Maths (2 Viewers)

dongonzalos · Mar 1, 2014

15000 * 18 = 270,000

23 games

6.2 million
( tickets sales alone at full sell out every week,, set at a generous average ticket price of £18)

1 million F&B

7.2 million

Wage bill 3 million
Loans interest 2 million
Management fees 1 million
All other expenses of running a stadium bills policing etc 500k
Academy 500k

7 million

All guesstimates

However I went high on the profit side of things

I cant quite see under the perfect scenario of a sell out every week at £18 a ticket where the spare money comes from to clear the debts.

Are my figures way off the mark, am I missing something?

On the above calculation it would take 300 years to clear the investment and start making profit.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 1, 2014

On the income, you've missed out TV money, merchandise sales, advertising deals, and shirt sponsorships. Could also do other things like, naming rights deal on the stadium. Also got potential for unexpected windfalls from big cup ties or good cup runs.

ccfc92 · Mar 1, 2014

just waiting for the "we are better off financially at Sixfields" poster

shmmeee · Mar 1, 2014

Has anyone got the figures from the last accounts?

Flying Fokker · Mar 1, 2014

I think this new stadium idea will be too late anyway.

I may go to a new stadium if it is nearer than Sixfields/ Warwickshire. But the big problem for the club will be fan base. They need to keep one!

They have 1500 fans for home games at the moment. Sisu's alienation of the fans over a long period does not bode well for the future.

The Judicial Review date is the only chance SISU have. If they don't win it will be liquidate or sell.

The football league needs to be acting to avoid this.

skybluelee · Mar 1, 2014

dongonzalos said:
15000 * 18 = 270,000

23 games

6.2 million
( tickets sales alone at full sell out every week,, set at a generous average ticket price of £18)

1 million F&B

7.2 million

Wage bill 3 million
Loans interest 2 million
Management fees 1 million
All other expenses of running a stadium bills policing etc 500k
Academy 500k

7 million

All guesstimates

However I went high on the profit side of things

I cant quite see under the perfect scenario of a sell out every week at £18 a ticket where the spare money comes from to clear the debts.

Are my figures way off the mark, am I missing something?

On the above calculation it would take 300 years to clear the investment and start making profit.

Avg ticket revenue per head at the Ricoh was less than a tenner I think so you have doubled likely revenue with your £18.

ohitsaidwalker king power · Mar 1, 2014

dongonzalos said:
15000 * 18 = 270,000

23 games

6.2 million
( tickets sales alone at full sell out every week,, set at a generous average ticket price of £18)

1 million F&B

7.2 million

Wage bill 3 million
Loans interest 2 million
Management fees 1 million
All other expenses of running a stadium bills policing etc 500k
Academy 500k

7 million

All guesstimates

However I went high on the profit side of things

I cant quite see under the perfect scenario of a sell out every week at £18 a ticket where the spare money comes from to clear the debts.

Are my figures way off the mark, am I missing something?

On the above calculation it would take 300 years to clear the investment and start making profit.

I suspect a Graph will be demanded.....?:thinking about:.....

Godiva · Mar 1, 2014

Management fee's?????

How much does the club receive to support the academy?

coop · Mar 1, 2014

And so far this season at shitfields
We've took at the most £450000 on an average of £15 a ticket before paying the rent to cardoza

skybluelee · Mar 1, 2014

coop said:
And so far this season at shitfields
We've took at the most £450000 on an average of £15 a ticket before paying the rent to cardoza

The real avg must be closer to £7.

rupert_bear · Mar 1, 2014

dongonzalos said:
15000 * 18 = 270,000

23 games

6.2 million
( tickets sales alone at full sell out every week,, set at a generous average ticket price of £18)

.

Yep I can see the likes of Stevenage, Crawley, Shrewsbury, Crewe, Carlisle all being sell outs. Queuing round the block I reckon

shy_tall_knight · Mar 1, 2014

Very optimistic that we will still be in league 1 by the time a fantasy stadium is built. This summer's transfers will be a challenge. Expect us to lose quite a few and struggle to recruit decent permanent signings will be long term loans from premiership clubs.

will am i · Mar 1, 2014

The F&B is too much too. The £1m looks generous and is turnover rather than profit. As they have to buy stuff to sell maybe 30% of the turnover could be counted. I doubt they could do more than £5m in turnover per year. Crowds of 15000 must assume we are doing well and are in the Championship. I suspect the wage bill would need to be more than £3m for that to happen

Houchens Head · Mar 1, 2014

ccfc92 said:
just waiting for the "we are better off financially at Sixfields" poster

Jack Griffin · Mar 1, 2014

Godiva said:
Management fee's?????

How much does the club receive to support the academy?

The same sum as it is supposed to fund the academy from its own resources, about £0.5M

dongonzalos · Mar 1, 2014

Tv rights? Good point how much is it in league one.

I went really generous on the income generated side and still could not get the model to work.

Do we not pay management fee's?

I think we still have to put in 500 million ourselves into the academy.
I don't think I can include cup windfalls as that is speculative.

stupot07 · Mar 1, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Tv rights? Good point how much is it in league one.

I went really generous on the income generated side and still could not get the model to work.

Do we not pay management fee's?

I think we still have to put in 500 million ourselves into the academy.
I don't think I can include cup windfalls as that is speculative.

£500millon???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

dongonzalos · Mar 1, 2014

stupot07 said:
£500millon???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Sounds a bit like Tim's game, of let's pick a capacity.

I am outraged that we earnt £500 million this year and only signed Manset a Scottish youth and Webster as permanent deals.

Godiva · Mar 1, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Do we not pay management fee's?

I think we still have to put in 500 million ourselves into the academy.
I don't think I can include cup windfalls as that is speculative.

No we do not pay management fee's - it was a cost distribution instrument between SBS&L-Holdings-Limited.

£500m is a bit OTT.

dongonzalos · Mar 1, 2014

Godiva said:
No we do not pay management fee's - it was a cost distribution instrument between SBS&L-Holdings-Limited.

£500m is a bit OTT.

So do you know if we pay a fee from the club to SISU for running us and if so how much is it?

Godiva · Mar 1, 2014

dongonzalos said:
So do you know if we pay a fee from the club to SISU for running us and if so how much is it?

We don't.
Sisu are paid by their investors (the funds).

Jack Griffin · Mar 1, 2014

As G says management fees haven't shown up in accounts to data, but as OSB pointed out a charge which was nearly £1M in that year showed up in the last accounts, he speculated this was interest on ARVO loans.

oldskyblue58 said:
The debt has never been about what is in CCFC Ltd or CCFC H. The debt owed sits in what is owed by SBS&L to SISU investors and the amount owed to ARVO. The Interest charged by ARVO is a significant cost to the business possibly pushing £1m pa. The SBS&L loans carry no interest but are a significant obstacle to any third party investors or lenders

After loan conversions and exchanges I am not sure the loan stands at 12m but the filed accounts tomorrow will possibly clear that up (if they are filed)

The debts in the original funds were written down not off there is a difference. If written off then they wont be recovered, if written down then the current value is nil but the full amount is still due

dongonzalos · Mar 1, 2014

Godiva said:
We don't.
Sisu are paid by their investors (the funds).

So when some have stated that a fee is paid which is increases the debt owed by CCFC. This us completely wrong?

Godiva · Mar 1, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
As G says management fees haven't shown up in accounts to data, but as OSB pointed out a charge which was nearly £1M in that year showed up in the last accounts, he speculated this was interest on ARVO loans.

A large portion was likely interest paid to ARVO. That will most probably increase.
It seems ARVO is our bank. Only difference could be if the loans are convertible to equity (I have no idea).

dongonzalos · Mar 1, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
As G says management fees haven't shown up in accounts to data, but as OSB pointed out a charge which was nearly £1M in that year showed up in the last accounts, he speculated this was interest on ARVO loans.

Yes but i already included interest on loans of 1 million plus another million at least if another 20-30 million is coming our way to build a stadium.

Jack Griffin · Mar 1, 2014

dongonzalos said:
So when some have stated that a fee is paid which is increases the debt owed by CCFC. This us completely wrong?

What I believe is happening is that CCFC are borrowing more and more interest bearing loans to keep the club afloat. Consequently the clubs assets, such as they are, are effectively owed by the lenders (ARVO) till such time the loans are paid off.

Godiva · Mar 1, 2014

dongonzalos said:
So when some have stated that a fee is paid which is increases the debt owed by CCFC. This us completely wrong?

I have not seen any evidence of sisu charging any money. I think OSB made some hypothetical suggestions, but so far no hard evidence.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 1, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Tv rights? Good point how much is it in league one.

I went really generous on the income generated side and still could not get the model to work.

Do we not pay management fee's?

I think we still have to put in 500 million ourselves into the academy.
I don't think I can include cup windfalls as that is speculative.

This article says L1 clubs receive £360,000 from the PL fund and championship clubs receive £2.3 million pounds + money received from their own tv deal

dongonzalos · Mar 1, 2014

Looks like tv rights are £500,000
So if we add that plus all other sponsorship, stadium naming rights etc.. you
Could be talking a million?

Then if we go more realistically on attendance and ticket prices say a 12k season average at £14 a ticket ( free tickets, discounts etc..)

£3.8 million

You still end up hitting about even ( if you are lucky) if you remove the management fees and add the TV rights.

It really does not add up.

I wish someone from one of the supporters groups CWR or the CET would point this out and get and explanation

dongonzalos said:
15000 * 18 = 270,000

23 games

6.2 million
( tickets sales alone at full sell out every week,, set at a generous average ticket price of £18)

1 million F&B

7.2 million

Wage bill 3 million
Loans interest 2 million
Management fees 1 million
All other expenses of running a stadium bills policing etc 500k
Academy 500k

7 million

All guesstimates

However I went high on the profit side of things

I cant quite see under the perfect scenario of a sell out every week at £18 a ticket where the spare money comes from to clear the debts.

Are my figures way off the mark, am I missing something?

On the above calculation it would take 300 years to clear the investment and start making profit.

wingy · Mar 1, 2014

CCFC said:
This article says L1 clubs receive £360,000 from the PL fund and championship clubs receive £2.3 million pounds + money received from their own tv deal

Yes Ranson In his wisdom voted In favour of reducing the funds to leagues 3 and 4 who naturally were totally against It.
This increased the take for Champ Clubs by £1M. , what did he do with that windfall, reduce ST prices which were already competitive. These already being subject to a reduced income through the Interest free scheme. They then reduced the price again.
If you were to combine the effect of these actions It came at a potential cost to turnover of somewhere around £1.5-£2M. IMO

Godiva · Mar 1, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Looks like tv rights are £500,000
So if we add that plus all other sponsorship, stadium naming rights etc.. you
Could be talking a million?

Then if we go more realistically on attendance and ticket prices say a 12k season average at £14 a ticket ( free tickets, discounts etc..)

£3.8 million

You still end up hitting about even ( if you are lucky) if you remove the management fees and add the TV rights.

It really does not add up.

I wish someone from one of the supporters groups CWR or the CET would point this out and get and explanation

Maybe we should believe them when they say they want the team promoted?
If nothing else we can say it's not for the fans, but themselves. It's the only way they can make a profit in a new stadium.

dongonzalos · Mar 1, 2014

Godiva said:
Maybe we should believe them when they say they want the team promoted?
If nothing else we can say it's not for the fans, but themselves. It's the only way they can make a profit in a new stadium.

That may work
But I assume to achieve that you will need higher wages.
Once it is achieved you need higher wages again in the championship.

However the extra 5 million does give you something to play with.

However you still at some point need to recoup at least 50 million and you will not do that by chipping away at it.

Unless the 'long haul' means 300 years. Personally unless SISU's investors are warlocks. They are likely to be unimpressed with that move.

wingy · Mar 1, 2014

Don't worry Don none of us will be here then

Jack Griffin · Mar 1, 2014

Good topic on academies here.. http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/18060-Football-Academy-Revolution-We-are-category-2

Category 2
Clubs that cannot meet the required budget requirements and staff levels demanded by Category 1, but still have an indoor training facility will most likely fall into this category.
They will spend less time coaching players each week.
Will be allowed to take players from age 4 and sign players from the age of 9.
Will require an estimated budget of £969k
The current 90 minute travel rule will not apply.

I think the FA funds £500K of the £969K budget, but I can't find a reference ATM.

stupot07 · Mar 1, 2014

wingy said:
Yes Ranson In his wisdom voted In favour of reducing the funds to leagues 3 and 4 who naturally were totally against It.
This increased the take for Champ Clubs by £1M. , what did he do with that windfall, reduce ST prices which were already competitive. These already being subject to a reduced income through the Interest free scheme. They then reduced the price again.
If you were to combine the effect of these actions It came at a potential cost to turnover of somewhere around £1.5-£2M. IMO

IIRC it was under a lot of pressure from the PL and that the deal was part of the parachute payment proposals and the PL basically said either except this or we will withdraw the payments full stop or something to that effect...
Yep they did (allegedly)....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8671551.stm

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Maths (2 Viewers)

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Fairly well known member from Malvern

Jack Griffin

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Jack Griffin

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Jack Griffin

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Jack Griffin

Guest

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency