anyone else make???

stupot07 · Sep 21, 2011

brinner said:
i think some people got a little over excited by the derby win

Agreed, but I also think some people are being over negative because of 1 bad loss against a very experience and quality Ipswich side.

I think we're an below average aside that plays good football, but won't score enough goals to stay up. Thorn's doing the best he can do with the tools he's got. I personally think we need to give him a couple of years to develop the system and squad, whether we get relegated or not.

We'll_live_and_die · Sep 21, 2011

stupot07 said:
Agreed, but I also think some people are being over negative because of 1 bad loss against a very experience and quality Ipswich side.

I think we're an below average aside that plays good football, but won't score enough goals to stay up. Thorn's doing the best he can do with the tools he's got. I personally think we need to give him a couple of years to develop the system and squad, whether we get relegated or not.

I agree if he built this team up in league 1, hopefully we would be strong enough to bounce back and with the attractive footballing style, the academy will bring through some quality and people like ALF might actually want to join us as a club heading in the right direction.

Mumford and Daughter · Sep 21, 2011

Ok, firstly im not saying for one moment we should sack Thorn, i’m just implementing that im starting to lose confidence in Thorn with some of his decisions and tactics. There is a Difference between sacking and losing confidence.
As you’re turning things on its head Otis.
Wasn’t Blackpool 2 years ago in a similar position. No money limited funds yet Holloway managed wonders and got promotion with what could be said a worse team than ours. So it can be done. With the right manager.

Otis · Sep 21, 2011

I think even if we are relegated we should stick by him and let him build foundations.

The proviso of this of course being that he doesn't prove himself to be incompetent as the season wears on in terms of making ridiculously daft decisions tactically and in his deployment of subs etc. and/or falling out with the players.

We'll_live_and_die · Sep 21, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Ok, firstly im not saying for one moment we should sack Thorn, i’m just implementing that im starting to lose confidence in Thorn with some of his decisions and tactics. There is a Difference between sacking and losing confidence.
As you’re turning things on its head Otis.
Wasn’t Blackpool 2 years ago in a similar position. No money limited funds yet Holloway managed wonders and got promotion with what could be said a worse team than ours. So it can be done. With the right manager.

Was Charlie Adam in that team?

Mumford and Daughter · Sep 21, 2011

Rich said:
Was Charlie Adam in that team?

Yes a Charlie Adam that cost 500,000.
Is this Blackpool team seriously better than our current crop? By the way thats the tema that beat us 3-0 that bank holiday.
Rachubka, Eardley, Edwards, Evatt, Crainey, Taylor-Fletcher, Southern, Adam, Euell, Ormerod, Burgess

kg82 · Sep 21, 2011

Well, it obviously was better than ours. Not just about the players is it, it's about how they play together. That team's very experienced. Like has already been said, people are being over-negative about one bad result. I'm not surprised though, it's a typical football fan thing to do isn't it.

stupot07 · Sep 21, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Yes a Charlie Adam that cost 500,000.
Is this Blackpool team seriously better than our current crop? By the way thats the tema that beat us 3-0 that bank holiday.
Rachubka, Eardley, Edwards, Evatt, Crainey, Taylor-Fletcher, Southern, Adam, Euell, Ormerod, Burgess

Yes they are - they finished in the top six after 46 games. Consistency, form and a bit quality in the attacking third- Adam, Taylor-fletcher and ormerod all score goals. 7 or 8 of that team also played the majority of last season in the premier league, and did quite well.

To say they are no better than us is being a bit arrogant considering we have finished 18-19th for the last 8 or 9 seasons since relegation.

Mumford and Daughter · Sep 21, 2011

kg82 said:
Well, it obviously was better than ours. Not just about the players is it, it's about how they play together. That team's very experienced. Like has already been said, people are being over-negative about one bad result. I'm not surprised though, it's a typical football fan thing to do isn't it.

KG-Under Thorn We’ve only won 4 games out of 17. That’s a very poor return. Less than 25% win rate.Maybe Monday night just highlights the issues more.

kg82 · Sep 21, 2011

And we've only lost 5. Which shows we're stubborn. And we need to start converting our chances. Listen, if you want to go through every season losing confidence in each manager then fair enough. The wider picture is Thorns had players leave and not been able to replace them, has only just got a striker in, had a stupid amount of injuries and been dealt the smallest squad in the league. I'm not saying he's the messiah, I'm saying he's doing what he can and people are talking about losing confidence with him after 17 games.

Mumford and Daughter · Sep 21, 2011

kg82 said:
And we've only lost 5. Which shows we're stubborn. And we need to start converting our chances. Listen, if you want to go through every season losing confidence in each manager then fair enough. The wider picture is Thorns had players leave and not been able to replace them, has only just got a striker in, had a stupid amount of injuries and been dealt the smallest squad in the league. I'm not saying he's the messiah, I'm saying he's doing what he can and people are talking about losing confidence with him after 17 games.

I would rather lose a couple of more games to win a couple if you know what i mean.
That is a valid point and i know where you coming from but we’ve got to stop feeling sorry for him. He’s getting sympathy vote of fans. He is a nice guy but is a good manager? Like you say can’t really judge on 17 games but i starting to see cracks in the foundations. Just hope im proved wrong.

kg82 · Sep 21, 2011

I'm not being sympathetic, I'm being understanding. There were cracks in our foundations a long time before Thorn came in.

Fluffsta · Sep 21, 2011

Who better than Thorn in this situation?

Since he has took over we have lost our best talent and the guy has had less to spend than pretty much every club in every league yet still in my opinion still plays attractive football with so little talent and we have picked up a win under him against a team in good form.

FFS - Give the guy some time and let him nurture the youngsters. If some money is made available down the road I am sure he will use it wisely with his scout background.

Otis · Sep 21, 2011

kg82 said:
And we've only lost 5. Which shows we're stubborn. And we need to start converting our chances. Listen, if you want to go through every season losing confidence in each manager then fair enough. The wider picture is Thorns had players leave and not been able to replace them, has only just got a striker in, had a stupid amount of injuries and been dealt the smallest squad in the league. I'm not saying he's the messiah, I'm saying he's doing what he can and people are talking about losing confidence with him after 17 games.

This is the thing that worries me. We really, really need Juke and McDonald to get somewhere in the region of 15+ this season for us to be able to survive. A lot of pressure on these two. Platt is never going to get many, nor ROD. The only hope is that Sheff an/or Freddie contribute greatly.

Boy do we need McDonald to come good and come good quickly. We have scored 4 goals in 7 games. We need to start taking our chances or we are doomed.

kg82 · Sep 21, 2011

Otis said:
This is the thing that worries me. We really, really need Juke and McDonald to get somewhere in the region of 15+ this season for us to be able to survive. A lot of pressure on these two. Platt is never going to get many, nor ROD. The only hope is that Sheff an/or Freddie contribute greatly.

Boy do we need McDonald to come good and come good quickly. We have scored 4 goals in 7 games. We need to start taking our chances or we are doomed.

My opinion - I think you could see the quality McDonald has the other day but his finishing was rusty. That's fair enough after 5 months not playing. I think he'll come good. Also, since McDonald's come in, ROD has come on and looked pretty good!! Surprising what a little competition for places can do isn't it.

Notorious B.I.Girimana · Sep 21, 2011

I echo the sentiments of others: No-one could do a better job than Thorny with our current squad. If he had his current record and had spent 3-4 million on
Players then i could understand the negativity! Yes, he needs to learn to take a wiser, more defensive approach away from home, but i personally love his approach to the game. As has been said a trillion times by others, he desperately requires help from the board!! ANDY THORN'S SKY BLUE ARMY!!

Sky Blue Sheepy · Sep 21, 2011

I would say he's also being given grace because of the attractive style of football he tries to play. The well known fact is we create plenty of chances - we lack the ability to take them. There's only so much the manager can do to solve that - you can coach finishing but the players upfront need ability too. So actually I think he's doing pretty well. Stick in a Kevin Phillips-style player and we'd bag plenty of goals.

SydneySkyBlue · Sep 21, 2011

kg82 said:
My opinion - I think you could see the quality McDonald has the other day but his finishing was rusty. That's fair enough after 5 months not playing. I think he'll come good.

I agree. Had it not been for that interception by Sonko in which he got injured that one was flying into the back of the net. He looks a natural goalscorer, just a little bit rusty at the moment like you said.

kg82 · Sep 21, 2011

GinettasStickySofa said:
I agree. Had it not been for that interception by Sonko in which he got injured that one was flying into the back of the net. He looks a natural goalscorer, just a little bit rusty at the moment like you said.

Yeah, there was that one and the one cleared off the line where the bloke defending the post was, for some unknown (but highly typical) reason, 2 yards in from said post!

SydneySkyBlue · Sep 21, 2011

kg82 said:
Yeah, there was that one and the one cleared off the line where the bloke defending the post was, for some unknown (but highly typical) reason, 2 yards in from said post!

Didn't notice that. Like you said, typical.

As Otis says, we are going to need Cody to get back to 100% sooner rather later but he's unlucky not to be on the scoresheet already.

kg82 · Sep 21, 2011

Well, the improvement from his first game to his second was fantastic and if that's anything to go by I reckon we'll be seeing him on the scoresheet soon. What we don't want is an injury.

ashbyjan · Sep 21, 2011

It has been discussed before whether AT has the easiest job in football or the hardest - easiest because we all know he has no money, has players sold from under him, has a board who won't support him and therefore no sane fan expects anything this season and if we stay up it will be a brilliant managerial achievement therefore there is little pressure on him to deliver results or is it the hardest because he has to motivate and keep happy players who are surrounded by apathy, mediocrity (at best) and a losing mentality, he has to try a put a team out to compete made up of poor experienced players and kids who have potential.
Personally I am happy with what he has achieved so far even if the results don't fully reflect this - we are attempting to play football but in my opinion AT is being let down by some of the players he should be able to rely on - Bell is simply under performing, Eastwood is a disgrace to the term professional footballer, Baker is simply not good enough along with McSheffrey. Without these four we are left with no midfield and a strike force of little experience.
As has been said Morinho, Ferguson and Wenger would struggle to get results with the useless shower that AT has to work with, both on and off the pitch.

Okay, turning the Thorn thing on it's head (1 Viewer)

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