Momentum (1 Viewer)

SkyblueBazza · Oct 27, 2012

We have the past...embarrassing
We have the now...poor but improving
Bear in mind we have played at our worst & managed a paltry (considering many people's expectations) 4 points from 8 games against the current top 11...I've chosen 11 as that's where the first noticeable gap in points is - 2!..who are the current batch challenging for play-off places.
We have the future...positive momentum we all hope, & I still believe an automatic promotion place is STILL just about within reach with 2/3 of the season remaining.

Macca · Oct 27, 2012

SkyblueBazza said:
We have the past...embarrassing
We have the now...poor but improving
Bear in mind we have played at our worst & managed a paltry (considering many people's expectations) 4 points from 8 games against the current top 11...I've chosen 11 as that's where the first noticeable gap in points is - 2!..who are the current batch challenging for play-off places.
We have the future...positive momentum we all hope, & I still believe an automatic promotion place is STILL just about within reach with 2/3 of the season remaining.

Not sure that winning one of the last 3 and losing 2 is momentum but I thought we should win today and we did

stupot07 · Oct 27, 2012

Last 4 D L L W........not what I would call momentum Bazza

stupot07 · Oct 27, 2012

Oh shit......I've just noticed you've mentioned automatic promotion....are you insane?

RichieGunns · Oct 27, 2012

Momentum...Not quite yet but i'd hope we're getting there...slowly but surely!

Automatic promotion...no!

Playoffs...maybe but i wouldn't bet on it!

Midtable...Hopefully!

Relegation...please god no!!!

Do i have Hope for the future...Yes if SISU stick to their promises and Robin's gets the help he needs and deserves to make our team into a promotion chasing side!

SkyblueBazza · Oct 27, 2012

Please read the bloody post properly before commenting. Key words...FUTURE...momentum...hope???
Gives it a whole new perspective.

RichieGunns · Oct 27, 2012

SkyblueBazza said:
Please read the bloody post properly before commenting. Key words...FUTURE...momentum...hope???
Gives it a whole new perspective.

Yes we do have the future to look forward too but i think youll find it's a good season or so before we'll be properly challenging for playoffs/automatic promotion.

I love your positivity but I think a comfortable mid table/just off playoffs would be a good position for us.

Next summer Robin's can wheal and deal in the transfer market to get the players he wants while getting rid of some of the idiots we already have and then we can consider mounting a decent challenge at this league and hopefully automatic promotion back to the Championship!

IN ROBINS WE TRUST!

stupot07 · Oct 27, 2012

SkyblueBazza said:
Please read the bloody post properly before commenting. Key words...FUTURE...momentum...hope???
Gives it a whole new perspective.

I have re-read it...

SkyblueBazza said:
We have the past...embarrassing
We have the now...poor but improving
Bear in mind we have played at our worst & managed a paltry (considering many people's expectations) 4 points from 8 games against the current top 11...I've chosen 11 as that's where the first noticeable gap in points is - 2!..who are the current batch challenging for play-off places.
We have the future...positive momentum we all hope, & I still believe an automatic promotion place is STILL just about within reach with 2/3 of the season remaining.

How can we have something that hasn't happened yet?

SkyblueBazza · Oct 27, 2012

It was Macca & Stu's comments I was aiming that last one at.
I do still think that all still very open in this league. A bit of consistency (next 10 games) & I think we'll be well-placed & comfortable. The final placing would then depend on January influx quality & how quickly they can settle in. BUT the next 10 games need to see 6-7 wins & 2-3 draws.

SkyblueBazza · Oct 27, 2012

stupot07 said:
I have re-read it...

How can we have something that hasn't happened yet?

What you saying? There is no future?

Support-the-team · Oct 27, 2012

Your right bazza. Ignore those cynical morons who are quick to moan about and shoot down any form of positivity about the club

stupot07 · Oct 27, 2012

SkyblueBazza said:
What you saying? There is no future?

There is definitely a future....just how can we 'have' future momentum when the future hasn't happened? We can hope that we gain momentum in the future

Otis · Oct 27, 2012

I will refer the honourable gentleman to my post on another thread.

We can probably only lose about 3 or 4 games for the rest of the entire season.

When all these facts are put together it does make the whole notion look pretty daft doesn't it.

Let's get it all into perspective .......

We are a team in the bottom 4 with the 5th worse scoring record and 6th worse goals against record in the division, who has only won 3 games out of 15 and we are suddenly going to be be winning 15 out of the last 31, drawing 13 and only losing 3 games out of all those?

:facepalm:

Do that (win 15 out of 31, draw 13 and lose just 3) and we will have 72 points, which will almost certainly not be enough for 6th place.

Consolidate this season, re-group and start next season a better and stronger side. That is the common sense response.

And this has nothing to do with lack of ambition, cos you just go out to try and win every game anyway. No-one is saying don't try to win as many games as possible. It's just that everything is firmly stacked against us.

We now need an absolutely sensational rest of the season. With this team?

SkyblueBazza · Oct 27, 2012

stupot07 said:
There is definitely a future....just how can we 'have' future momentum when the future hasn't happened? We can hope that we gain momentum in the future

Struth! Let me spell it out.
We have the future. In the future we hope we can get some positive momentum going & go on a bloody good run, & like Otis suggests, lose very few for the rest of the season. I believe the range of football quality in the league so far suggests with such consistency - it is a possibility (NOT REALITY STU...possibility)
You beg to differ judging by your replies - that's fine.

stupot07 · Oct 27, 2012

SkyblueBazza said:
Struth! Let me spell it out.
We have the future. In the future we hope we can get some positive momentum going & go on a bloody good run, & like Otis suggests, lose very few for the rest of the season. I believe the range of football quality in the league so far suggests with such consistency - it is a mathematicalpossibility (NOT REALITY STU...mathematicalpossibility)
You beg to differ judging by your replies - that's fine.

Thanks Bazza, I think you missed an important work in there so I've amended it for you

The only consistency we've shown is to be consistently inconsistent and have picked up less than a point a game and scoring less than a goal per game, with our top scorer likely to leave in January.

Ignoring what other clubs might do, and looking historically at the points total for 6th place in the last 10 years, and 71 point is the lowest total to get in to the play offs - 59 points in 31 games, and as Otis says we can only lose 3-4 more games between now and the end of the season.
2011/12 - 73 points
2010/11 - 71
2009/10 - 80
2008/09 - 76
2007/08 - 76
2006/07 - 75
2005/06 - 71
2004/05 - 71
2003/04 - 73
2002/03 - 81

Let finish this season on a high, consolidate and go for promotion next season.

SkyblueBazza · Oct 28, 2012

stupot07 said:
Thanks Bazza, I think you missed an important work in there so I've amended it for you

The only consistency we've shown is to be consistently inconsistent and have picked up less than a point a game and scoring less than a goal per game, with our top scorer likely to leave in January.

Ignoring what other clubs might do, and looking historically at the points total for 6th place in the last 10 years, and 71 point is the lowest total to get in to the play offs - 59 points in 31 games, and as Otis says we can only lose 3-4 more games between now and the end of the season.
2011/12 - 73 points
2010/11 - 71
2009/10 - 80
2008/09 - 76
2007/08 - 76
2006/07 - 75
2005/06 - 71
2004/05 - 71
2003/04 - 73
2002/03 - 81

Let finish this season on a high, consolidate and go for promotion next season.

Well...I'm happy to have a positive outlook, & happy for you to have a negative one. One of us might be happy at the end of the season...or both of us, depending on the outcome.

Grendel · Oct 28, 2012

SkyblueBazza said:
Well...I'm happy to have a positive outlook, & happy for you to have a negative one. One of us might be happy at the end of the season...or both of us, depending on the outcome.

Anyone can be positive as that is no bad thing. However when it becomes expectation that is another matter.

If we measure the manager on an expectation of promotion we have a problem. If the club averaged 1.5 points from now that is a great turnaround and would secure mid table and that is positive thinking.

As for automatic promotion that I would guess means dropping no more than 12 - 15 points from now to the end of the season. That is false optimism on a huge scale.

RichieGunns · Oct 28, 2012

SkyblueBazza said:
Well...I'm happy to have a positive outlook, & happy for you to have a negative one. One of us might be happy at the end of the season...or both of us, depending on the outcome.

Stupot isn't being negative! He's being realistic. There's a big difference between the two Bazza. A lot of us accept that this isn't going to be an instant success story. That we have to be realistic and realise that we're probably going to be in this division for at least another season.

The statistics are against us I'm afraid. As stu says it's a mathematical possibility that we could sneak 6th but it's an outside bet and one I wouldn't put any money on. This doesn't mean the club should just give up. We need to be comfortable and getting ourselves firmly placed in the top 10 isn't a bad thing considering our start.

As I said before, your positively is fantastic but in mine and I'm sure in other peoples view, it's slightly misplaced. Your creating false hope for yourself and I can see you being very disappointed by the end of the season. Accepting a top ten for this season and mounting a strong promotion challenge next season isn't as bad as it seems!

We'll get out of this league, it'll just take us longer the we initially thought it might. So you see, while I'm being realistic, I still have a positive outlook too!

Otis · Oct 28, 2012

SkyblueBazza said:
Well...I'm happy to have a positive outlook, & happy for you to have a negative one. One of us might be happy at the end of the season...or both of us, depending on the outcome.

I haven't got a negative outlook. I am just facing facts.

I am nearly always going into every new season feeling positive and believing it could be our year.

But it is now 15 games in, this campaign and we are bottom 4 and what would be needed to be done has never, ever been done before.

That's not being negative that is facing facts and simply being a realist.

dongonzalos · Oct 28, 2012

Otis you are going to hate me for this but this is the alternative view that my optimism emanates from.

5 of our defeats occured on the bounce after we sacked our manager. I do not think that is a coincidence and that it was off field matters that led to those defeats.

MR has come in and we have then had 4 New players 3 of whom went straight into the first 11. RS has been sacked and a new assistant manager/coach in.

This to me is another period of unsettlement.

Hopefully we are now out of that and we settle down a bit.

I don't really buy into the idea that overnight Andy Thorn became a bad scout and managed to sign 9 players who are not good enough.

Even if that is the case which I find highly unlikely. We have added 5 New players since then. Surely MR can't be bad at identifying players aswell.

So we have signed 14 to supplement what we already had. Which is incredible really in league one terms.

Our strength in depth is highlighted recently by Clarke. He is a good player going through a dip in form. Most league one teams would probably have to stick with him. Yet we can bring in Christie, another exciting full back who would get into a lot of league one teams.

Then Cameron gets injured and we can bring in the edge and we keep a clean sheet.

I can't believe that with the strength and depth of our squad we can't go on a run.

As the season goes on and other teams suffer injuries suspensions loss of form. We will have and advantage as we have that depth.

Aside the 5 defeats in that transition period (i include robin's first game).

When we have had a proper manager. We have drew with Sheff Utd, M K Dons and Swindon.

We have lost 2-1 to Notts county who are no mugs.

We lost to a last minute penalty to Brentford. Who have a fantastic home record and many feel will be up there.

I think if we get a bit of stability now and no more chopping changing and messing around. Surely a squad of this size playing with confidence will be very very hard to beat.

Grendel · Oct 28, 2012

Don just answer 2 questions

How many games did we win under thorn this season? Would you say our pre season indicated a good season was ahead?

Before you say it takes time to gel why was our best results achieved when robins introduced more players?

Why cannot you not accept what 90% of people do;

Thorn was a poor manager
He was poor at signing players
He created a culture of failure

Even if you still remain blind to that reality look at the statistical reality that tells us a good season is now mid table.

stupot07 · Oct 28, 2012

Signing 14 players isn't incredible by league 1 standards, Bury signed 19 last season, PNE, Oldham, Charlton, Sheff Weds all signed 20+ players, I'm sure if I trawled through the rest of last seasons stats that there will be quite a few other examples.

dongonzalos · Oct 28, 2012

I was under the impression from posters on here this summer that the only people anywhere near us (9) was preston. However they had released far more than us.

That was from grendel I think. Apologies Grendel if it was not you.

dongonzalos · Oct 28, 2012

How many games of his 4 competitive matches 1.

Unless we lost all 4 matches including a heavy defeat or two. I could never support sacking a manager. You have backed to sign 9 players that quickly.

Never mind 1 win albeit in the cup and 3 draws.

Do you think a win in the cup is acceptable.
Do you think a draw with Sheff Utd is acceptable.

I think most would say yes.

That leaves a draw away first game of the season at Yeovil. I think not the best result but also not really the worst.

That leaves a draw at home to Bury.

That is a bad result. However we saw in that first half what these players are capable of.

Unfortunately in the second half we saw the other side if them.

So hopefully now with a settled manager plus another 5 signings since then. Including our best player. We will now see more of the first 45 minutes performances

stupot07 · Oct 28, 2012

Preston have already signed 18 players this season, if I get chance I'll have a proper look later.

Yes Preston let a lot go, but we have lost 8/9 players from a squad that was already 8-10 players down in terms of quality from the beginning of last season.

dongonzalos · Oct 28, 2012

I just don't think we are as bad as a lot of people are making out.

We were annoyed and dissapointed to not beat Swindon on their own patch. We held Sheff Utd.

They are examples that show that we can compete with best teams in this league.

We should not be so downbeat.

I understand Otis point about raising expectations and putting pressure on Robins.

However I think even the most fickle fan will accept that Robins. Joined on the back of 5 defeats (including his first game).

He cannot be held accountable for that.

You have to judge him on what he does.

Do far 3 wins, 2 draws and 2 defeats.

The 2 defeats were against strong teams.

He has done well so far and with him and this squad I am confident he will do even better.

stupot07 · Oct 28, 2012

Don, you could say the same about last season, only Southampton hammered us, we beat middlesborough who were top 6, outplayed West Ham for 45 mins at home, outplayed Burnley for 45 mins, beat derby who I think we're top of the league at the time, etc.

Last season we competed against most teams except for where it matters most - scoring goals and defending especially holding on to leads which is why we went down.

dongonzalos · Oct 28, 2012

I agree and I felt with a couple of signings last season we would have stayed up.

The difference this season is we have made those signings.

Some will argue the signings are all rubbish but I don't agree. I hope in the long run that becomes the case.

I like Fleck,
I will go against the grain saying I like Barton.
I hope we can hold onto Goldie.
I like Bailey and Jennings. In the holding role.
I am shocked and chuffed that we held onto Wood.
I liked Malaga but I know thst seems dead in the water.

Not sure about Ball.

Edge is growing on me.

Brown like his brother lacks concentration.

I am very dissapointed in Elliott.

smileycov · Oct 28, 2012

if we can string 2 - 3 wins together we will have a beeter look on things. play offs are reachable, but we must be consistent to even start dreaming of that. the cup game may help build momentum.

dongonzalos · Oct 28, 2012

I totally agree eith that. You do need that moment where you win 3 on the trot. Then the whole doom and gloom lifts.

Players scared to pass suddenly grow in confidence.

I would say that's our biggestvweakness at the moment, we have a lot if confidence players.

Your bakers, hussey's Clarke

Who struggle when the shit is hitting the fan.

stupot07 · Oct 28, 2012

But we haven't addressed those issues, we still have one of the worst goalscoring and goal conceding records in the league, the top scoring will be leaving in jan (just like Juke last season), we're still throwing away points from winning positions....and to be honest we look a lot worse possession wise in the midfield compared to lack season.

WillieStanley · Oct 28, 2012

stupot07 said:
lack season.

I like that. Last season was "Lack Season". Lack of players, money, leadership, goals, passion, direction to name but a few.

dongonzalos · Oct 28, 2012

Very apt

stupot07 · Oct 28, 2012

WillieStanley said:
I like that. Last season was "Lack Season". Lack of players, money, leadership, goals, passion, direction to name but a few.

A near carbon copy of this season.

SkyblueBazza · Oct 28, 2012

Well chaps...I maintain that a good run (6-7 wins) over the next 10 games may well see us back in contention. AND provide the momentum needed to carry us through to a mould-breaking end (remember that "impossible" treble that Manure achieved). I assure you this is more hope than expecetation Grendel...but of our next 10, Portsmouth, MK Dons & Stevenage games are the make or break games. Victories against any of them will be a bonus.

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