Les Reid's article (1 Viewer)

James Smith · Dec 13, 2013

tisza said:
Aren't the ultimate "owners" the same? Certainly PWKH gave the Higgs response to the academy deal (not saying he's an owner)

Think he's the clerk to both, the building was paid for by the charity to Cat 2 standards (for us) I know that much EDIT: I had a look at the trustees
http://www.charityperformance.com/charity-details.php?id=17297

J W Elliott, S R Haswell, P W Knatchbull-Hugessen (Secretary), J R Mutton, D J Shortland, K B Hall - is that any relation to Marcus by any chance?

Higgs Trustees: http://www.charityperformance.com/charity-details.php?id=13648

M F Knatchbull-Hugessen (Chairman), P J Davis, A S Young. Officers : P W Knatchbull-Hugessen (Clerk to the Trustees)

Not sure how up to date this is though.

skybluetony176 · Dec 13, 2013

blueflint said:
the last line about breakdown of trust is a farce if they had paid the rent while re negotiating we would be at ricoh now

he talks about breakdown of trust as if they are the victim. there has been an unprecedented breakdown of trust between sisu and the vast majority of ccfc fans.

does he see us as victims?

if he does why does he continue to victimise us?

does he expect us all to use his example of why they cant deal with ACL as what to do when they eventually either acquire the ricoh or build imagination land?

i suspect that CCFC fans are bigger than the people of sisu? depending on the location of imagination land off course, should it ever happen.

skybluefred · Dec 13, 2013

Noggin said:
and months more to buy the site + 18 months planning permission, it will be the 3 years before they even break ground.

Or wind.

skybluefred · Dec 13, 2013

bigfatronssba said:
Why is he so hostile to the Higgs Charity all of a sudden?

He only ever open's his mouth to put his boot in it.

italiahorse · Dec 13, 2013

bigfatronssba said:
Why is he so hostile to the Higgs Charity all of a sudden?

I think they told him to do one when they did not even offer the figure that Higgs baled them out at for their 50%.

Houdi · Dec 13, 2013

Sky Blue Kid said:
@ GRENDUFFY.....Are you reading this???...........................Mr Fisher said the club had options to buy two sites in the Coventry area. One, Brandon speedway stadium, has hit setbacks. Problems include complex ownership involving HMRC, and planning issues. He said 60 acres was needed for training and academy facilities next to a £20million stadium which could begin at 12-15,000 capacity, and expand to 23,000, with planning permission potentially taking“18months”........................................................................................................................Fabulous vision from SISU eh?...A Premier division team with 23k max stadium, that will take years to extend to.

Most of what Les Reid is fair and accurate, but I don't believe he got this bit totally accurate. The line about the stadium capacity is accurate, however I'm almost certain that Fisher never mentioned Brandon as now being one of the 2 sites. I certainly mentioned Brandon but only to tell Fisher they would have no chance of getting planning permission at Brandon and he certainly didn't disagree. Plus Brandon is no where near the 60 acres which TF talked about. Quite why Les Reid continually mentions Brandon I'm not sure, maybe because it is the only real site that has been mentioned and he is desperate to get any named site into the public domain to aid the SISU 'new ground' sales pitch.
The 3 years minimum has now become effectively 4 years minimum and counting, and I would predict come the end of the season it will have reached a minimum of 5 years. How long was Terry Waite kept hostage, I think we are well on course to beat it.

skybluefred · Dec 13, 2013

letsallsingtogether said:
So ours should be ready should be ready by 2026 fuck me could be dead by then!

If I had done that to you the wife would make sure I was dead.lol

martcov · Dec 13, 2013

To me it seems stranger and stranger. We have now got someone working to bring a Coventry Flair into the design of a none existant stadium. Seems a bit premature when all we have so far are delays and problems finding a site for a small stadium in a village or small town somewhere near here ( Coventry ). Years of pumping money into a business ( not team ) hated by it's established customers still to come. Falling out with a local charity and at the same time talking about being involved in the community. Threats to the customers, intimidation of the landlords and thus potential working Partners. Bad Publicity in the national press. Heated exchanges at the Holdings shareholders meeting. SISU sure made some mistake taking on CCFC. Millions gone down the tubes. No-one could write a script as bad as this. Something has got to give soon.

shmmeee · Dec 13, 2013

martcov said:
To me it seems stranger and stranger. We have now got someone working to bring a Coventry Flair into the design of a none existant stadium. Seems a bit premature when all we have so far are delays and problems finding a site for a small stadium in a village or small town somewhere near here ( Coventry ). Years of pumping money into a business ( not team ) hated by it's established customers still to come. Falling out with a local charity and at the same time talking about being involved in the community. Threats to the customers, intimidation of the landlords and thus potential working Partners. Bad Publicity in the national press. Heated exchanges at the Holdings shareholders meeting. SISU sure made some mistake taking on CCFC. Millions gone down the tubes. No-one could write a script as bad as this. Something has got to give soon.

Genuinely have never seen the words Coventry and Flair in the same sentence before...

James Smith · Dec 13, 2013

bigfatronssba said:
Why is he so hostile to the Higgs Charity all of a sudden?

They still exist?

James Smith · Dec 13, 2013

martcov said:
To me it seems stranger and stranger. We have now got someone working to bring a Coventry Flair into the design of a none existant stadium. Seems a bit premature when all we have so far are delays and problems finding a site for a small stadium in a village or small town somewhere near here ( Coventry ). Years of pumping money into a business ( not team ) hated by it's established customers still to come. Falling out with a local charity and at the same time talking about being involved in the community. Threats to the customers, intimidation of the landlords and thus potential working Partners. Bad Publicity in the national press. Heated exchanges at the Holdings shareholders meeting. SISU sure made some mistake taking on CCFC. Millions gone down the tubes. No-one could write a script as bad as this. Something has got to give soon.

I can't wait to read the book though.

dongonzalos · Dec 14, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
Fisher is saying they won't even talk to the Higgs charity now!

Only when it suits
Academy?
It can be done but only when it suits.

Grendel · Dec 14, 2013

dongonzalos said:
Only when it suits
Academy?
It can be done but only when it suits.

Did Higgs reject the CVA?

mark82 · Dec 14, 2013

I just cannot buy into plans for a 12-14k stadium wherever it is. It's ridiculous.

wingy · Dec 14, 2013

mark82 said:
I just cannot buy into plans for a 12-14k stadium wherever it is. It's ridiculous.

Do you think Its deliberately feeble to create the reaction Its getting ,just another tactic to get the GCBTTR /KCIC lobby doing their bidding for them,I mean lets face It Fisher can't get any oxygen, nor should he.

wingy · Dec 14, 2013

I just love the emphasis on "Fans hostile " to SISU/ OTIUM,what on earth does he or they expect ? Hell, what we meant to do ,pat them on the back.Even the 2K that go down there mostly realise whats happened Is wrong and I'd wager from perception no more than 5% are fully with the strategy .

On another note ,Is there no longer a comments section In the CT anymore?

Astute · Dec 14, 2013

mark82 said:
I just cannot buy into plans for a 12-14k stadium wherever it is. It's ridiculous.

Don't worry. We all know it will be bigger than this. Grendull told us so.

James Smith · Dec 14, 2013

Grendel said:
Did Higgs reject the CVA?

If I remember correctly the Higgs centre didn't and PWKH said that it is very difficult for a charity to reject a CVA. I think they must try and retrieve as much as they can and rejecting a CVA wouldn't do that.

kevinleftpeg · Dec 14, 2013

morals & SISU in the same sentence is like Stevie Wonder & driving license in another.

You just cannot make this shit up. JUST FUCK OFF Fisher & all your dirty scum. Our Football Club is bigger than you, just.

shmmeee · Dec 14, 2013

wingy said:
Do you think Its deliberately feeble to create the reaction Its getting ,just another tactic to get the GCBTTR /KCIC lobby doing their bidding for them,I mean lets face It Fisher can't get any oxygen, nor should he.

This is exactly my suspicion.

ccfcway · Dec 14, 2013

i simply dont get all of this moaning.

We cant have it all,

It amazes me that less than 48 hours ago we proudly announced we now have an official "Portugese restaurant partner" and yet people are now asking for a place to play near coventry as well.

Some people have short memories !

dongonzalos · Dec 14, 2013

Grendel said:
Did Higgs reject the CVA?

Not sure

But here you have Mr Fisher saying they can't do business with Higgs charity at the exact moment that they are.

One can only assume they can do business with them but are choosing not to

DazzleTommyDazzle · Dec 14, 2013

ccfcway said:
i simply dont get all of this moaning.

We cant have it all,

It amazes me that less than 48 hours ago we proudly announced we now have an official "Portugese restaurant partner" and yet people are now asking for a place to play near coventry as well.

Some people have short memories !

At last - someone with true perspective!

Sky Blues · Dec 15, 2013

I have a few questions and a couple of observations (in bold)...

RoboCCFC90 said:
Coventry City’s chief executive says buying land for a new stadium could now be months away. Wasn’t it only weeks away this summer?
Under questioning from some sceptical fans hostile to club owners Sisu/Otium, Tim Fisher and hired property consultants CBRE insisted negotiations with landowners continued - and were genuine. I know there are fans that spread the blame around but are there any that actually like Sisu?
He added “plan B” of returning to the council-owned Ricoh Arena could only happen with a stadium sale to bring in vital club revenue from the stadium, not with club returning as tenants. Haven't people on here more financially savvy than I suggested you don’t need to own the stadium to own the revenue streams and that owning ACL would achieve that?
Mr Fisher re-iterated Sisu boss Joy Seppala was calling for a sale of the “unincumbered freehold” owned by Coventry City Council. Why? I thought they had “moved on” and were building their own stadium?
He added it did not exclude the possibility of Sisu buying a long leasehold, not the 50-year lease currently held by Arena Coventry Limited.
But he said the council would first have to negotiate with 50per cent ACL stakeholder, the Alan Edward Higgs Charity, who the club would no longer deal with. Maybe I am becoming forgetful, but can someone remind me when the charity became the problem? Wasn't it the council they had an issue with?
<<Fast forward>>
Mr Fisher said the club had options to buy two sites in the Coventry area. One, Brandon speedway stadium, has hit setbacks. Problems include complex ownership involving HMRC, and planning issues. Why am I not surprised?
He said 60 acres was needed for training and academy facilities next to a £20million stadium which could begin at 12-15,000 capacity, and expand to 23,000, with planning permission potentially taking “18 months”. According to an interest rate calculator I just used, at, for example, 5 per cent interest over 30 years, a £20million loan would only cost £1.29million per year to pay-off. I’m glad that sort of sum won’t “bleed us dry”…
He said hopes for a Ricoh sale had been undermined by a recent renewed rental offer by part-owned council firm Arena Coventry Limited. Damn those people offering CCFC low rent deals!
Asked why the club was pressing ahead with a judicial review against Coventry City Council’s £14million ACL “bailout”, he said there was a “moral principle”, as a judge had ruled there was an arguable case the council had acted with improper conduct. Isn’t this a circular argument? A judge ruled there was an arguable case because Sisu went to court and argued there was a case and when that was rejected went back and argued it again. If Sisu hadn’t argued the issue there would not have been an arguable case would there?
<<Fast forward>>
Otium’s late filed accounts revealed just under £8million of debts relating to loans from Arvo Master Fund over two years. Joy Seppala insists total club liabilities are around £60million. I'll leave this point to those more financially savvy than me.
Mr Fisher attributed the delay in the accounts for Holdings accounts - which will now not be filed with the company being dissolved - to uncertainty when related company CCFC Ltd was in administration - and problems getting an auditor to sign off the group accounts. That’s unfortunate. Who put CCFC Ltd into administration?
He asked Mr Fletcher to explain at the meeting before Mr Pressley and club development director Steve Waggott his and the trust’s role in actions which lost the team ten League points from its League One campaign this season. Would anyone have been put in the position of having the option of removing points if Sisu had paid some rent for the Ricoh last season?
<<Fast forward>>
Mr Fisher said the club had tried in negotiations last year to buy the half-stake in ACL owned by the Alan Edward Higgs Charity, but had failed. Why? Is he saying Sisu did not walk away as I seem to recall PWKH alleging? Please correct me if I have misunderstood!
He said the club would not now seek any deal directly with ACL. Why? Is anyone seriously suggesting these tough-minded business people would let a balloon or balloons on a car get in the way of CCFC missing out on hundreds of thousands of pounds of income by playing in Northampton?
But he said it was for the council to decide what would happen with ACL if there was a sale, adding that Higgs charity clerk Peter Knatchbull-Hughesen would have “something to say about that”, to which several fans agreed. What is he trying to say? Any member of the board of ACL would have a say wouldn’t they? Didn’t Mr Knatchbull-Hughesen vote for the CVA, if I recall correctly?
The club says the rental and matchday costs would be higher than payments of around £150,000 for playing at Northampton. It accepts higher gates with a Ricoh return would make it financially better for the club. So...
But the club insists it must own its own stadium, and there had been a total breakdown in trust and relations with ACL and the council. And who started that breakdown of trust?

James Smith · Dec 15, 2013

Sky Blues said:
I have a few questions and a couple of observations (in bold)...

RoboCCFC90 said:

Coventry City’s chief executive says buying land for a new stadium could now be months away. Wasn’t it only weeks away this summer?

Click to expand...

And we were promised a look at the plans too weren't we?

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

Under questioning from some sceptical fans hostile to club owners Sisu/Otium, Tim Fisher and hired property consultants CBRE insisted negotiations with landowners continued - and were genuine. I know there are fans that spread the blame around but are there any that actually like Sisu?

Click to expand...

Anyone?

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

He added “plan B” of returning to the council-owned Ricoh Arena could only happen with a stadium sale to bring in vital club revenue from the stadium, not with club returning as tenants. Haven't people on here more financially savvy than I suggested you don’t need to own the stadium to own the revenue streams and that owning ACL would achieve that?

Click to expand...

Yes, but could we focus on Plan A please Tim.

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

Mr Fisher re-iterated Sisu boss Joy Seppala was calling for a sale of the “unincumbered freehold” owned by Coventry City Council. Why? I thought they had “moved on” and were building their own stadium?

Click to expand...

Wait what happened to Plan A? We can't play in two stadiums so why the need for the Ricoh?

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

He added it did not exclude the possibility of Sisu buying a long leasehold, not the 50-year lease currently held by Arena Coventry Limited.
But he said the council would first have to negotiate with 50per cent ACL stakeholder, the Alan Edward Higgs Charity, who the club would no longer deal with. Maybe I am becoming forgetful, but can someone remind me when the charity became the problem? Wasn't it the council they had an issue with?

Click to expand...

Probably around the same time that someone realised that there would be serious negative PR implications taking a charity to court to force a sale, and what cases would they have? Far easier to get the council to do it, and Sisu/CCFC have no problems with taxpayer money being spent to buy the Higgs out?

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

Mr Fisher said the club had options to buy two sites in the Coventry area. One, Brandon speedway stadium, has hit setbacks. Problems include complex ownership involving HMRC, and planning issues. Why am I not surprised?

Click to expand...

We've been saying, the media have been saying Brandon is a no hoper since it was first mooted.

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

He said 60 acres was needed for training and academy facilities next to a £20million stadium which could begin at 12-15,000 capacity, and expand to 23,000, with planning permission potentially taking “18 months”. According to an interest rate calculator I just used, at, for example, 5 per cent interest over 30 years, a £20million loan would only cost £1.29million per year to pay-off. I’m glad that sort of sum won’t “bleed us dry”…

Click to expand...

:facepalm:

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

He said hopes for a Ricoh sale had been undermined by a recent renewed rental offer by part-owned council firm Arena Coventry Limited. Damn those people offering CCFC low rent deals!

Click to expand...

Very worried about how lost Plan A is getting in all this.

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

Asked why the club was pressing ahead with a judicial review against Coventry City Council’s £14million ACL “bailout”, he said there was a “moral principle”, as a judge had ruled there was an arguable case the council had acted with improper conduct. Isn’t this a circular argument? A judge ruled there was an arguable case because Sisu went to court and argued there was a case and when that was rejected went back and argued it again. If Sisu hadn’t argued the issue there would not have been an arguable case would there?

Click to expand...

And as there is a moral principle at stake they'll be going after Swansea, Forest, Northampton etc. over their council deals?

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

Otium’s late filed accounts revealed just under £8million of debts relating to loans from Arvo Master Fund over two years. Joy Seppala insists total club liabilities are around £60million. I'll leave this point to those more financially savvy than me.

Click to expand...

Ditto

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

Mr Fisher attributed the delay in the accounts for Holdings accounts - which will now not be filed with the company being dissolved - to uncertainty when related company CCFC Ltd was in administration - and problems getting an auditor to sign off the group accounts. That’s unfortunate. Who put CCFC Ltd into administration?

Click to expand...

I think that's a matter of public record.

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

He asked Mr Fletcher to explain at the meeting before Mr Pressley and club development director Steve Waggott his and the trust’s role in actions which lost the team ten League points from its League One campaign this season. Would anyone have been put in the position of having the option of removing points if Sisu had paid some rent for the Ricoh last season?

Click to expand...

All they had to do as I understsnd it was just start serious negotiations with ACL.

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

Mr Fisher said the club had tried in negotiations last year to buy the half-stake in ACL owned by the Alan Edward Higgs Charity, but had failed. Why? Is he saying Sisu did not walk away as I seem to recall PWKH alleging? Please correct me if I have misunderstood!

Click to expand...

I thought they also had agreed to cover the Higgs Charity costs relating to the Heads Of Terms - have they done that yet?

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

He said the club would not now seek any deal directly with ACL. Why? Is anyone seriously suggesting these tough-minded business people would let a balloon or balloons on a car get in the way of CCFC missing out on hundreds of thousands of pounds of income by playing in Northampton?

Click to expand...

Maybe they're going to go to Psychic Sally and have her talk to ACL telepathically?

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

But he said it was for the council to decide what would happen with ACL if there was a sale, adding that Higgs charity clerk Peter Knatchbull-Hughesen would have “something to say about that”, to which several fans agreed. What is he trying to say? Any member of the board of ACL would have a say wouldn’t they? Didn’t Mr Knatchbull-Hughesen vote for the CVA, if I recall correctly?

Click to expand...

As PWKH appears to be the ACL spokesperson, yes I suspect he would, so no surprise there then - what was the point they were trying to make?

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

The club says the rental and matchday costs would be higher than payments of around £150,000 for playing at Northampton. It accepts higher gates with a Ricoh return would make it financially better for the club. So...

Click to expand...

Onward into the financial valley of death rode the 1,0000........

Sky Blues said:
RoboCCFC90 said:

But the club insists it must own its own stadium, and there had been a total breakdown in trust and relations with ACL and the council. And who started that breakdown of trust?

Click to expand...

Couldn't say, but not convinced that not paying rent generates trust. Not convinced that allegedly walking away from negotiations generates trust etc.

Hobo · Dec 15, 2013

What makes me laugh is how some people have interpreted "buying land for a new stadium could now be months away".

Some people have used it to show SISU's intent to build a new stadium and the land purchase is imminent.

It is actually a nothing statement, something Fisher is good at.

It could also be interpreted as the purchase is further away than ever.

Brandon was an obvious choice on paper, but like loads of us knew on here it was fraught with problems: Planning, listed buildings, contested ownership, revenue battle.

One of the reasons for the sale is because they haven't been able to develop the site.

It's all Fisher bluster, blaming others for their own mess. Some people are so easy to convince.

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 15, 2013

Who are these people who have been convinced?

This thread has precisely zero...

Hobo · Dec 15, 2013

And what is on one thread or even on this forum doesn't always capture the views of all fans.

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 15, 2013

So who has been convinced?

Astute · Dec 15, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
So who has been convinced?

Timothy won't convince anyone until we see proof of what he is saying, and even then most won't trust him 100%

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