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New FOIs. No contact. (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter CJ_covblaze
  • Start date Dec 28, 2014
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N

Noggin

New Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #106
Nick said:
Apparently according to Google (may be wrong) each FOI is a couple of hundred quid in costs each.

There are 13 FOI's there....
Click to expand...

don't be silly, you surely understand better than that.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #107
Noggin said:
don't be silly, you surely understand better than that.
Click to expand...

What is silly about it?

Do FOI's not incur costs somewhere?
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #108
Nick said:
What is silly about it?

Do FOI's not incur costs somewhere?
Click to expand...

of course they do but each request is going to be different, the suggestion that a FOI request costs a couple of hundred is ludicrous, some of them will, some of them will cost much more, some much less.

If it requires one person to read a letter, check through a few files, respond to the letter using much of a template and then post a response, it probably costs about 20 quid, however that 20 quid is mostly in wage costs that would have been paid anyway, so in many cases the real cost is about a quid.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #109
I was going by average costs... They may well be less, but I was just going by average like Google said (I did state that).

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/constitution-unit/research/foi/countries/cost-of-foi.pdf

I am no expert, I am not claiming to be either hence I am asking about.
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #110
Nick said:
I was going by average costs... They may well be less, but I was just going by average like Google said (I did state that).

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/constitution-unit/research/foi/countries/cost-of-foi.pdf
Click to expand...

yes but my point is that using an average cost for something that has wildly different requirements is ludicrous, especially when its incredibly obvious that these requests are nothing like difficult to respond too.
 
L

LB87ccfc

Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #111
Nick said:
Apparently according to Google (may be wrong) each FOI is a couple of hundred quid in costs each.

There are 13 FOI's there....
Click to expand...

That's the trust's fighting fund gone then. Everyone's pound put to good use for information which has been plainly obvious for over 18 months now.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #112
It isn't the trust paying it, it is the tax payer (according to google).

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/foi-requester-cost-taxpayer-23000-x.19475391
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #113
Nick said:
It isn't the trust paying it, it is the tax payer (according to google).

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/foi-requester-cost-taxpayer-23000-x.19475391
Click to expand...

It is the tax payer, the trust have now cost the tax payer a few minutes of each councils time and the price of printing the letters and posting them, shocking. But you've got to keep up the sisu defence making the other side look bad at every opportunity.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #114
Noggin said:
It is the tax payer, the trust have now cost the tax payer a few minutes of each councils time and the price of printing the letters and posting them, shocking. But you've got to keep up the sisu defence making the other side look bad at every opportunity.
Click to expand...

I am not defending anybody, I could have told you the answers to the FOI before it was even sent

But if you say it is the price of a letter and then posting them you must be right and all the links I have posted saying otherwise are wrong.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #115
Noggin said:
It is the tax payer, the trust have now cost the tax payer a few minutes of each councils time and the price of printing the letters and posting them, shocking. But you've got to keep up the sisu defence making the other side look bad at every opportunity.
Click to expand...

Come on. This is multiple times worse than costing the taxpayers thousands and thousands in defending expensive litigation. Only a council appologist would think otherwise.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #116
skybluetony176 said:
Come on. This is multiple times worse than costing the taxpayers thousands and thousands in defending expensive litigation. Only a council appologist would think otherwise.
Click to expand...

How much taxpayers money has been spent?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #117
skybluetony176 said:
Come on. This is multiple times worse than costing the taxpayers thousands and thousands in defending expensive litigation. Only a council appologist would think otherwise.
Click to expand...

Didn't SISU pay for the councils fees?

Could be worse, it could be thousands and thousands to a PR company I guess.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #118
Grendel said:
How much taxpayers money has been spent?
Click to expand...

All the legal fees by SISU wasn't it? Oh and then the council workers time which would have been paid anyway
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #119
skybluetony176 said:
Come on. This is multiple times worse than costing the taxpayers thousands and thousands in defending expensive litigation. Only a council appologist would think otherwise.
Click to expand...

That will be me then
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #120
Nick said:
I am not defending anybody, I could have told you the answers to the FOI before it was even sent

But if you say it is the price of a letter and then posting them you must be right and all the links I have posted saying otherwise are wrong.
Click to expand...

I guess I was giving you too much credit when I said not to be silly and you understand better than that.

none of the links you posted remotely suggest that these requests are expensive.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #121
Noggin said:
I guess I was giving you too much credit when I said not to be silly and you understand better than that.

none of the links you posted remotely suggest that these requests are expensive.
Click to expand...

Can you post me one that says each request is just done by a temp in an office on minimum wage within a couple of minutes and then posted out then? To be fair you could be right about them being done like that at CCC, hence they don't send them out correct

I am always happy to be corrected on anything I post. (which does happen a fair bit so I have to be )

I am no expert on it, I don't claim to be I just found a document giving the average price for a FOI....
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #122
Noggin said:
I guess I was giving you too much credit when I said not to be silly and you understand better than that.

none of the links you posted remotely suggest that these requests are expensive.
Click to expand...

How much are they then?

I assume you know or it will be you looking pretty silly.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #123
Nick said:
Didn't SISU pay for the councils fees?

Could be worse, it could be thousands and thousands to a PR company I guess.
Click to expand...

Plus countless hours in time and effort. Still its not like the council have anything else better to do.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #124
skybluetony176 said:
Plus countless hours in time and effort. Still its not like the council have anything else better to do.
Click to expand...
They are being paid any way so what's it matter? That's not my logic by the way and I'm not saying this causes more disruption than a court case either...
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #125
Nick said:
Can you post me one that says each request is just done by a temp in an office on minimum wage within a couple of minutes and then posted out then? To be fair you could be right about them being done like that at CCC, hence they don't send them out correct

I am always happy to be corrected on anything I post. (which does happen a fair bit so I have to be )

I am no expert on it, I don't claim to be I just found a document giving the average price for a FOI....
Click to expand...

I don't disagree that the average price of an FOI request is £300 or whatever the link says, but that number is utterly meaningless when wondering how much these FOI requests cost. It's incredibly obvious that these requests cost almost nothing, it's an easy question for them to answer, Your link says that 5% of FOI requests amount for 45% of the costs and that the average foi request takes 8 hours to deal with. You can't possibly think these took anything more than a few minutes
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #126
Grendel said:
How much are they then?

I assume you know or it will be you looking pretty silly.
Click to expand...

no I won't. All they had to do was read a letter, find out the answer to a simple question they almost certainly already know the answer to and reply to the letter, it's 30 mins job at the worst. The actual cost will include that persons time so it's quite possible they would consider it about £20.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #127
Noggin said:
I don't disagree that the average price of an FOI request is £300 or whatever the link says, but that number is utterly meaningless when wondering how much these FOI requests cost. It's incredibly obvious that these requests cost almost nothing, it's an easy question for them to answer, Your link says that 5% of FOI requests amount for 45% of the costs and that the average foi request takes 8 hours to deal with. You can't possibly think these took anything more than a few minutes
Click to expand...
So you don't know how much? I don't doubt there are some that take weeks and cost thousands abd thousands and I'm obviously not saying these did...
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #128
Nick said:
They are being paid any way so what's it matter? That's not my logic by the way and I'm not saying this causes more disruption than a court case either...
Click to expand...


So would you rather council employees were spending their time and effort on SISU or child services?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #129
Noggin said:
no I won't. All they had to do was read a letter, find out the answer to a simple question they almost certainly already know the answer to and reply to the letter, it's 30 mins job at the worst. The actual cost will include that persons time so it's quite possible they would consider it about £20.
Click to expand...

So you don't actually know then.

Fucking hell.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #130
skybluetony176 said:
So would you rather council employees were spending their time and effort on SISU or child services?
Click to expand...

Oh don't be stupid.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #131
Grendel said:
Oh don't be stupid.
Click to expand...

Aside from the fact I wasn't asking you, you started it.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #132
skybluetony176 said:
Aside from the fact I wasn't asking you, you started it.
Click to expand...

If you seriously think that anyone involved in child support services will be involved in preparing legal background work to defend against a judicial review you are stupid.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #133
skybluetony176 said:
So would you rather council employees were spending their time and effort on SISU or child services?
Click to expand...
Of course..... Although bringing child services into it is a bit harsh isn't it? Especially with cccs record.

(Of course I don't, I think child services should be one of the things at the top of the list)
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #134
Nick said:
So you don't know how much?
Click to expand...

Of course not, I don''t know what each member of staff is paid, what they pay for postage, electricity, paper.

It's like posting the average professional football salary is 1 mill a year and we have 25 players so ........

anyone with any sense would point out that there is no way we are paying anything like that and this is the case here too, these are simple requests and you should not be inferring that an average cost is at all relevent when that number is pushed up massively by the expensive ones.
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #135
Grendel said:
So you don't actually know then.

Fucking hell.
Click to expand...

yes I know they were nothing like £300 each. I don't know the exact cost and never for a second suggested I did.

I don't understand you guys at all, am I really giving you too much credit when I assume you don't believe the nonsense you are spouting? I give up it's like trying to have a reasonable debate with a toddler.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #136
Nick said:
Of course..... Although bringing child services into it is a bit harsh isn't it? Especially with cccs record.

(Of course I don't, I think child services should be one of the things at the top of the list)
Click to expand...

So what you're saying then is that it does matter what these people who are being paid anyway are being paid to do. I'm glad I could help you see sense. You're welcome.

I would hope that dealing with SISU would be at the bottom of any sensible persons list of what local authority employees should do next.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #137
Grendel said:
If you seriously think that anyone involved in child support services will be involved in preparing legal background work to defend against a judicial review you are stupid.
Click to expand...

Not as stupid as someone who would assume that's what I said from what I actually said. Like I said, you started it.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #138
skybluetony176 said:
So what you're saying then is that it does matter what these people who are being paid anyway are being paid to do. I'm glad I could help you see sense. You're welcome.

I would hope that dealing with SISU would be at the bottom of any sensible persons list of what local authority employees should do next.
Click to expand...
When I said they are being paid anyway I was referring to a post earlier on on the thread
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #139
Noggin said:
yes I know they were nothing like £300 each. I don't know the exact cost and never for a second suggested I did.

I don't understand you guys at all, am I really giving you too much credit when I assume you don't believe the nonsense you are spouting? I give up it's like trying to have a reasonable debate with a toddler.
Click to expand...

I think they would be under average also. I don't know how much they are which is why I had a look.

Why is it like debating with a toddler? I looked into it, found averages and like I said I expect them to be under the average. I don't expect them to be just done by the admin girland sent out, there will be checking to do, researching to do, asking to do you get the answer... Not just the price of a stamp is it? Won't they need to be signed off before going out too?

Like I said I don't know exactly how they work but you obviously do, like you knew about the rental deal going back up yesterday when you were correcting people incorrectly then?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Dec 30, 2014
  • #140
AnOther thought, let's say Nuneaton and bedworth said yes they had spoken to them...

Would they then receive the usual protests and letters to tell them not to deal with the sisu?
 
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