Michael Jackson (1 Viewer)

tommydazzle said:

Just got me wondering that if these child abuse accusations hold water whether we have to effectively delete his entire back catalogue as we did Gary Glitter. Can an artist's music ever override a crime? Not particularly a fan but we would lose maybe the Jackson 5 stuff, Thriller etc - his dance move videos (moonwalk). He was a megastar in the pop world. Difficult to erase all his hits from any kind of retrospective I would have thought.

I love the short stories of HG Wells but he held well dodgy views re eugenics. So my question is does the achievement of an artist still stand or do we wipe it from history because of their views or actions?

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Roal Dhal was a right wing extremist with very unpleasant views so I think if it’s good enough it’s never going to me wiped.

Easier when all you have is Do You Want Yo Be In My Gang - clearly not

Grendel said:

Roal Dhal was a right wing extremist with very unpleasant views so I think if it’s good enough it’s never going to me wiped.

Easier when all you have is Do You Want Yo Be In My Gang - clearly not

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As much as I disagree with extreme right wing views it wouldn't stop me reading Roal Dhals books but I think being found guilty of child abuse is a different level.

clint van damme said:

As much as I disagree with extreme right wing views it wouldn't stop me reading Roal Dhals books but I think being found guilty of child abuse is a different level.

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It’s almost certain Lewis Carrol was a peadophile

Rolf Harris’s paintings were withdrawn from galleries once he was caught.

On Michael Jackson there is too much money to lose so there will be no issue, Glitter was little loss to the music world and also his ban is only in this country he still makes a good living from the rest of the world

Grendel said:

It’s almost certain Lewis Carrol was a peadophile

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I wasn't aware of that.

tommydazzle said:

So it's the act rather than the thought? Tricky to unravel this one. I'm still trying to work it out.

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when I found out about Jimmy Savile I threw away my Jim 'll fix it badge though I'm still glad he helped me meet the Krankies.

Not been following the MJ issue but always cynical when this stuff comes out after people die. We all know he was strange and not saying it didn’t happen but timing is always weird. Has it been proven then?

Byron, John Donne etc had rather dubious morals, but their poetry's still held up. Wagner's ring cycle was taken on board by Hitler as an inspiration. Numerous artists with dubious morals and, sometimes, being downright illegal.

Where they do differ, is that the artist (or their estate) doesn't benefit financially, unlike, say, Jackson's.

clint van damme said:

when I found out about Jimmy Savile I threw away my Jim 'll fix it badge though I'm still glad he helped me meet the Krankies.

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Post of the Day, m8! :emoji_grin:

It's a very strange one really.
Some people just manage to slip under the radar untouched (see R Kelly) and others get erased from history.
I'm pretty certain that Micheal Jackson was a wrongun, but I still moonwalk when I go into the kitchen with just my socks on. It's pretty apparent that R Kelly was also a wrongun yet stations like Kiss still play his songs. Then the other end you get you Glitters that are thrown on the scrap heap.

Then away from nonces, you have people like your Chris Brown's who openly smacked around (his then missus) Rhianna, the same people who buy his records are the se people who would hate it if their sister was being battered by their other half. Strange.

Then away from music and nonces. WWE completely deleted Chris Benoit from its history books. He's never spoken about. People have actually lost title wins (taken from him) taken off of their record.



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Who lets their kids stay over at a grown man's house anyway?

While this documentary is bringing everything front and centre again, it's really just adding details to accusations that were already known. If anyone suddenly decides to stop playing his music because of this they were willingly ignorant of what's been said of him for years.

Nick said:

Who lets their kids stay over at a grown man's house anyway?

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The same sort that wank off the guy that abducted and married your 14 yo daughter. Fucking weirdos, the world is absolutely full of them.

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A lot of the doc that's being played is being dismissed as scandalous hearsay and what have you, but Vanity Fair have listed 10 undeniable facts about the accusations:


1. There is no dispute that, at age 34, Michael Jackson slept more than 30 nights in a row in the same bed with 13-year-old Jordie Chandler at the boy’s house with Chandler’s mother present. He also slept in the same bed with Jordie Chandler at Chandler’s father’s house. The parents were divorced.

2. So far, five boys Michael Jackson shared beds with have accused him of abuse: Jordie Chandler, Jason Francia, Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson, and Jimmy Safechuck. Jackson had the same nickname for Chandler and Arvizo: “Rubba.” He called Robson “Little One” and Safechuck “Applehead.”

3. Jackson paid $25 million to settle the Chandlers’ lawsuit, with $18 million going to Jordie, $2.5 million to each of the parents, and the rest to lawyers. Jackson said he paid that sum to avoid something “long and drawn out.” Francia also received $2.4 million from Jackson.

4. Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings.

5. The hallway leading to Jackson’s bedroom was a serious security zone covered by video and wired for sound so that the steps of anyone approaching would make ding-dong sounds.

6. Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson’s on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there.

7. According to the Neverland staff interviewed by the Santa Barbara authorities, no one ever saw or knew of a woman spending the night with Michael Jackson, including his two spouses, Debbie Rowe or Lisa Marie Presley. Rowe, the mother of two of Jackson’s children, made it clear to the Santa Barbara authorities that she never had sex with Jackson.

8. The parents of boys Jackson shared beds with were courted assiduously and given myriad expensive gifts. Wade Robson’s mother testified in the 2005 trial that she funneled wages through Jackson’s company and was given a permanent resident visa. Jimmy Safechuck’s parents got a house. Jordie Chandler’s mother got a diamond bracelet.

9. Two of the fathers of those who have accused Jackson, Jordie Chandler and Jimmy Safechuck, committed suicide. Both were estranged from their sons at the time.

10. In a 2002 documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, Jackson told Martin Bashir there was nothing wrong with sharing his bed with boys.

1. "Come round Michael and sleep in bed with my 13 year old"

Is this mother facing charges? Effectively a pimp.

Nick said:

Who lets their kids stay over at a grown man's house anyway?

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Yeah it’s messed up and I have never understood why a lot of people still make excuses for a grown man sharing a bed with children. How naive can you be?

Sick Boy said:

Yeah it’s messed up and I have never understood why a lot of people still make excuses for a grown man sharing a bed with children. How naive can you be?

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They were all effectively pimping their kids to him for payment / gifts. It's not much different to somebody who would rent their kids out to a peado gang for money.

I hope the parents are all being prosecuted.

Nick said:

1. "Come round Michael and sleep in bed with my 13 year old"

Is this mother facing charges? Effectively a pimp.

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While in the light of day, it's easy to say that, but clearly he preyed on the weak, kids from broken families etc, parents at the time who probably have all sorts of guilt over the breakdown of the family. Who were then faced with an extremely generous guy, putting a smile on the kids and parents faces...

SkyBlueScottie said:

While in the light of day, it's easy to say that, but clearly he preyed on the weak, kids from broken families etc, parents at the time who probably have all sorts of guilt over the breakdown of the family. Who were then faced with an extremely generous guy, putting a smile on the kids and parents faces...

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Not really, regardless of how broken a family. Alarm bells should be ringing when there's a strange man in his 30's asking to sleep in the bed of your 13 year old.

Clearly not in a few cases... Like it was mentioned earlier, there's a family who all had some sort of relationship with a fella who abducted and abused their daughter. There's only one person to blame, and that is Jackson.

SkyBlueScottie said:

Clearly not in a few cases... Like it was mentioned earlier, there's a family who all had some sort of relationship with a fella who abducted and abused their daughter. There's only one person to blame, and that is Jackson.

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Yeah I know, I watched the documentary.

The parents need to take their share of the blame too.

pastythegreat said:

Some people just manage to slip under the radar untouched (see R Kelly) and others get erased from history.

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What I don't get is that the R Kelly thing has been known about for years. Why are people acting all surprised now? I couldn't name you a single one of his songs but I knew he was known to be up to this shit.

ajsccfc said:

4. Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings.

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That's like some weird Penn & Teller shit right there...

chiefdave said:

What I don't get is that the R Kelly thing has been known about for years. Why are people acting all surprised now? I couldn't name you a single one of his songs but I knew he was known to be up to this shit.

I don't care who you are or how much money you have, if you're getting accused of things like this you fight to clear your name. You certainty don't make a huge pay off. ​

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He believed he could fly.....

tommydazzle said:

Apparently Radio 2 have dropped him from their playlist. There's also a Channel 4 documentary this week with some of his accusers.

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Now that Radio 2 have dropped Michael Jackson's music, I think it's time I went public about what Ed Sheeran did to me!

Houchens Head said:

Now that Radio 2 have dropped Michael Jackson's music, I think it's time I went public about what Ed Sheeran did to me!

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Are you that "Galway Girl" HH?

Didn't Jackson have something to do with getting Macaulay Culkin to spend time at his ranch when he was still filming the "Home Alone" movies? I'm sure I read it somewhere?