My thoughts on things (New Member) (1 Viewer)

:wave::welcome: To SBT.

Excellent points STP particularly #2 which is, on reflection, glaringly obvious - who really would authorise pumping out continual major losses every month and at the same time resisting full purchase of the business ("co-investors only need apply") - it doesn't make sense.

PUSB

SlowerThanPlatt said:

Hey guys, new member. I'd just like to say a few things:

#1 - If we sack Thorn, then it will be really unfair on him. It's like handing over a business to someone, telling them they've got no money to spend and asked to keep their buisness afloat. The new owner of the buisness will be like "Wait a minute? How am I suppose to do this? I need money to strengthen things". It's going to be the same for any manager who comes to City, they need money to sign the players they want, with SISU currently owning us this will not happen and we have to rely on loan signings.

#2 - We won't get bought yet. Keys and Hoffman are quite clearly waiting out until we get relegated, so they can get the club for cheaper and have a fresh start. I hate SISU. They've ruined the club which I once felt proud of, I don't anymore. I don't feel the passion. I will do anything in my power to get the twats out, but it seems they are here for the long run and won't be leaving anytime soon. If SISU are making these massive losses every month, howcome they do not want to sell the club? If I was the owner, I'd be looking to sell it right now.

#3 Our squad is not good enough. We have 2 good players, maybe 3. Juke, Cranie, Gardner. If we sell them (obviously we cannot sell Gardner, as he is on loan) then we are well and truly fucked. If Juke goes, we are left with Platt, Cody, ROD and few of the youngsters. That's not a League 1 attack, that's a League 2 attack. :facepalm:

Anyway, can't wait for the P'boro game, got my tickets. Hope to see a City win! Anyone else going?

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first of all welcome from me i completely see what you r saying and its a fair overview but i do somewhat feel that i must add about andy thorn that the main thing that is not fair on him is that he has to manage our club, the guy is a scout and thats all its hardly fair that he has had these things pushed on him and he is well out of his depth.
but i still respect the guy for having the balls to stand up to the plate and attempt what he has.

Whatever the working conditions enforced on Thorn, it really can't be ignored that we've surrendered points from winning positions on a number of occasions. If the players he has can lead games, they should surely be able to win more than two of them also. I don't feel he can close a game down or change from his singular footballing philosophy, which would make sense as he's really only a football manager due to circumstance.

SlowerThanPlatt said:

Hey guys, new member. I'd just like to say a few things:

#1 - If we sack Thorn, then it will be really unfair on him. It's like handing over a business to someone, telling them they've got no money to spend and asked to keep their buisness afloat. The new owner of the buisness will be like "Wait a minute? How am I suppose to do this? I need money to strengthen things". It's going to be the same for any manager who comes to City, they need money to sign the players they want, with SISU currently owning us this will not happen and we have to rely on loan signings.

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Welcome.

However, once again this point is flawed. I just do not understand people's logic when they repeat this.

YES, Thorn has a POOR SQUAD. However, Thorn's tactics are amateur at best, he does not utilise our limited squad with the correct tactics and persists in playing the same formation, the same tippy-tappy ineffective, un-attacking style which DOES NOT SUIT OUR PLAYERS.

This issue is nothing to do with the players at his disposal, it is to do with the fact that Thorn does not deploy the correct tactics and is unable to make the correct changes/subs at the required times.

This is basic management and again, is HIS MISTAKE and not that of the squad.

How and why people fail to see this iI do not know.

Knowledge said:

Welcome.

However, once again this point is flawed. I just do not understand people's logic when they repeat this.

YES, Thorn has a POOR SQUAD. However, Thorn's tactics are amateur at best, he does not utilise our limited squad with the correct tactics and persists in playing the same formation, the same tippy-tappy ineffective, un-attacking style which DOES NOT SUIT OUR PLAYERS.

This issue is nothing to do with the players at his disposal, it is to do with the fact that Thorn does not deploy the correct tactics and is unable to make the correct changes/subs at the required times.

This is basic management and again, is HIS MISTAKE and not that of the squad.

How and why people fail to see this iI do not know.

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i fully agree with this. the guy is not a manager he is a scout. his job is to watch players at other clubs and see who is worth purchasing which is complete contrast to what he is doing at cov where he is having to be manager for the first time ever and sisu dnt give him any money so he wouldnt be able to sign players he scouts out anyway lol.

Knowledge,

Pet subject of mine:

Centre Mids do not score (any goals)
Centre Mids do not create/attack defences (pitter patter sideways/backwards)
Strikers wandering up and down flanks (not around pen area)
Attacks too slow and cumbersome (if at all)
No speculative shots (except against us - frequently)
Players played out of position (free scoring mid, Gardner, playing defensive role)
Stubbornness to change tactics when clearly not working (diamonds are NOT forever)

We manage to make the worse from what we have got which must demoralise the players when selected out of position and playing in formation that stifles attacking football.

I find it unbelievable that Chelsea's Ancellotti gets sacked in the season following winning "The Double" and our Andy is still here churning out loss after loss with a win ration of just 9% !!!

PUSB

Knowledge said:

Welcome.

However, once again this point is flawed. I just do not understand people's logic when they repeat this.

YES, Thorn has a POOR SQUAD. However, Thorn's tactics are amateur at best, he does not utilise our limited squad with the correct tactics and persists in playing the same formation, the same tippy-tappy ineffective, un-attacking style which DOES NOT SUIT OUR PLAYERS.

This issue is nothing to do with the players at his disposal, it is to do with the fact that Thorn does not deploy the correct tactics and is unable to make the correct changes/subs at the required times.

This is basic management and again, is HIS MISTAKE and not that of the squad.

How and why people fail to see this iI do not know.

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why do people seem to think tactics will save us against a superior force?

you're asking guys with a machine gun and a handful of bullets to destroy a tank. it aint gonna happen sunshine, not with all the tactics in the world. not even a lucky shot which mircaculously defies the laws of physics and somehow kills the gunner won't do it.

Of course the tactical side of games are important, seeing how our opponents have continually changed theirs to turn our leads into their points.

Lloyd said:

why do people seem to think tactics will save us against a superior force?

you're asking guys with a machine gun and a handful of bullets to destroy a tank. it aint gonna happen sunshine, not with all the tactics in the world. not even a lucky shot which mircaculously defies the laws of physics and somehow kills the gunner won't do it.

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Of course tactics will help, how many times have other managers figured us out, changed their tactics and beaten us because of it?

How many managers have spotted weaknesses and exploited them? Take a look at Puyet how he said pressure our back 4 as they like to play it about and will slip up....which they did..

Tactics should be even more important when you are the underdog...

Why do people feel sorry for Thorn? He wasn't forced to take the job, he is still getting paid a fair whack for doing the job...

I thought his analogy in the CT today was spot on. He and the team are trying to swim the channel with a gas stove tied to their backs.

And the suntanned cnut on his shoulder with a megaphone

Nick said:

Of course tactics will help, how many times have other managers figured us out, changed their tactics and beaten us because of it?

How many managers have spotted weaknesses and exploited them? Take a look at Puyet how he said pressure our back 4 as they like to play it about and will slip up....which they did..

Tactics should be even more important when you are the underdog...

Why do people feel sorry for Thorn? He wasn't forced to take the job, he is still getting paid a fair whack for doing the job...

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not once have i ever said tactics wont help. I said they wont save us currently. you clearly misunderstood my analogy. we don't have enough depth to be tactically adept.

you need to keep things fresh with players, give some a break, definately make sure youngsters arent playing every week and getting demoralised constantly. He can't do that, that then causes them to be under more pressure and prone to making more mistakes, individual errors crop up and then BAM, you're 1-0 down.

I have at no point said thorn is blameless, but he is getting more criticism than what he deserves from people.

AT is doing the same things he has always done, he sticks to the diamond hell or high water- he doesnt seem to have flexibility in strategy that he either believes in or can make work. He might be getting more stick than he deserves now but end of last season he probably got more praise than he deserved. He has lost the players that made it work ok (it was only 14 points out of 30 some of which were fortunate) but still he persists with a system that doesnt have the players to make it work.

The biggest weakness in the team is not the depth of squad or the tactics but the lack of passion/desire in the players. Yes they try but do they try hard enough. How many times this season have we come away from the Ricoh knowing a good proportion of the team went through the motions? How many times have we been beaten by a team quicker to the ball, stronger in the tackle, sharper in thought and movement - that isnt about tactics or depth, its about 11 vs 11 and our 11 often disappoint as a unit

Lloyd said:

not once have i ever said tactics wont help. I said they wont save us currently. you clearly misunderstood my analogy. we don't have enough depth to be tactically adept.

you need to keep things fresh with players, give some a break, definately make sure youngsters arent playing every week and getting demoralised constantly. He can't do that, that then causes them to be under more pressure and prone to making more mistakes, individual errors crop up and then BAM, you're 1-0 down.

I have at no point said thorn is blameless, but he is getting more criticism than what he deserves from people.

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Thorn took on a job he has no knowledge or experience in, and he's failing. No slight on him, but we need to change him for someone who knows what he's doing.

Nick said:

Of course tactics will help, how many times have other managers figured us out, changed their tactics and beaten us because of it?

How many managers have spotted weaknesses and exploited them? Take a look at Puyet how he said pressure our back 4 as they like to play it about and will slip up....which they did..

Tactics should be even more important when you are the underdog...

Why do people feel sorry for Thorn? He wasn't forced to take the job, he is still getting paid a fair whack for doing the job...

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Yeah, we should just bring a player like Carlton Cole or a winger off the bench and change our shape..oh, wait, we've only got 2 strikers worth picking, and not a single natural wide-man in the squad! :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

oldskyblue58 said:

AT is doing the same things he has always done, he sticks to the diamond hell or high water- he doesnt seem to have flexibility in strategy that he either believes in or can make work. He might be getting more stick than he deserves now but end of last season he probably got more praise than he deserved. He has lost the players that made it work ok (it was only 14 points out of 30 some of which were fortunate) but still he persists with a system that doesnt have the players to make it work.

The biggest weakness in the team is not the depth of squad or the tactics but the lack of passion/desire in the players. Yes they try but do they try hard enough. How many times this season have we come away from the Ricoh knowing a good proportion of the team went through the motions? How many times have we been beaten by a team quicker to the ball, stronger in the tackle, sharper in thought and movement - that isnt about tactics or depth, its about 11 vs 11 and our 11 often disappoint as a unit

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If he was getting more praise than he deserved last season, I'd say he's getting more stick that he doesn't now than he got undeserved praise then (if that makes sense).

I'm pretty amazed that nobody understands the concept of morale; when things continually go bad, heads drop. When you fail repeatedly, you forget how to succeed: if winning is a habit, it's an easier one to break than losing is. All of this is without bearing in mind the off-the-pitch situation. I'm not saying its an excuse, but it is an inescapable reality that all the non-footballing issues are having a huge impact on performance and morale. Think about how we feel-to some extent, the players are going through the same thing. There can be very little doubt that the manager and players are working for owners they despise. They all know they'll never get a pay rise, and that if any of them can be got rid of for 40 pieces of silver, they'll be out the door. The behaviour of Ken will be the final straw.


What is logical is that fans will blame the manager-that happens whenever a side is bottom of the table.

Oh, and "the biggest weakness isn't the depth of the squad"-I strongly disagree, although it's the quality as well as the depth. I can only assume that the red mist is clouding a usually sound judgement: do you honestly think having one single left-back at the club is enough? Or that Connor, Gael, and Cyrus don't need a rest, they can keep on trucking and all will be fine? That maybe Clingans deterioration in form may have been exacerbated by having to play through 4-5 games this season when he was only 75% fit-but he had to play as there was NO ONE ELSE? That having just 3 strikers available for selection-only one of which is Championship class-is adequate strength in depth?

If you read Richard Keoghs piece in the Telegraph today he states the players are totally with Thorne.the backroom @ CCFC is equivilent to a pub team ,the players fitness is continually in question,the continual lies from up above that there will be ,have been resources given are a complete fabrication,there is no mnagement structure with football experience throughout the club ,again i say what would be the effect within the businness you work for on the workforce which has been reduced by 33%.Just ask yourself ?

Read that daily mail article and focus on Micky Adams sentiments ,without doubt the biggest impact on our failure.

wingy said:

If you read Richard Keoghs piece in the Telegraph today he states the players are totally with Thorne.the backroom @ CCFC is equivilent to a pub team ,the players fitness is continually in question,the continual lies from up above that there will be ,have been resources given are a complete fabrication,there is no mnagement structure with football experience throughout the club ,again i say what would be the effect within the businness you work for on the workforce which has been reduced by 33%.Just ask yourself ?

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Exactly, Wingy. But a more cerebral consideration of the depth of our malaise takes time, effort and thought. It's a lot easier to just try and blame the most visible public figure for everything, and go "Ugh...SACK THE MANAGER!"

But at what point do you actually look at the manager's role in proceedings and attribute him some responsibility for our predicament? It's his team selection and organisation that's seen us take leads, but it also his that have lost the leads.

ajsccfc said:

But at what point do you actually look at the manager's role in proceedings and attribute him some responsibility for our predicament? It's his team selection and organisation that's seen us take leads, but it also his that have lost the leads.

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I dunno, at what point do you replace a man trying to reach Mars on a bicycle with a new cyclist?

I'm not sure either, but you definitely have to have a limit somewhere.

I suppose we could get rockets for our bicycle? We'd at least get closer then...kinda..

ajsccfc said:

But at what point do you actually look at the manager's role in proceedings and attribute him some responsibility for our predicament? It's his team selection and organisation that's seen us take leads, but it also his that have lost the leads.

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Apart from a couple of dodgy games by Murphy ,one at palace ,portsmouth obviously ,virtually all other goals /losses are down to poor individual errors ,

I commend the people who are supporting AT with respect but there has to come a time when a change is needed?
We all want sisu out and most applaud the efforts that are being made to get them out, and this will be hard as everyone is surely aware, but how much longer can we go on before it is to late in all honesty?

Must admit I've become fed up with Thorn over the last few weeks...too stubborn in sticking with the diamond...tactically naive at times with not playing players in their strongest positions and using subs too late...Yes he's got both hands tied behind his back but these are mistakes even we can spot-definitely wanted a change' however The Mail article has just reminded me though that history has taught us that changing the manager every season is a big part of the reason why we are where we are.

wingy said:

Read that daily mail article and focus on Micky Adams sentiments ,without doubt the biggest impact on our failure.

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Speak to Adams and he will speak out in defence of a succession of bosses. But he too, has his tale to tell. Bear in mind that Adams had just orchestrated the highest league finish since 1989, albeit in the Championship (eighth).

'I didn't think we were far off. Only what happens? We lose Gary McSheffrey and James Scowcroft, two of our most influential players. Dennis Wise is allowed to leave for Leeds,' he said.

'Results? Well, they start dropping off in the following season and everyone is looking at the manager.

But don't look at me. Look at the rest of the bosses who followed.

'Are we all bad? I would suggest some are better than others but the law of averages says you should pick one or two good ones. How many is it in 25 years? Fourteen? Fifteen?


'The problem with Coventry City is when the fans start calling for the managers' head, the board cave in.


'What does that do? It takes the emphasis off them. All the best clubs stand by their managers when it gets sticky. Coventry City don't.

'What's the answer when the supporters moan? Fire the manager, bring in a new one. The board stays put. It's just been repeated. Time and again.

'Also the Ricoh Arena is a millstone around the club's neck. Until they get that sorted out, they aren't going anywhere.


'Fantastic city, great supporters who deserve better. After playing for and managing the club it broke my heart that I couldn't give them the success they crave. It really did.

'I phoned Aidy Boothroyd when he got the job, marked his card on a couple of issues and said: "If you get it right, you'll go down in history. They have had nothing to shout about."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...der-The-fall-Coventry-City.html#ixzz1gjJqorX3

But they are managers and no disrespect to Thorn but he is a scout who maybe should have just done what he did last year and said to sisu no thank you history tells me you will not back me to do the job you want me to do, hindsight I know.

ICHAN said:

I commend the people who are supporting AT with respect but there has to come a time when a change is needed?
We all want sisu out and most applaud the efforts that are being made to get them out, and this will be hard as everyone is surely aware, but how much longer can we go on before it is to late in all honesty?

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My view was that it was too late in July. It's certainly too late now. By that logic, it won't keep us up-if you want to sack Thorn so that we stay in The Championship this season, well, getting what you want won't get you what you want, so to speak.

if we accept we are going down at what point do we start building for next season NLHWC? and is AT the man to do it ? Without new investors or owners the finances are not going to be a great deal better is he the man to inspire the team in division 1?. Given that clingan and Juke will be gone by end of season do you see us being a force under AT or any other manager in League 1?

My own opinion at the end of a tough week is that..... we should build as best we can as soon as we can(focus on the youngsters), I dont think AT is the man to inspire the team I think he has been battered and damaged by the last few months plus didnt have the managerial knowledge in the first place, and I dont see us as anything more than also rans in League 1. I like that AT wants to play "football" but I do not like that it is so sterile, laboured, and ineffective I dont see that changing in League 1 with AT

I want SISU out - not because they have mis managed the books, I doubt they have, but because they lack ambition, passion and care not for our club. They do not have a plan to make it work (they have a plan to reduce the losses but not one to bring success to the product), they dont understand how it needs a modest investment to service their investment and bring more income than the additional cost. They cut finances to the bone, make do with second best (and that includes AT in my opinion) simply because it will make the year end figures look better. As an accountant I understand the what just dont understand the why they do only that - business is much more than that. Trouble is I wouldnt bet on SISU going any time soon even despite the protests etc

Above all I want them out because after a succession of shysters and dodgy characters they have made me feel bad about the club I love. My passion. for the club is presently buried by crap that surrounds the club. I dont see the way out of this - I dont believe in the GH bid which is essentially more of the same that got us to SISU in the first place. Its going to take something more radical to convince me we are heading the right way again, am not holding my breath

I guess because my own passion is being extinguished I look for passion in the team to reignite it - i do not see any. Yes I over emphasised it , depth and quality are vital but so too is playing for the shirt. Our players are risk averse, decently paid under achievers - I am certain they are affected by the off field stuff but they can affect things on the pitch and in my opinion too many come up short on that front. It cant be easy for them but they are not the only ones having tough times - bet they are better paid though

At a time when I should be showing unity with my fellow fans this continuing Andy fuckin Thorn fuckin hard luck story, gawd bless him, fuckin martyrdom is getting right on my tits. Yes I'd like to think my posts are usually constructive but this is an exception. "He's fighting a losing battle, he's only a scout, he's got one hand behind his back, insert fuckin crap if you tried to run a factory with no machines analogy here" yes we get it, he can't do anything about it so fuck off and let someone else have a crack.

wingy said:

Apart from a couple of dodgy games by Murphy ,one at palace ,portsmouth obviously ,virtually all other goals /losses are down to poor individual errors ,

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That's of course far too many goals conceded and games lost to be explained away by freak occurrences, which suggests errors are a result of our inability to deal with opposition. If this is such a continuous theme that we seemingly have no idea how to change, the question must be asked of the coaching staff.