Let’s tax the old to feed the young

Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by Grendel, May 8, 2018.

  1. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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  2. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    Bollocks to that, I'm probably classed as a millenial but it does my head in.

    Why don't they start saving a bit every month and when they get to 25 they will have some money?
     
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  3. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    It’s a symptom of a disturbed society that the poor youth can’t automatically be entitled to a property without sacrifice given the sacrifice of several generations previously.

    A sacrifice today would be the denial of social media access for 24 hours.
     
  4. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    I don't actually agree with that bit, which is a shame really, as there are some interesting ideas among what they've suggested. Council tax for one is a rather arbitrary system that's a blunt instrument, as it stands.

    Although I'm assuming they're hoping the radical bit draws attention to the less radical bit, I'm not so sure that'll happen... which is a shame, that those discusions will get ignored for the headline. It also doesn't allow for a reasonable conversation about how to make house prices affordable, be it higher leverage on mortgages, or bringing the price of property down.
     
  5. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    House prices were lower in the 90’s as interest rates were 16% - ok by me -you?
     
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  6. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    But again, you miss the fact that to get a mortgage, the leverage remains similar.

    If that's the case about interest rates, then allow people to have a mortgage for five or six times their salary.
     
  7. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    No because if interest rates were that high house prices would be less.

    My first property was £30,000 and the mortgage was £315 a month. My first wage was £12,000 a year in my main job. I got a deposit by working in a pub after work.

    I never went out, I had a car that cost £100 and bought second hand furniture.

    Tell me - would today’s society do that?
     
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  8. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I know what you're trying to say, today's economy is built on people doing exactly those things. In fact even your job is reliant on people of all ages buying unnecessary new cars etc.
    I agree that this is a stupid idea, it does nothing to solve the underlying causes of the housing being unaffordable.
    That said, houses are only unaffordable in some parts of the country and it's those parts where all these think tanks (and the Mps they lobby) are based. That problem needs addressing more than it ever has.
     
  9. wingy

    wingy Well-Known Member

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    It's all a bit arbitary isn't it, the amount ,the cut off age .
    Reality now is 5+ multiples of income however you dress it property and rents are way out of kilter .
    At the start of the crisis a few smart folk myself included suggested rather than print money and give it straight to the banks to hold onto, share it with the Population who could pay down their mortgages, getting rid of the problem.
    The money is then with the banks and you get twice the bang for your buck.
     
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  10. I_Saw_Shaw_Score

    I_Saw_Shaw_Score Well-Known Member

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    Ridiculous, I’m still in the under 30 bracket and our generation and younger are pathetic and so self righteous it’s scary!
     
  11. Marty

    Marty Well-Known Member

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    I did, I was working 100+ hour weeks to afford my house, also bought a shell of a house and spent a year renovating it myself. For 2 years of hard graft, I'm now in an amazing position of being virtually mortgage free at 30. Most of my generation aren't willing to put the graft in and would rather moan about it.

    I've spoken about a lad at work before on here, hes late 20's, still lives with his parents rent free, 3 foreign holidays a year, car on finance, new phone every year, designer clothes but always whinging about not being able to save for a deposit, out on the piss every weekend, meals out at least twice a week. Maybe peoples expectations from life need to be lowered.
     
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  12. Sky_Blue_Daz

    Sky_Blue_Daz Well-Known Member

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    Can we clamp the homeless while we’re at it
     
  13. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    Yes they would do.

    How long do you think it would take the average person to save £20K for a deposit while paying a third of their monthly wage on rent (before bills and council tax).

    We still have furniture in our flat from a house clearance as well and I have always driven old bangers.
     
  14. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    Yet more crass generalisations. Unfortunately there's not an abundance of cheap houses on the market that need to be done up for most of us to get on the cheap.
     
  15. Marty

    Marty Well-Known Member

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    Theres plenty of options and you know that. I left school at 15 without a qualification to my name, if I can achieve it then anyone can. If people can't make it in life then they have no one else to blame apart from themselves, and I won't apologise for working my bollocks off to afford what I have.
     
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  16. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    I assume there are millions of cheap houses that can be bought for nothing to do up, whilst holding down a full time job.
     
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  17. Kingokings204

    Kingokings204 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think they should just be given money. Sends the wrong signal. No doubt the younger have had it worse but then life moves on. Interest rates are next to zero when never before. A lot of young also like going on lots of holidays and live a certain lifestyle. Coffee houses every day. Etc

    I see both sides to this one but don’t just give them money.
     
  18. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people 'work their bollocks off', you are not alone, yet a lot of our generation are not able to buy their own home.

    As I said there's not an abundance of cheap houses on the market like the one you were lucky enough to buy.
     
  19. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    I think some people do turn their noses up sometimes and want everything pretty much done and ready to live in.

    I had it when I bought mine and couldn't move in for a few months while it was gutted. "Why don't you just buy one that's already done"' etc.

    Might just have been people I know but most were so picky, had to be a certain area, already done, big nice garden etc.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  20. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    it's a lot harder to do what you did now.
    You could get a shitty factory job when I left school and still get a mortgage on the wage, (and that was just your wage not including you missus). Things are a lot harder now. Though I don't think the 10,000 grand hand out paid for by the elderly is a good idea myself.
     
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  21. skybluegod

    skybluegod Well-Known Member

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    Have to agree with SB and CVD, it’s very easy to criticise my generation but I think this a completely subjective point.

    The difference today is that 90% of students are going I university and blowing any savings they have, this is an issue almost forced by the education system who get extra funding for students going to university.

    It’s not because of a sense of entitlement but rather because it is in fact a lot harder for my generation to buy a house.
    However as I have said it is completely subjective I myself hope to be buying my own house, next year at the age of 21. But I have the advantage of not going to uni and hence have been able to save for the last 2 years.

    Yes SOME of my generation are all about holidays, and getting pissed every week and coffee shops and designer clothes, but I also know some 40/50 year olds who will with parents or rent and instead buy cars and big TVs and the latest gadgets and then moan they don’t have a house?
    But my girlfriend and I both put money aside into help to buy isa’s so we can afford a house, while also trying to live life now while we can.
     
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  22. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

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    Who called that body influential, it doesn't influence me. In fact isn't it a lop sided political think tank rather than a commission.
     
  23. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    When it is estimated that 1 in 3 of a generation will never own a home, you know something is up. If this trend continues and gets worse for future generations, there's going to a massive need for housing benefit going into the pockets of landlords prevent mass homelessness- or improving legislation around renting.
     
  24. SBAndy

    SBAndy Well-Known Member

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    I'd tend to agree with this, main reason being that a lot of these new build houses seem to be targeted at young families for eye-watering amounts, coupled with the 5% deposit option. Now there are plenty of sensible people my age who have saved and put down very respectable amounts, bringing down their monthly liability and I commend them.

    I, however, was the opposite. I had a BMW age 20 because it was "really cool". I bought shite I didn't need because why the fuck not. Even though I've been generally well-paid for my age, it wasn't enough. I wanted more. And that is a societal problem but also an economic problem, with the consumerist nature of the world today.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not shirking responsibility. I fucked up my early life going out and spending money I didn't have. But it's so easy to do and almost promoted as an option. I fell for every marketing ploy.

    Finally this last year I've matured and realised that I need to sort my life out financially and really knuckle down on the frivolous spending. It's helped that I've had extenuating circumstances in terms of accommodation which I won't go into, but finally I can settle everything and get on with it. Doesn't stop me shooting for the stars when it comes to having my own home but it's really meant I have to cut back on lifestyle choices. I've been without a car for almost 9 months now for example, as I realised it's not an absolute necessity.

    To me, it's a maturity issue. People are turning 21 and not thinking about later life. I'm 26 and have only just started a pension for example. Everything is so focussed around having the best and having it now that it's easy to get lost in it all.

    In summary, I'd love an extra £10k :woot:

    But seriously, it's not a good idea. In 90% of cases it wouldn't be put toward getting on the housing ladder.
     
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  25. wingy

    wingy Well-Known Member

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    And likely inflate the market as the estate agents say thank you very much, same as happens or would happen with the removal of stamp duty .
    Every incentive ends up exploited through the market .
    Since the property market has become an investment tool it can't be cured unless mammoth building projects take hold for a sustained period .
    No Govt has the desire to be honest about devaluing the asset you've been told is the devine tennet of your lifes ambition and hard labour .
    So we are stuck and the market is rigged and locked to many, If that is the case they will have to be more honest around expections of certain generations and still build suitable rental capacity.
    That way they can let us think we've built the dream but take it back when we die or through social care .
     
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  26. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    But what would happen when interest rates go up? They won't stay this low for much longer. If people were allowed to stretch themselves now they would be in trouble later.
     
  27. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    They certainly wouldn’t if Corbyn got the keys to number 10 - the run on the pound would mean a significant rise - then again house prices would crash so I suppose people will be happy
     
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  28. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    You only need to find one. And there are plenty out there.

    I do it as a sideline with a mate. I enjoy doing it. And the taxman enjoys me doing it.

    My first house was a right state. I paid 26k. You stuck to the carpets. Windows were falling out. And they were the best parts. I was working all the hours I could and worked on the house the rest of the time.

    I sold that and moved on. The profit became my next deposit. Leaking pipe, heated with an ancient coal boiler. The place was in a right state. Spent 2 years doing it up when not at work. But when done I sold it. Sold for 125k but only owed 57k. That took me 5 years.

    I have only ever bought houses most people wouldn't even view.

    If you can't afford to buy where you live but want to buy just move. Not far from me you can buy for 40k. And there are plenty of jobs. And there is plenty of cheap houses all around the UK if you are willing to give up what you normally do in life.
     
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  29. wingy

    wingy Well-Known Member

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    They do don't they 5x salary or over 35 years etc.
    These are innitiatives that help or keep the market distorted.
    Referring to Grendels comment you're replying to ,that era was after the first big boom/bubble where gazumping set in.
    He'd have probably got his first house for 10K less a couple of years earlier ,I remember the 16% rates he mentions paying £650 a month on £70K debt.
    But I think it was John Major in power with Norman Lamont as his chancellor, we exited the ERM and George Soros brought the pound to it's knees ,pocketing a cool billion.
    So I don't think idiocy is confined to Corbyn.
     
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  30. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    Why should a young working class person move away from places like London where generations of their family have grown up? Are certain areas of the country going to end up being exclusively available to the rich?

    I would love to do a house up myself but often end up working 14 hour days, which doesn't really leave a lot of time to do much else.
     
  31. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    Lack of time is why my first couple of houses took about 5 years.

    If you want to buy you have to buy where you can afford. Moaning about it but not saving every penny you can won't get you anywhere. My nearest family are 3 hours away. I don't expect life to fall together where I live. I have moved several times to better myself. I don't feel sorry for people who refuse to do the same.
     
  32. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    Why should certain areas of the country be unaffordable for those whose families have lived there for generations?

    Places like London are getting more and more difficult to buy due to the wealthy buying up property. Should there not be affordable housing options available to these people? Should they really be forced to move hundreds of miles just to own a home? Should we be happy for London to be a playground for the super rich and the wealthy to buy up property to rent back out at insanely high rents to normal working people?
     
  33. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    I don't think it has to be miles and mile away. Even moving to different estates or areas can mean the prices change massively.

    I did the same as Astute, bought an absolute shit tip that needed time putting in thats in a not so nice area that had been repossessed. The estate agent wouldn't even go in it was that bad.

    Wont lie it was hard work, stressful and never thought it would get there but it was cheap and we needed a house and didn't want to rent.
     
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  34. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    I saw an article on this today, possibly in the Guardian, where a family had to relocate from Peckham up to Cov just so that they could afford to pay rent. It's utter madness that normal working people are having to move to hundreds of miles just to survive.
     
  35. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    There was nothing in between at all they could afford?
     

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