League One = 4-4-2 (3 Viewers)

KersleyDigs · Aug 27, 2012

This league is not very complicated and anyone that plays any thing besides 4-4-2 at this level is a bit of a pretentious twat IMO.

We should get in a respected manager that can motivate/discipline the squad and we'll do well.

With the quality in our squad our tactical changes shouldn't be much more than, going 4-3-3 to nick a winning goal or going 4-5-1 to hold on in the last 10 mins. The new man might make a change or two on 65-70 mins, if the midfield needs freshning up?!!!!

This is all very simple stuff, but really is about all we need in this league.

KersleyDigs · Aug 27, 2012

ps - if we loan in a winger and striker we could win the league!

CCFC_Charlie · Aug 27, 2012

How would you play a 4-4-2 formation with the players we have got?

@richh87 · Aug 27, 2012

The League is not very complicated? Bit disrespectful.

Teams don't all play 4-4-2 outside the Premier League - that's a myth. The key is to pick the right formation for the players at your disposal.

Mucca Mad Boys · Aug 27, 2012

@richh87 said:
The League is not very complicated? Bit disrespectful.

Teams don't all play 4-4-2 outside the Premier League - that's a myth. The key is to pick the right formation for the players at your disposal.

Which I believe it's the diamond, hope the new manager keeps it and has better luck with it!

TheHellion · Aug 27, 2012

It's clear that the diamond doesn't work. It leaves us too exposed at the back, and affords the opponents too much width in midfield. The only problem is, we have no pace to play a wide formation, something that has been a problem for us for a good few seasons now. I must agree that a huge part of fixing our problems is that we certainly need someone who can recognise when he needs to make a sub, rather than react to something that has happened already. We need someone there who can recognise warning signs, and change things accordingly. In short, I'd say we need a proactive manager rather than a reactive one.

KersleyDigs · Aug 27, 2012

To be honest, I don't see it as disrespectful.

With quality intelligent players, 4-4-2 becomes about a billion other tweaked formations with shouts from the touchline!

Wingers push on = 4-2-4
Striker sit in = 4-5-1

etc

I saw about 10-12 games in the season Saints got promoted and nothing they did was revolutionary!

They played 4-4-2, 11 men v 11 men, and because they had more quality in their team they won more often than not. Not because they played a particular style ie; on the deck, or route one. They were just better!!!

I guess I'm saying that you can over complicate things and I think our last manager was probably guilty of that.

Mucca Mad Boys · Aug 27, 2012

TheHellion said:
It's clear that the diamond doesn't work. It leaves us too exposed at the back, and affords the opponents too much width in midfield. The only problem is, we have no pace to play a wide formation, something that has been a problem for us for a good few seasons now. I must agree that a huge part of fixing our problems is that we certainly need someone who can recognise when he needs to make a sub, rather than react to something that has happened already. We need someone there who can recognise warning signs, and change things accordingly. In short, I'd say we need a proactive manager rather than a reactive one.

I think the problem is more to do with the manager than system IMO.

You look 1st half v Bury, we dominated, they were lucky to be 2-0 down... Just as said, AT was too reactive, maybe lacks motivational skills.

if you're a bad manager it doesn't what formation you play, you'll still perform badly, the diamond is a victim of the regime as it is easy to blame it.

SBS · Aug 27, 2012

Stop the new manager search, looks like we've got the perfect tactician here...

cornoccfc · Aug 27, 2012

@richh87 said:
The League is not very complicated? Bit disrespectful.

Teams don't all play 4-4-2 outside the Premier League - that's a myth. The key is to pick the right formation for the players at your disposal.

Hugely disrespectful, too many fans thinking league 1 is a cakewalk.

stupot07 · Aug 27, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
I think the problem is more to do with the manager than system IMO.

You look 1st half v Bury, we dominated, they were lucky to be 2-0 down... Just as said, AT was too reactive, maybe lacks motivational skills.

if you're a bad manager it doesn't what formation you play, you'll still perform badly, the diamond is a victim of the regime as it is easy to blame it.

Bury we're playing 442 when we were mullering them first half, they actually changed to the diamond to match us second half man on man/11 v 11.

percy · Aug 27, 2012

this persistance with the diamond is getting laughable now. it cant carry on. did anyone go to games last season, it works for a short time then gets easily countered because in my opinion our players aint good enough to play it effectively.

Mucca Mad Boys · Aug 27, 2012

stupot07 said:
Bury we're playing 442 when we were mullering them first half, they actually changed to the diamond to match us second half man on man/11 v 11.

Meaning what? I'm pro diamond.

KersleyDigs · Aug 27, 2012

It's not disrespectful, it just a fact...

Players at this level aren't intelligent enough to play these complicated systems, and having two banks of four leaves a team a lot less exposed in defence.

A managers ideas can only match up to his players abilities and if you do the basics well in this league with a strong squad you will get promoted.

By the basics i mean: wingers run at fullbacks and get crosses in, centre midfielders win the battle in the middle of the park, strikers put a couple of chances away each game and the defence stay solid and push the fullbacks on where possible.

All this diamond/4-2-3-1 bollox is really WAY above where we currently are. There simply aren't the players at this level to play this way effectively.

We need some width and some grit and we'll do well!

craigSKYBLUE · Aug 27, 2012

Its not disrespectful.managed correctly we should go up and..4-4-2 will stop us conceding stupid goals.I'm positive of that

Mucca Mad Boys · Aug 27, 2012

KersleyDigs said:
It's not disrespectful, it just a fact......

No it isn't a fact, it's your opinion.

@richh87 · Aug 27, 2012

percy said:
this persistance with the diamond is getting laughable now. it cant carry on. did anyone go to games last season, it works for a short time then gets easily countered because in my opinion our players aint good enough to play it effectively.

Being a good tactician is about changing things at the right time. It's clear that the diamond absolutely battered Bury first half - but second half didn't protect us enough.

Maybe a Manager with more tactical knowledge would have moved us to 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 and said "come on then, try to break us down".

Stevec189 · Aug 27, 2012

Spot on Rich. I though Bury were 4 2 4. / 4 3 3 second half depending if they were losing or drawing the game. Thinking players in this league do not have the ability to play different systems is nieve at best and totally disrespectful. We do not have the players to play 442 with wide players only to play in a narrow formation. This team lacks pace which is something I hope any new management team will address. PUSB

percy · Aug 27, 2012

@richh87 said:
Being a good tactician is about changing things at the right time. It's clear that the diamond absolutely battered Bury first half - but second half didn't protect us enough.

Maybe a Manager with more tactical knowledge would have moved us to 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 and said "come on then, try to break us down".

i agree. its the persistance to keep it that has lead to us leaking goals for fun and surrendering leads. need to revert to a more solid and stable formation.

percy · Aug 27, 2012

Stevec189 said:
Spot on Rich. I though Bury were 4 2 4. / 4 3 3 second half depending if they were losing or drawing the game. Thinking players in this league do not have the ability to play different systems is nieve at best and totally disrespectful. We do not have the players to play 442 with wide players only to play in a narrow formation. This team lacks pace which is something I hope any new management team will address. PUSB

yes but you dont neccesarily need fast wingers to play it you can use overlapping fullbacks. clarke when fit is pacey and hussey generally delivers a decent ball.

KersleyDigs · Aug 27, 2012

What formation have the majority of teams used that have finished top 6 in this league in the last ten years?

Yes, teams can play the diamond etc, but is it ever effective?

Our diamond was badly exposed by teams who attacked us down the flanks, a simple thing but undid us time and time again!

Martin180 · Aug 27, 2012

What a crock the OP is ,we havent the players to play 4-4-2 that is patently clear

And also the point about changes is only true if there are good enough or match changing players on the bench .You dont see Fergie or Mancini looking at the clock and making changes

Martin180 · Aug 27, 2012

percy said:
yes but you dont neccesarily need fast wingers to play it you can use overlapping fullbacks. clarke when fit is pacey and hussey generally delivers a decent ball.

The diamond is made for our fullbacks , i think all they lack is the confidence to push on properly at the moment

KersleyDigs · Aug 27, 2012

My whole statement that this league "isn't complicated" is based on the fact (supported by many teams that have been promoted) that if you play a simple 4-4-2 with a decent motivator at the helm (who can make basic simple changes when needed) and a quality squad, promotion should be realistic.

We have a quality squad, we just need to find that manager that can get the players firing and not bombard them with systems and cloud things!

There is no need to over complicate systems and ideologies...

percy · Aug 27, 2012

Martin180 said:
The diamond is made for our fullbacks , i think all they lack is the confidence to push on properly at the moment

yeah i know going forward its great for them. its when we aint got the ball thats the problem

pusbccfc · Aug 27, 2012

We should play

5

Murphy

Clarke-Cameron-Malaga-Wood-Hussey

3

Jennings
Baker/Fleck Barton

2

Cody-Elliott

That way you have of what little pace we have in Clarke/Hussey always bombing on but with that having 5 at the back leak little goals.

The midfield would see Jennings holding and playing the balls on.
When on the attack we'll have 4 attacking in midfield with Jennings dropping.

This way we'll pack out the midfield and have width.

Martin180 · Aug 27, 2012

pusbccfc said:
We should play

5

Murphy

Clarke-Cameron-Malaga-Wood-Hussey

3

Jennings
Baker/Fleck Barton

2

Cody-Elliott

That way you have of what little pace we have in Clarke/Hussey always bombing on but with that having 5 at the back leak little goals.

The midfield would see Jennings holding and playing the balls on.
When on the attack we'll have 4 attacking in midfield with Jennings dropping.

This way we'll pack out the midfield and have width.

Not a bad shout , think Malaga could make a decent sweeper cause he is a decent passer of the ball .Maybe try Kilbane left side though

Mucca Mad Boys · Aug 28, 2012

percy said:
yeah i know going forward its great for them. its when we aint got the ball thats the problem

I disagree, Barton and Kilbane have been protecting their full back when we're defending.

Assuming we have a 4-4-2 with Baker + Macca on the wings, that would leave the full backs exposed anyway because they're SH!T defenders, also, 4-4-2 restricts a passing game going forwar, so we lose attacking potential to aid defence, although it wouldn't help anyway! :thinking about::facepalm:

What ever happend to "attack is the best form of defence"?

Nick · Aug 28, 2012

Barton was blowing the last 2 games so didnt do much protecting of brown

covcity4life · Aug 28, 2012

shit thread from someone ignorant of the many tactics out there

Astute · Aug 28, 2012

KersleyDigs said:
It's not disrespectful, it just a fact...

Players at this level aren't intelligent enough to play these complicated systems, and having two banks of four leaves a team a lot less exposed in

What exams do players pass before they can play higher than Div3?

You lean something new every day. I just have. All players in the prem must be very intelligent

covcity4life · Aug 28, 2012

joey Barton and Rooney prove the theory!

KersleyDigs · Aug 28, 2012

I think you'll find you guys are talking about academia as opposed to intelligence, a common assumption. Top Premiership players have very intelligent football brains, hence why they play at the highest level!

Also, I am wholeheartedly aware of the many different tactics and formations and I demonstrate this in my argument, so to call me ignorant is clearly incorrect. imp:

Mucca Mad Boys · Aug 28, 2012

KersleyDigs said:
What formation have the majority of teams used that have finished top 6 in this league in the last ten years?

Yes, teams can play the diamond etc, but is it ever effective?

Our diamond was badly exposed by teams who attacked us down the flanks, a simple thing but undid us time and time again!

I think Italy, AC Milan, Santos, Norwich would have something to say about that!

Diamond is proven.

KersleyDigs · Aug 28, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
I think Italy, AC Milan, Santos, Norwich would have something to say about that!

Diamond is proven.

One team from League One then, compared to how many that have gone up playing 4-4-2?

League One = 4-4-2 (3 Viewers)

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