Moving forward (1 Viewer)

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 17, 2014

Moving on from something Michael said earlier.

Anyway, forgetting who's in charge, who's top blame. What type of club do *you* want?

Personally I'd like a mix of a few things. Ironically I'd like a club structure similar to that we had under Richardson, Robinson and McGinnity:facepalm: echoing Arsenal's old model, where you have a number of businessmen with shares, but none can have more than 25% of the holding. Meanwhile, 25% of shares are allocated to small shareholders who can own no more than about 3-4% maximum.

I'd also want nobody, but nobody who had been in the boardroom before to hold any influence whatsoever, I'd want a fresh start.

Doesn't guarantee success, that route, and as we saw with the unholy trinity it can still fail... but I don't believe a fan-owned model works, so I'd rather have a 'fan influenced' model, and the opportunity for wealthier individuals wanting to boost their ego to do just that... without the entire club being dependent on one person or organisation.

More democratic that way...

Then (ironically!) I'd want a system like we're trying to set up now, where there's a ready progression to the first team for the youngsters, and they have the chance to shine early. Helps identity, that...

Don#'t want huge sums spent on transfer fees, don;t care if nothing is spent as long as money is spent for the club's sake and for the best foot forward.

Anyway, ignoring those here now and avoiding the temptation to blame(!) what would *you* like to see going forward?

Johnnythespider · Nov 17, 2014

The team ;-)

wingy · Nov 17, 2014

Johnnythespider said:
The team ;-)

The Ball!!!!

Otis · Nov 17, 2014

A game that is more interesting than watching tumbleweed blow across a desert.

SBT · Nov 17, 2014

Arguing about the philosophical pros and cons of various management structures/ideologies is pretty much meaningless at the end of the day. I don't care who owns the club or what the money goes on, as long as it's all legal, and there's a successful team playing in a well-attended, accessible stadium.

I don't mind if it's a megalomanic oil baron, a faceless hedge fund, or some Bundesliga-esque fan utopia - we've been deprived of the basic things that make football enjoyable for so long. Once we get those back, the rest will follow.

dongonzalos · Nov 17, 2014

Johnnythespider said:
The team ;-)

Brilliant

Gazolba · Nov 18, 2014

Otis said:
A game that is more interesting than watching tumbleweed blow across a desert.

Actually tumbleweed blows pretty fast.

Otis · Nov 18, 2014

Gazolba said:
Actually tumbleweed blows pretty fast.

You watched it for an hour and a half, blowing one way and then the other? Fine for 10 mins, but an hour and a half I would think you'd find that absolutely excruitiating.

Though still more interesting than most City games this season.

Philosoraptor · Nov 18, 2014

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 19, 2014

This thread sums up exactly why this club will never move forward. I may disagree with Michael on many things, including his vision for how the club moves forward... but at least he has one.

Most, on here, would rather engage in petty points scoring to be proved they speak 'the truth' or they're 'right'. it seems that's more important, as is the sure and certain knowledge that percentages of blame are what solves things.

You'd think we'd have learned when Richardson was ousted, but we left Robinson and McGinnity there (and Higgs, for that matter!).

You'd think we'd have learned by welcoming SISU.

Shouting SISU OUT! is all very well and good, but to just do that with no thought to the consequences will lead us with more shysters, and/or no club.

Just blindly shouting SISU OUT is partly why we now have no ground, no hope... no future.

To move forward, to deliver, really needs some kind of thought about what will work, what's practical, and what is wanted to be avoided at all costs. Otherwise, let's blindly re-tread over and over again the same indeterminates, all revelling in the fact that we're right and everyone else is wrong.

Pathetic.

Let's go round and round in cricles and just end up disorganised incompetents.

Cheshire Sky Blue · Nov 19, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
Moving on from something Michael said earlier.

Anyway, forgetting who's in charge, who's top blame. What type of club do *you* want?

Personally I'd like a mix of a few things. Ironically I'd like a club structure similar to that we had under Richardson, Robinson and McGinnity:facepalm: echoing Arsenal's old model, where you have a number of businessmen with shares, but none can have more than 25% of the holding. Meanwhile, 25% of shares are allocated to small shareholders who can own no more than about 3-4% maximum.

I'd also want nobody, but nobody who had been in the boardroom before to hold any influence whatsoever, I'd want a fresh start.

Doesn't guarantee success, that route, and as we saw with the unholy trinity it can still fail... but I don't believe a fan-owned model works, so I'd rather have a 'fan influenced' model, and the opportunity for wealthier individuals wanting to boost their ego to do just that... without the entire club being dependent on one person or organisation.

More democratic that way...

Then (ironically!) I'd want a system like we're trying to set up now, where there's a ready progression to the first team for the youngsters, and they have the chance to shine early. Helps identity, that...

Don#'t want huge sums spent on transfer fees, don;t care if nothing is spent as long as money is spent for the club's sake and for the best foot forward.

Anyway, ignoring those here now and avoiding the temptation to blame(!) what would *you* like to see going forward?

I can see that some did not take this seriously, but I think that the structure you suggest is in line with everything I would like to see. Hard at this time to see how it will come about. I don't agree with SBT. We have mad megalomaniacs today and that has just resulted in us being totally fucked over. I would add, I would love for us to be back in the Prem'. But only if it is achieved in a sustainable way that will not cause repeated failure and deliver SISU version 2

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 19, 2014

Cheshire Sky Blue said:
I can see that some did not take this seriously, but I think that the structure you suggest is in line with everything I would like to see. Hard at this time to see how it will come about. I don't agree with SBT. We have mad megalomaniacs today and that has just resulted in us being totally fucked over. I would add, I would love for us to be back in the Prem'. But only if it is achieved in a sustainable way that will not cause repeated failure and deliver SISU version 2

Hard indeed to see how it comes about. However, just removing the owners leaves a void. Zero voice from the fans leaves a void as, like it or not, we seem to be the only ones who will look out for us.

So, we can repeat the arguments of the past, or we can question what we actually want!

Cheshire Sky Blue · Nov 19, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
Hard indeed to see how it comes about. However, just removing the owners leaves a void. Zero voice from the fans leaves a void as, like it or not, we seem to be the only ones who will look out for us.

So, we can repeat the arguments of the past, or we can question what we actually want!

I think we know what we actually want and where we want to be, the problem is there is currently no way of finding our way to that place. I don't think we will be left with a void. SISU will need to find a buyer and that will mean a handover (Unless they are just wanting to be malicious for the sake of they can be malicious and close the business)

I think you are correct we need a fans voice, but we will all (& I mean me as well here) need to relearn how to respect each other and be a brotherhood of fans again, where we argue about shit formations and crap defence etc and not at who's the biggest idiot in the village. In my view that will come only when SISU go.

ccfcway · Nov 19, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
Let's go round and round in cricles and just end up disorganised incompetents.

I knew if I spent long enough looking for it I would find SISU's mission statement

Bill Glazier · Nov 19, 2014

I don't think you can blame the 'SISU-outers' for the club's situation - SISU carry at least 90% of the blame.

However, you're right, it's time to be positive and I had a dream last night; CCFC was playing at the Ricoh and the club was now owned by a Coventry Sporting Club, that also owned Wasps and CRFC. Each club had a stand with seats in its own colours and all the teams were mutually supportive and successful. In fact Coventry was now seen as a sporting powerhouse and outsiders were pointing at the innovative Coventry Sporting Club and saying 'this is the future', just as they did when dear old Jimmy Hill took over all those years ago.

And then I woke up.

Ian1779 · Nov 19, 2014

There is a model - it's called being totally sustainable. Money in is more than money out.

But people refuse to accept it because somewhere in the madness and actions of SISU it is the model that they are subscribing to... but not at this moment in time delivering on.

Ashdown · Nov 19, 2014

Bill Glazier said:
I don't think you can blame the 'SISU-outers' for the club's situation - SISU carry at least 90% of the blame.

However, you're right, it's time to be positive and I had a dream last night; CCFC was playing at the Ricoh and the club was now owned by a Coventry Sporting Club, that also owned Wasps and CRFC. Each club had a stand with seats in its own colours and all the teams were mutually supportive and successful. In fact Coventry was now seen as a sporting powerhouse and outsiders were pointing at the innovative Coventry Sporting Club and saying 'this is the future', just as they did when dear old Jimmy Hill took over all those years ago.

And then I woke up.

In view of the shared arrangements, it's a pity that they couldn't just do something with the lighting in line with what they do at the Alliance Arena in Munich depending on which team is playing.

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 19, 2014

Ashdown said:
In view of the shared arrangements, it's a pity that they couldn't just do something with the lighting in line with what they do at the Alliance Arena in Munich depending on which team is playing.

That does cost a fair whack though

Bill Glazier · Nov 19, 2014

Ashdown said:
In view of the shared arrangements, it's a pity that they couldn't just do something with the lighting in line with what they do at the Alliance Arena in Munich depending on which team is playing.

Yes, just had a look at the Munich Arena and it does look amazing. Some sort of arrangement where the clubs join together is the only future really. It could happen.

Ashdown · Nov 19, 2014

Thought it superb a couple of years back when a few naughty techies from Dortmund got in at night and turned the whole thing yellow !

James Smith · Nov 19, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
Moving on from something Michael said earlier.

Anyway, forgetting who's in charge, who's top blame. What type of club do *you* want?

Personally I'd like a mix of a few things. Ironically I'd like a club structure similar to that we had under Richardson, Robinson and McGinnity:facepalm: echoing Arsenal's old model, where you have a number of businessmen with shares, but none can have more than 25% of the holding. Meanwhile, 25% of shares are allocated to small shareholders who can own no more than about 3-4% maximum.

I'd also want nobody, but nobody who had been in the boardroom before to hold any influence whatsoever, I'd want a fresh start.

Doesn't guarantee success, that route, and as we saw with the unholy trinity it can still fail... but I don't believe a fan-owned model works, so I'd rather have a 'fan influenced' model, and the opportunity for wealthier individuals wanting to boost their ego to do just that... without the entire club being dependent on one person or organisation.

More democratic that way...

Then (ironically!) I'd want a system like we're trying to set up now, where there's a ready progression to the first team for the youngsters, and they have the chance to shine early. Helps identity, that...

Don#'t want huge sums spent on transfer fees, don;t care if nothing is spent as long as money is spent for the club's sake and for the best foot forward.

Anyway, ignoring those here now and avoiding the temptation to blame(!) what would *you* like to see going forward?

lamtara2006 · Nov 19, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
Hard indeed to see how it comes about. However, just removing the owners leaves a void. Zero voice from the fans leaves a void as, like it or not, we seem to be the only ones who will look out for us.

So, we can repeat the arguments of the past, or we can question what we actually want!

Portsmouth seem to have moved forward with a (so far) very successful ownership model - a combination of Wealthy Individuals who were also supporters combined with a broad-based fan ownership. They had one major advantage compared to us: in spite of all their past tribulations, they still had some assets to give some tangible worth for that group to invest in.

CCFC really has little significant monetary value as things stand, so (even assuming that Sisu were prepared to exit the scene) new owners would be starting almost from zero. Not exactly attractive for any investor big or small. Therefore, it would need people prepared to make donations for the love of the club with no expectation of return.

What would I personally like to see? A club that is on a stable footing; owners that genuinely care for the club and its supporters; directors who demonstrate financial / business intelligence and responsibility and - within that context - provide the optimal environment for success (ambition and vision does not equate to gambling recklessly with the future for short term success); players who are willing to 'play for the shirt' and consistently give their best, even if their best isn't always good enough to win; a manager who is passionate about the club and can get the best out of the squad; supporters who believe in that overall vision and don't desert the cause when the team is going through a bad patch. I would accept non-league football at whatever tier we find our level to achieve that combination, in the belief that it is the right recipe for this once-great club to re-build.

That may all be pipe-dream stuff. However, continuing as we are seems destined to ultimate failure so my pipe-dream is certainly no worse.

torchomatic · Nov 19, 2014

Agree, James. Wouldn't want anyone who'd had anything to do with the club on board in the future.

Cheshire Sky Blue · Nov 19, 2014

Bill Glazier said:
Yes, just had a look at the Munich Arena and it does look amazing. Some sort of arrangement where the clubs join together is the only future really. It could happen.

Bill, I suggested a few weeks ago that this was the likely/ potential solution. I think that a Sporting Club based in Coventry that had Football, Rugby, Speedway and maybe Ice Hockey all from the JLR arena complex. Hotels, Clubs, Casino, Leisure Clubs etc. Wow that would be something. The thing is, it is all possible. I may have been smoking the wrong stuff as a youth but all that would take is vision and desire. Can you imagine the buzz (No pun intended) around the City if that could be created?

Maybe the protesting should be about delivering this type of vision and not all the negative stuff we have as a habit today. Bring on Sporting Club Warwickshire

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 19, 2014

lamtara2006 said:
That may all be pipe-dream stuff. However, continuing as we are seems destined to ultimate failure so my pipe-dream is certainly no worse.

To a degree we have to start with the b pipe dreams and then move to the pragmatic based on broad consensus. Not everyone will be b happy with everything but... We have to start looking forward. The details can be picked apart later, and pipe dreams might be unrealistic... but at the moment we don't even know what people want!

lamtara2006 · Nov 19, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
To a degree we have to start with the b pipe dreams and then move to the pragmatic based on broad consensus. Not everyone will be b happy with everything but... We have to start looking forward. The details can be picked apart later, and pipe dreams might be unrealistic... but at the moment we don't even know what people want!

I should have added to my pipe-dream: a home to call our own.

James Smith · Nov 19, 2014

What I'd really like is for Wasps to offer us all the matchday revenue (Pie money, car parking etc.) and for us to build a working realtionship with them, rather than just fish the lawyers number out of the phone book. They shouldn't be here to begin with but now that they are we need to deal with it in a grown up way, not just resort to litigation. Obviously (and I'd be lying if I said otherwise) I'd like to be rid of Sisu but they have to have a reason to leave/sell up and I'm not sure what their reason would be at the moment. It's not like they have a great incentive to sell given our financial state. Also ìf they did go, who would be mad enough to take on our basket case (sad but true) of a club?

shmmeee · Nov 19, 2014

Honestly don't think it matters while there's clubs out there willing to pump cash in to be honest. Until that changes you're playing with one hand behind your back. You can go for sustainability, but you'll only avoid a death spiral if you are good enough at picking managers who can work with that. We're not.

The one thing that sticks for me from all this crap is that it's been made blatantly clear that it is not "our club", it's "Joy's business". Posted enough before about community initiatives, etc. but until the club is run for the benefit of the fans and not investors I couldn't care less.

martcov · Nov 19, 2014

Bill Glazier said:
Yes, just had a look at the Munich Arena and it does look amazing. Some sort of arrangement where the clubs join together is the only future really. It could happen.

Yes. I see the problem of only being a tenant of Wasps coming to the fore when their colours are everywhere - and a huge Wasp replaces the CCFC sign. Then you can see that we are the smaller club ( club with no own stadium ). Problem is that we are not committed to the Ricoh and so why would we be consulted on e.g. joint lighting as in Munich?

could still become a better situation if our owners came up with some forward thinking ideas instead of the usual we're building a stadium crap.

Bill Glazier · Nov 19, 2014

It can only happen when Sisu have gone. and if the clubs all have the same owner Mart. That's why it was just a dream.

martcov · Nov 19, 2014

Bill Glazier said:
It can only happen when Sisu have gone. and if the clubs all have the same owner Mart. That's why it was just a dream.

My dream too. We are not a big city and need to share resources ( under one holding company ) to compete with the bigger cities - as with Swansea - football and Rugby. We also need the controlling company to be committed to sporting success in addition to commercial success ( as Wasps appear to be ). A few local rich egoists ( seeking public recognition and local fame ) being involved on the sporting side would help.

Jack Griffin · Nov 19, 2014

Ian1779 said:
There is a model - it's called being totally sustainable. Money in is more than money out.

But people refuse to accept it because somewhere in the madness and actions of SISU it is the model that they are subscribing to... but not at this moment in time delivering on.

Money in = money out over any 5 year period.. the club should be run for sporting purposes, not for profit.

stupot07 · Nov 19, 2014

shmmeee said:
Honestly don't think it matters while there's clubs out there willing to pump cash in to be honest. Until that changes you're playing with one hand behind your back. You can go for sustainability, but you'll only avoid a death spiral if you are good enough at picking managers who can work with that. We're not.

The one thing that sticks for me from all this crap is that it's been made blatantly clear that it is not "our club", it's "Joy's business". Posted enough before about community initiatives, etc. but until the club is run for the benefit of the fans and not investors I couldn't care less.

Unfortunately as you've alluded to in your first paragraph, fans will only see the club is run for their benefit if owners pump in lots of money (without expecting any of it back) for wages and transfers to show 'ambition'.

Ifs depressing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

stupot07 · Nov 19, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
Money in = money out over any 5 year period.. the club should be run for sporting purposes, not for profit.

'Sporting purposes' = spending more money that you make, without expecting to ever pay it back.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

skybluefred · Nov 19, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
Money in = money out over any 5 year period.. the club should be run for sporting purposes, not for profit.

The Club would have to be owned by the fans only for that to work. The rich people of this world didn't get rich by doing things for nothing.

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