MP asks for CCFC intervention (1 Viewer)

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 22, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
The FL are always going to come down on the side of the "integrity" of their competition. It would therefore be expected that they would back the club against most other third parties and most circumstances.

Indeed.

Now if I were CCFC, my whole argument would be that I'd mirrored Brighton - that I'd moved away temporarily, returned... and now wanted to adapt a stadium temporarily for my needs (cf. The Butts and Withdean). On that being disallowed, I'd present that information to the football league... and then bog off wherever.

Or to oblivion.

(Is always wise to see other perspectives, however unaplitable, as it then allows focus on how to prevent them. In my mind... this is where we're heading as it stands, and sitting around saying the Football League won't allow us to bog off won't stop us bogging off)

rupert_bear · Aug 22, 2016

OffenhamSkyBlue said:
Sorry if I have missed previous discussions, or if this is too far off-topic for this particular thread, but the new Jag-promoted enterprise park development on the south side of the A45 near the airport will have space for a nice little stadium. It's in Warwick District, so CCC can fuck off, and when Tollbar is finished, it will have great transport links (at least by car/coach).

Maybe, but there was almost a melt down in that area a few years ago when there was a proposal to build an air terminal in the area so a football stadium might be difficult to get go ahead

italiahorse · Aug 22, 2016

Grendel said:
Probably some car park operator lurking in the new town who will bend over on their forum and justify it as well.

Or the local village idiot signing up to this board to justify the unjustifiable?

Nick · Aug 22, 2016

rupert_bear said:
But do the legals concern the sale of the Ricoh to Wasps so by association possibly concerns them.

They knew about that when they started negotiations though?

It is almost like a switch was flicked at the Ricoh and the Higgs...

Nick · Aug 22, 2016

italiahorse said:
Or the local village idiot signing up to this board to justify the unjustifiable?

What like moving sports teams for good 90 miles because there are more potential fans there and then pretending they had to else the club would die?

I agree!

rupert_bear · Aug 22, 2016

But weren't
ccfc at Northampton when negotiations with Wasps began and Tim Fisher when asked at the time about a Ricoh return constantly saying "we have moved on"
Been through all ifs and maybes for months. This is now a different ball game raking up the past will achieve nothing pressure needs to be put on all parties which is why I welcome the MPs involvement.

Bruce the Boot · Aug 22, 2016

rupert_bear said:
But wasn't
ccfc at Northampton when negotiations with Wasps began and Tim Fisher when asked at the time about a Ricoh return constantly saying "we have moved on"
Been through all ifs and maybes for months. This is now a different ball game raking up the past will achieve nothing pressure needs to be put on all parties which is why I welcome the MPs involvement.

TM and Sisu have said on many occasions we're doing this and we are doing that , then bleat when everybody takes them at face value and cracks on with out them , Its time the sisu apologists smelt the coffee and Sisu stop bull shitting and delivered something credible .

italiahorse · Aug 22, 2016

Nick said:
What like moving sports teams for good 90 miles because there are more potential fans there and then pretending they had to else the club would die?

I agree!

You ignore the facts on this. Wasps were minutes away from being liquidated only a few years ago and were renting an out of London stadium. We can argue on whether there were other timely locations but you have yet to come up with a good argument.

The new location may have 2 village idiots by the sound of it.

oldskyblue58 · Aug 22, 2016

Nick said:
Aren't Wasps refusing to talk though? The council will help but only if the club pays up....

Yes Nick, but that doesn't mean that situation wont change or that things are not done informally behind the scenes (wouldn't be the first time that has happened).

Ian1779 · Aug 22, 2016

italiahorse said:
You ignore the facts on this. Wasps were minutes away from being liquidated only a few years ago and were renting an out of London stadium. We can argue on whether there were other timely locations but you have yet to come up with a good argument.

The new location may have 2 village idiots by the sound of it.

There is only 1 argument - moving a sporting club away from its home is wrong. It was wrong for CCFC and it's wrong for Wasps.

The only village idiot around here is you.

oldskyblue58 · Aug 22, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Indeed.

Now if I were CCFC, my whole argument would be that I'd mirrored Brighton - that I'd moved away temporarily, returned... and now wanted to adapt a stadium temporarily for my needs (cf. The Butts and Withdean). On that being disallowed, I'd present that information to the football league... and then bog off wherever.

Or to oblivion.

(Is always wise to see other perspectives, however unaplitable, as it then allows focus on how to prevent them. In my mind... this is where we're heading as it stands, and sitting around saying the Football League won't allow us to bog off won't stop us bogging off)

Have to say for whatever justification is given or actions assumed that I think the club is on a course to move from the City....... in current (most ) circumstances I think the FL will back its member club should it ship out of Coventry

rupert_bear · Aug 22, 2016

[

Bruce the Boot said:
TM and Sisu have said on many occasions we're doing this and we are doing that , then bleat when everybody takes them at face value and cracks on with out them , Its time the sisu apologists smelt the coffee and Sisu stop bull shitting and delivered something credible .

Have to agree and the current on going acadamy issue looks like this Ricoh situation could follow a similar path. I worry about this Chris Anderson bloke, came in as a Waggott replacement I think
he thought and possibly promised he could deliver his bosses wishes but appears seriously out of his depth.

albatross · Aug 22, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Have to say for whatever justification is given or actions assumed that I think the club is on a course to move from the City....... in current (most ) circumstances I think the FL will back its member club should it ship out of Coventry

When they moved to Northampton didn't the club have to post a £1m Bond with the FA to ensure that they returned to the city, having assured everyone that they had a plan? I am not so sure that the FA would sanction this a second time give the empty promises regarding the stadium developments plus would make the FA look even more incompetent .

italiahorse · Aug 22, 2016

Ian1779 said:
There is only 1 argument - moving a sporting club away from its home is wrong. It was wrong for CCFC and it's wrong for Wasps.

The only village idiot around here is you.

So Wycombe Wanderers stadium was London Wasps home ?

rupert_bear · Aug 22, 2016

Ian1779 said:
There is only 1 argument - moving a sporting club away from its home is wrong. It was wrong for CCFC and it's wrong for Wasps.

The only village idiot around here is you.

Your word moving suggests Wasps were moved by someone other than themselves maybe against their will, they weren't it was their decision to up sticks from Wycombe, (note not London) that really is an issue between their fan base and themselves.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 22, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Have to say for whatever justification is given or actions assumed that I think the club is on a course to move from the City....... in current (most ) circumstances I think the FL will back its member club should it ship out of Coventry

Yup. To do otherwise could (from their POV) result in a rather savage domino effect.

JulianDarbyFTW · Aug 22, 2016

It seems to me that we have a boardroom of people who are out of their depth, but don't have the character to admit it. Anderson appears to be behind the game at all turns and Fisher is just bluff and bluster. I don't believe anything positive will happen while those two are on board. We have lots of talk and protest about SISU, but maybe something as simple as a change of stewardship would see a change in direction or tactic. I think it's easy to forget that they have a lot to lose in all this too.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 22, 2016

JulianDarbyFTW said:
It seems to me that we have a boardroom of people who are out of their depth, but don't have the character to admit it. Anderson appears to be behind the game at all turns and Fisher is just bluff and bluster. I don't believe anything positive will happen while those two are on board. We have lots of talk and protest about SISU, but maybe something as simple as a change of stewardship would see a change in direction or tactic. I think it's easy to forget that they have a lot to lose in all this too.

How many board members do they have to go through before we accept the constant is the ultimate owners... who also need to take responsibility for who they appoint, too.

oldskyblue58 · Aug 22, 2016

albatross said:
When they moved to Northampton didn't the club have to post a £1m Bond with the FA to ensure that they returned to the city, having assured everyone that they had a plan? I am not so sure that the FA would sanction this a second time give the empty promises regarding the stadium developments plus would make the FA look even more incompetent .

Hard to make them look more incompetent really or the FL imo.

Going to depend on the story that can be constructed.
- number of sites already considered, with FL involvement but nothing suitable
- CCC blocking proposed partnership at new site in city
- new site in City looked favourably on by FL
- Current landlord not willing to engage in talks
- CCC policy favouring Rugby and swimming
- CCC not dealing with club because of legal matters going on that are not the clubs
- unable to negotiate longer Academy deal
- Incomes being restricted despite high L1 average crowd numbers
- improvements have been made to being self sufficient so being responsible financially
- perceived conspiracy against the club
- club future at risk and only solution
- funding available to do it
- no site in Coventry or close to available
- alternative site or groundshare available for immediate use
- etc etc

the FA / FL alternative could be to effectively jeopardise a member club by trying to impose a deal the club/owners do not want. That has a lot of potential repercussions for other members in many more ways than "franchise"

Warwickhunt · Aug 22, 2016

italiahorse said:
You ignore the facts on this. Wasps were minutes away from being liquidated only a few years ago and were renting an out of London stadium. We can argue on whether there were other timely locations but you have yet to come up with a good argument.

The new location may have 2 village idiots by the sound of it.

I dont blame them at all if the WASP club is close too liquidation and some council offers you a stadium thats worth £40 million+ for a very reduced price of £20 million I would snap their hands off

Bruce the Boot · Aug 22, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
How many board members do they have to go through before we accept the constant is the ultimate owners... who also need to take responsibility for who they appoint, too.

I think the likes of Waggot , Tim Anderson , come in with the best intentions without FULL background knowledge to what has gone on . Ultimately the strings are still pulled from Mayfair , these board members are just puppets . Anderson wil be off as soon as he realises he is floggin a dead horse !

italiahorse · Aug 22, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
How many board members do they have to go through before we accept the constant is the ultimate owners... who also need to take responsibility for who they appoint, too.

Let's start with getting rid of Fisher first and dropping the court cases on behalf of CCFC . Then watch things move on quickly.

Brylowes · Aug 22, 2016

Non of us really know if the EFL & FA would sanction another relocation out of the city
But it's highly likely SISU have had talks and already know how any requests will be
Dealt with. Therefore their attitude towards others and the actions they take over the
Next 2-3 months will tell us everything we need to know IMHO
My personal view is that like last time they will allow the club to do as they please, I also
Think the move away would be a pre-runner to the club ceasing to exist in it's current
Guise.

Nick · Aug 22, 2016

Warwickhunt said:
I dont blame them at all if the WASP club is close too liquidation and some council offers you a stadium thats worth £40 million+ for a very reduced price of £20 million I would snap their hands off

You mean less than £7 million.

oldskyblue58 · Aug 22, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Yup. To do otherwise could (from their POV) result in a rather savage domino effect.

then of course there is the fall back position of legal action ..........

Nick · Aug 22, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Hard to make them look more incompetent really or the FL imo.

Going to depend on the story that can be constructed.
- number of sites already considered, with FL involvement but nothing suitable
- CCC blocking proposed partnership at new site in city
- new site in City looked favourably on by FL
- Current landlord not willing to engage in talks
- CCC policy favouring Rugby and swimming
- unable to negotiate longer Academy deal
- Incomes being restricted despite high L1 average crowd numbers
- improvements have been made to being self sufficient so being responsible financially
- perceived conspiracy against the club
- club future at risk and only solution
- funding available to do it
- no site in Coventry or close to available
- alternative site or groundshare available for immediate use
- etc etc

the FA / FL alternative could be to effectively jeopardise a member club by trying to impose a deal the club/owners do not want. That has a lot of potential repercussions for other members in many more ways than "franchise"

That's the thing, they will be piling every shred of evidence up. Things like the council trying to block the butts that they had been working closely with the FL about.

Everything will be noted. There is no way the football league can force them to stay at the Ricoh as it means Wasps can then say (not saying they would) that they want 100 million a year or something, the FL can't tell Wasps what rent to charge.

Brylowes · Aug 22, 2016

JulianDarbyFTW said:
It seems to me that we have a boardroom of people who are out of their depth, but don't have the character to admit it. Anderson appears to be behind the game at all turns and Fisher is just bluff and bluster. I don't believe anything positive will happen while those two are on board. We have lots of talk and protest about SISU, but maybe something as simple as a change of stewardship would see a change in direction or tactic. I think it's easy to forget that they have a lot to lose in all this too.

But those two only have the authority to do as they're told.

Rodders1 · Aug 22, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Correct another move out of the city, will be a huge boost for "the city of Rugby" rubbish.

Why don't we move to the City of Rugby (ok it's a town I know!)

chiefdave · Aug 22, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
If the deal were something like that would the FL sanction a move elsewhere that could seriously reduce incomes/profitability at least in the short/medium term.

I can't imagine the FL ever saying to us, or any other club, you must accept this deal with a third party.

chiefdave · Aug 22, 2016

rupert_bear said:
At the moment the position is clear, drop the legals, we talk. The ball is in the sisu court.

That's the problem, why are Wasps saying SISU dropping legal action against CCC is a requirement for talks to take place over a deal between CCFC and Wasps?
And why did they start negotiations and then suddenly stop?

chiefdave · Aug 22, 2016

OffenhamSkyBlue said:
Sorry if I have missed previous discussions, or if this is too far off-topic for this particular thread, but the new Jag-promoted enterprise park development on the south side of the A45 near the airport will have space for a nice little stadium. It's in Warwick District, so CCC can fuck off, and when Tollbar is finished, it will have great transport links (at least by car/coach).

Its still CCC until you get past the airport.

You would have thought somebody, maybe someone doing some sort of Coventry Gateway project, would have thought about that. Can't possibly imagine the council would have applied pressure for it not to be in the submitted plans

stupot07 · Aug 22, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Hard to make them look more incompetent really or the FL imo.

Going to depend on the story that can be constructed.
- number of sites already considered, with FL involvement but nothing suitable
- CCC blocking proposed partnership at new site in city
- new site in City looked favourably on by FL
- Current landlord not willing to engage in talks
- CCC policy favouring Rugby and swimming
- CCC not dealing with club because of legal matters going on that are not the clubs
- unable to negotiate longer Academy deal
- Incomes being restricted despite high L1 average crowd numbers
- improvements have been made to being self sufficient so being responsible financially
- perceived conspiracy against the club
- club future at risk and only solution
- funding available to do it
- no site in Coventry or close to available
- alternative site or groundshare available for immediate use
- etc etc

the FA / FL alternative could be to effectively jeopardise a member club by trying to impose a deal the club/owners do not want. That has a lot of potential repercussions for other members in many more ways than "franchise"

Really shows how much we are again between a rock and a hard place. Sisu continue to be a bunch of incompetent lying b******ds, whilst wasps, the council, and others are seemingly making it impossible to stay in Coventry. We're (the fans) again stuck in the middle being shat on from all angles.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 22, 2016

Bruce the Boot said:
I think the likes of Waggot , Tim Anderson , come in with the best intentions without FULL background knowledge to what has gone on . Ultimately the strings are still pulled from Mayfair , these board members are just puppets . Anderson wil be off as soon as he realises he is floggin a dead horse !

I agree. Ultimately the responsibility lies with the owner.

FWIW Fisher(!) seems fairly competent when he doesn't have to dance to the overarching tune as well... IMHO.

Pointless going after the visible figureheads though. That's what we did when Richardson went... didn't alter the fact the main shareholder was still there, to continue Richardson's good work(!)

rupert_bear · Aug 22, 2016

I think we are approaching the watershed moment, if I have read the rules correct football clubs have to have 10 year solid plans on where they play, we haven't, with planned alterations to the FL that could be a curved ball. Apart from putting pressure on our owners to talk and deal over the Ricoh we need to find out the what if issue, if we have no home, what and when do the FL do about it and where does that leave Coventry City Football Club long term.

oldskyblue58 · Aug 22, 2016

chiefdave said:
I can't imagine the FL ever saying to us, or any other club, you must accept this deal with a third party.

neither can I CD but the scenario I described would make it seem a CCFC/SISU decision to go and turn down an acceptable deal on the surface of it .......... even if some would always see it as that in any case........ The FA/FL may accept that but the CCFC fans might see it differently which could have serious implications

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