Les Reid's article (1 Viewer)

and months more to buy the site + 18 months planning permission, it will be the 3 years before they even break ground.

Here's a link to the CT: http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/buying-land-new-coventry-city-6404266?

Anyone got access to the full minutes??

Comments for this article have been disabled - whatever happened to free speech?

Coventry City’s chief executive says buying land for a new stadium could now be months away.
Under questioning from some sceptical fans hostile to club owners Sisu/Otium, Tim Fisher and hired property consultants CBRE insisted negotiations with landowners continued - and were genuine.
He added “plan B” of returning to the council-owned Ricoh Arena could only happen with a stadium sale to bring in vital club revenue from the stadium, not with club returning as tenants.
Mr Fisher re-iterated Sisu boss Joy Seppala was calling for a sale of the “unincumbered freehold” owned by Coventry City Council.
He added it did not exclude the possibility of Sisu buying a long leasehold, not the 50-year lease currently held by Arena Coventry Limited.
But he said the council would first have to negotiate with 50per cent ACL stakeholder, the Alan Edward Higgs Charity, who the club would no longer deal with.
On the new stadium, Mr Fisher told a heated meeting of fan shareholders of CCFC Holdings Ltd, which is being dissolved: “We’d be delighted to announce something in a short number of months. It doesn’t happen overnight. It’s frustrating for us.”
In the summer the club said it had hoped to ‘‘finalise a deal’’ by mid-September.
With team boss Steven Pressley present at Coventry City Supporters Club, Freehold Street, Hillfields, on Tuesday, CBRE’s Eleanor Deeley said: “We can only work as fast as other parties.”
Ms Deeley, of the firm which delivered Brentford’s new stadium, added: “I’m not here to go into discussions on individual sites. If I gave details I would be jeopardising delivery.”
Mr Fisher said the club had options to buy two sites in the Coventry area. One, Brandon speedway stadium, has hit setbacks. Problems include complex ownership involving HMRC, and planning issues.
He said 60 acres was needed for training and academy facilities next to a £20million stadium which could begin at 12-15,000 capacity, and expand to 23,000, with planning permission potentially taking “18 months”.
He said hopes for a Ricoh sale had been undermined by a recent renewed rental offer by part-owned council firm Arena Coventry Limited.
Asked why the club was pressing ahead with a judicial review against Coventry City Council’s £14million ACL “bailout”, he said there was a “moral principle”, as a judge had ruled there was an arguable case the council had acted with improper conduct.
Councillors in private in January approved using £14million of taxpayers’ money to buy out ACL’s mortgage from Yorkshire Bank, which ACL would then pay back to the council at lower interest payments.
The council’s own papers submitted to the High Court revealed one “council valuation” for “the Ricoh” had been £6.4million in January.
The council’s High Court papers revealed the figure in the context of the bank’s concerns ACL would not be able to pay back the mortgage, and the bank’s concerns its security was worth less than the loan itself. Sisu companies claim the council had overpaid in buying out the mortgage.
The council claims the transaction was on commercial terms to prevent ACL becoming insolvent, with the club withholding part of its rent payments.
Tuesday’s meeting saw angry exchanges between Mr Fisher and members of fans group Sky Blue Trust John Fletcher and Lionel Bird. The trust had sought to prevent Otium winning the League’s golden share in August.
Mr Fletcher asked why Holdings’ 2011/12 accounts were filed late, prompting Companies House to threaten prosecution.
Mr Bird sought accounts showing any value placed on assets, including players’ contracts, when they were transferred to Otium, the company which after August became the football club.
Otium has combined the assets previously straddled between Holdings and CCFC Ltd, the company which was in administration and is now in liquidation - with only the club’s lease and license for playing at the Ricoh left in it.
Mr Fisher said there was no such value in the assets moved between companies which shared a parent company, and it was part of arrangements over debt. Holdings owed money to Otium lent to the club by Sisu-related hedge fund Arvo Master Fund. There is no suggestion of any wrongdoing.
Otium’s late filed accounts revealed just under £8million of debts relating to loans from Arvo Master Fund over two years. Joy Seppala insists total club liabilities are around £60million.
Mr Fisher attributed the delay in the accounts for Holdings accounts - which will now not be filed with the company being dissolved - to uncertainty when related company CCFC Ltd was in administration - and problems getting an auditor to sign off the group accounts.
The club’s accountant, Steve Brookfield, said the published “consolidated” accounts for related company Sky Blue Sports & Leisure Ltd effectively showed Holdings’ accounts.
Mr Fisher questioned Mr Fletcher’s, the trust’s and ACL’s role in the long-running dispute and actions which led to the team losing ten points.
Mr Fletcher denied involvement in writing letters to Companies House, on behalf of Bob Ainsworth MP.
Mr Fisher also referred to a letter by then ACL chairman Nick Carter to the club’s auditors BDO in February - which stated BDO should consider whether to sign off the club as a “going concern”, given negotiations over Ricoh rent and ownership had collapsed.
He asked Mr Fletcher to explain at the meeting before Mr Pressley and club development director Steve Waggott his and the trust’s role in actions which lost the team ten League points from its League One campaign this season.
ACL on August 2 rejected a Company Voluntary Arrangement proposal by administrator Paul Appleton to bring the club out of administration.
On the same day, the Football League awarded its crucial golden share to Otium on the condition the club accepted losing 10 points and ACL would not be financially penalised for the CVA being declined.
Mr Fletcher accepted the Trust has urged the Football League not to transfer the share to Otium.
Mr Waggott said that, from his discussions with the Football League, the club had “come within 15 minutes” of not being able to play in League One this season unless the share was transferred to Otium and the League sanctioned the club’s groundshare at Northampton Town’s Sixfields.
Mr Fletcher alleged the League had “had a gun placed to its head”.
Several fans demanded to know why Ms Seppala was insisting on a sale of the Ricoh freehold, rather the lease which would still enable club revenues, including from the sales of food and beverage.
Mr Fisher said the club had tried in negotiations last year to buy the half-stake in ACL owned by the Alan Edward Higgs Charity, but had failed.
He said the club would not now seek any deal directly with ACL.
But he said it was for the council to decide what would happen with ACL if there was a sale, adding that Higgs charity clerk Peter Knatchbull-Hughesen would have “something to say about that”, to which several fans agreed.
Council leader Ann Lucas has said she does not rule out further talks with Ms Seppala over a sale, dispute ACL’s latest three-year rent offer.
It would see the club charged no rent this season, but with matchday costs of £320,000 - and a £100,000 rent on top for the next two seasons.
The club says the rental and matchday costs would be higher than payments of around £150,000 for playing at Northampton. It accepts higher gates with a Ricoh return would make it financially better for the club.
But the club insists it must own its own stadium, and there had been a total breakdown in trust and relations with ACL and the council.

So in essence as we already know we are in Northampton because of a playground spat between ACL and Sisu.

Grrrreat.

cheers for the info robo i still believe most of that is bullshit i can't see any return to ricoh so i will be looking for another club to support soon

AJB1983 said:

Just been posted on gmk, if anyone wants to read it. I won't post a link in case I get threatened with legal action...;-)

Just so many questions again....2 main ones....
1. why did trust and relations break down with acl? (Mmm I wonder)
2. They say they won't deal directly with acl, so why the fuck do they moan and make such a song and dance about acl making offers via the football league or administrator?

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Fisher is saying they won't even talk to the Higgs charity now!

the last line about breakdown of trust is a farce if they had paid the rent while re negotiating we would be at ricoh now

blueflint said:

cheers for the info robo i still believe most of that is bullshit i can't see any return to ricoh so i will be looking for another club to support soon

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Keep the faith flint, hopefully will be able to look back on this soon as one bad nightmare. What I don't get is if the new stadium plans are a crock of shit then why are CBRE going along with it, they don't want to damage their reputation so if it's all bull just pull the plug?

Jack Griffin said:

Fisher is saying they won't even talk to the Higgs charity now!

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Weren't it PWKH who tied a balloon to Fisher's car at Crawley last season?

Well they have had plenty of time to buy the Higgs half of ACL . Am I right in thinking that option expired when they decided to liquidate CCFC ?
This is a hedge fund. Hardball all the way until they make a lot of money and disappear into the sunset. CCFC is doomed with these ppl owning us.

RoboCCFC90 said:

Weren't it PWKH who tied a balloon to Fisher's car at Crawley last season?

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Sure, a stupid error of judgement, but hardly a reason to no longer talk to them.

The charity may come out of this exceedingly badly if SISU get their way & I for one can't accept that.
What is your view on the acceptability of the Higgs Charity being substantially damaged in order for SISU to prevail?

Why is he so hostile to the Higgs Charity all of a sudden?

bigfatronssba said:

Why is he so hostile to the Higgs Charity all of a sudden?

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Seems like even charity isn't exempt from being sisued. Lets hope they don't try and take the Higgs out as well in their little row with the council. I for one would find that too much and could never give any money to CCFC with SISU in charge.

because they wont give them their share in the ricoh for fuck all like they expect the council to thats why they keep dragging everybody into court to try to batter them in to submission its what SISU do they are just low life scum

Are the personnel linked with the higgs centre not the same as those linked with the higgs part of the ACL? Seeing as a deal was just sorted for youth team to stay there it would seem that the higgs people can be worked with when it's to SISU's benefit.

So a few months for a site, another 18 for planning, plus what another 18 minimum for build?

So were looking at first game August 2017. Any up for waiting for that? It'll be 2016 before Sisu have to lay a brick.

That keeps the club in limbo for 2 more years. No AFC, no ACL moving on completely.

What a fucking waste.

Noggin said:

Asked why the club was pressing ahead with a judicial review against Coventry City Council’s £14million ACL “bailout”, he said there was a “moral principle”, as a judge had ruled there was an arguable case the council had acted with improper conduct.

Who kidnaped Fisher and replaced him with a comedian?

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Ah that SISU and thier morals!

tisza said:

Are the personnel linked with the higgs centre not the same as those linked with the higgs part of the ACL? Seeing as a deal was just sorted for youth team to stay there it would seem that the higgs people can be worked with when it's to SISU's benefit.

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Maybe it's more the people on Sisus side. If imagine Joy and possibly Fisher isn't involved and it's either Waggott or one of the youth/coaching staff.

tisza said:

Are the personnel linked with the higgs centre not the same as those linked with the higgs part of the ACL? Seeing as a deal was just sorted for youth team to stay there it would seem that the higgs people can be worked with when it's to SISU's benefit.

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They were forced to negotiate because the FA wouldn't sanction the academy (& the consequent £0.5M grant) unless they moved to a suitable venue & the Alan Higgs Centre was the only option.
I think their plan was to screw the AHC & move to Warwick Uni, but the facilities were not up to scratch, despite TF's assertion in the July forums that the facilities were 'knockout'.. well however good they are they weren't up to spec. actually!

So no hint of double standards then. If it was financial then joy must have been involved. Also didn't the higgs trust support the CVA?

@ GRENDUFFY.....Are you reading this???...........................Mr Fisher said the club had options to buy two sites in the Coventry area. One, Brandon speedway stadium, has hit setbacks. Problems include complex ownership involving HMRC, and planning issues. He said 60 acres was needed for training and academy facilities next to a £20million stadium which could begin at 12-15,000 capacity, and expand to 23,000, with planning permission potentially taking“18months”........................................................................................................................Fabulous vision from SISU eh?...A Premier division team with 23k max stadium, that will take years to extend to.

Or better still Grenduffy...Successive promotions to the Prem...with a 7k ground???!!!???

Jack Griffin said:

Sure, a stupid error of judgement, but hardly a reason to no longer talk to them.

The charity may come out of this exceedingly badly if SISU get their way & I for one can't accept that.
What is your view on the acceptability of the Higgs Charity being substantially damaged in order for SISU to prevail?

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A very stupid error of judgement given the tense nature of the situation.

My view on it is that anything happened to the Charity on spite of Sisu getting the Charity's stake of the Ricoh it would be a catastrophe if it crippled them it would be morally wrong but expected.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If there's a "moral principle" at stake are SISU going to go after the multi million pound loan Nottingham Council acted as a guarantor on for Nottingham Forest. In 2004 Forest then failed to make an interest payment on the loan some distance into the repayment period and the council were forced to make it on their behalf, with the club paying up later on (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/nottinghamshire/3850337.stm). Or the Liberty Stadium in Swansea where the council wrote off a £2.6Million loan they made to the Stadium Management Company - SMC - (http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/C...tory-12754243-detail/story.html#ixzz2Z8Neq5qQ) then of course there's the Northampton Town £12M Sixfields loan (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-23168498) etc. And then what about every other stadia in the country where the council and the local club are in partnership (usually called an SMC*) where the council have either propped up the SMC or taken little or no revenue from it are going to be in trouble then.

I do hope there won't be any double standards here and they're not just being vindictive. If they do boy are we going to be popular especially with our current landlords Northampton.

What a crying shame we never took the oportunity to buy the charity share when we had the opportunity and now CCFC/Otium/SISU are talking about them (but not too them) too in less than flattering tones :face palm:.

I hope the weather is better in the Midlands than it is down here, bloody raining hard down here.

"Ms Deeley, of the firm which delivered Brentford’s new stadium, added: “I’m not here to go into discussions on individual sites. If I gave details I would be jeopardising delivery.”Just to clarify, Brentford’s new stadium, first mooted in 2002 is currently planned for completion in 2016, so not exactly delivered yet. More Suesue spin.

He won't reply even when it is put in front of him he wants more links so that he can diss other posters.

In other words if he didn't start it it ain't true........

Sky Blue Kid said:

@ GRENDUFFY.....Are you reading this???...........................Mr Fisher said the club had options to buy two sites in the Coventry area. One, Brandon speedway stadium, has hit setbacks. Problems include complex ownership involving HMRC, and planning issues. He said 60 acres was needed for training and academy facilities next to a £20million stadium which could begin at 12-15,000 capacity, and expand to 23,000, with planning permission potentially taking“18months”........................................................................................................................Fabulous vision from SISU eh?...A Premier division team with 23k max stadium, that will take years to extend to.

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So ours should be ready should be ready by 2026 fuck me could be dead by then!

thegameaintstraight said:

"Ms Deeley, of the firm which delivered Brentford’s new stadium, added: “I’m not here to go into discussions on individual sites. If I gave details I would be jeopardising delivery.”Just to clarify, Brentford’s new stadium, first mooted in 2002 is currently planned for completion in 2016, so not exactly delivered yet. More Suesue spin.

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thegameaintstraight said:

"Ms Deeley, of the firm which delivered Brentford’s new stadium, added: “I’m not here to go into discussions on individual sites. If I gave details I would be jeopardising delivery.”Just to clarify, Brentford’s new stadium, first mooted in 2002 is currently planned for completion in 2016, so not exactly delivered yet. More Suesue spin.

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I think the Brentford flats that they want to build are coming under some flack for spoiling the views from Kew Gardens. Will try and find a link.

he said the council would first have to negotiate with 50per cent ACL stakeholder, the Alan Edward Higgs Charity, who the club would no longer deal with

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Am I reading that correctly - have the Higgs done something to upset him to the point they would no longer deal with them? Haven't they just come to an agreement with the Higgs over the academy?

James Smith said:

I think the Brentford flats that they want to build are coming under some flack for spoiling the views from Kew Gardens. Will try and find a link.

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Brentford have only just had their stadium development approved 6th December (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25249046) and have reduced the height of their tower blocks. Interestingly a conflict of interest caused three on the planning committee to quit (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/planning-chiefs-quit-over-brentford-stadium-8982078.html). So Brentford are going to build theirs in up to three years.

RegTheDonk said:

Am I reading that correctly - have the Higgs done something to upset him to the point they would no longer deal with them? Haven't they just come to an agreement with the Higgs over the academy?

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Different thing I think, trustees are different or something like that.

Aren't the ultimate "owners" the same? Certainly PWKH gave the Higgs response to the academy deal (not saying he's an owner)