oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Having listened to it I thought it was an accomplished performance by TF & SW. They got their message across and painted the picture they wanted to. I dont think that they were particularly pressured by the questioning and i thought that anything potentially tricky was pretty much deflected or past over
It left me with more questions to be honest. Will say from the start that I am by profession trained to maintain a healthy scepticism so i am not sure I share the feeling of some that we are more more comfortable with what we now know. I would also say that some of the things apparently been done etc I have been advocating for years
so ok the questions .....
-Why are the proper docs not filed at Company house for share issue and the mortgage. It takes 5 minutes to complete the forms and would actually have been good PR
- why is the charge SBS&L had over CCFC assets still registered
- how is ARVO able to replace that SBS&L charge if it is still registered
- Debt free again ? Really wish they wouldnt use this because there are still loans there they just happen to be due to the owners and at least some of them are secured on the assets.
- Is the Ryton ground still included on the ARVO charge if so it is still effectively mortgaged given TF said previously that ARVO had funded the club. The charge lists land on the south east side of Leamington Rd Rugby (land Reg no. WK234099)
- When TF was speaking about finances was he actually talking about CCFC, CCFC H group, SBS&L Group or some mixture of all three as it suited
- which company got the benefit of the conversion of 35m Euros? I assume would be £1 for 1 share because CCFC and CCFC H didnt have enough authourised share capital to issue that many shares (100 and 100,000 respectively). So which balance sheet got cleaned up by it ?
- Didnt TF say at one point that you would be mad to put money in as shares but then said SISU converted 35m Euros to shares ?
- Why use Euros ? surely he knows the stirling equivalent ? how much in £'s?
- the 9m at the start I believe included creditors that were due to previous owners were these actually paid ? Also I would guess that HMRC were paid on a payment plan ..... so was it all paid out day 1 ? The 9m also forms part of the 42m apparently owed to SISU it isnt a new or seperate amount
- so per TF the debt to SISU is 42m (but surely he then said 35m Euros of it was gone not payable? does that mean it is or isnt 42m ?) in 2011 accounts it was £29.6m owed by SBS&L has increased by £12.4m in 15 months. That is to cover the losses - losses in 2012 were £5m and so far this year £750k what was the other money for ? TF said £10m over last 10 months what on?
- Are we talking losses at £250k pm or cash flow requirement ? there is a difference
- Profits on sales of players are recognised at the time they occur as far as they are certain (ie do not include payments for number of appearances) Keogh and Bigi have left since 01/06/12 (ie this financial year) yet we are still making £250k loss pm?
- Is the loss calculated using the budget figure or real figures. Does it include rent at full value or at league 1 average?
- No loan interest has been paid to SISU entities ...... but in TF's words it is being "rolled up". That means that the amount due to SISU is increasing because of it but it just hasnt been paid over. That interest if rolled up is a charge against profits and increases the loss. It also means that the loan is growing without SISU actually putting money in.
- To me a plan is just a plan ...... be it one year or three, TF did not say that SISU had guaranteed funds for 3 years ...... he said they had agreed a plan for three years... plans as we know can change
- if wage budget is £4.2 million does that mean that income is expected to be £6.4m (ie wages 65% of this figure) If so what element of the turnover is player sales ?
- pleased to see they are cleaning up the balance sheet.... but what do they actually mean by that ? Do they mean SISU taken over all debts, do they mean more shares issued, do they mean the inter company account owed by CCFC has been discounted by the same amount as SBS&L's creditors were when SISU took over?
- so Joy is hands on but doesnt influence the players yet felt the need to meet with them? was that a pep talk or was it to nail down the bonuses (btw i agree bonuses needed to be sorted out)?
- what is the average League 1 rent ? What is basis of calculation? Surely our rent distorts the average ? What is an average League 1 ground ? How close to average are we in terms of ground?
- So TF does get paid then but 70% is at risk if financial outcome not on target ?
- Already decided that they are going to have match day income ? What about the associated match day costs ? Already decided that rent will be to League 1 average ? But negotiations are on going ?
i could go on but i have to earn a living
Like I said an accomplished performance by TF and SW ........ leaves many questions when you listen to it again though........
Not trying to be negative in fact i agree with some of things in principle but the devil is in what we dont have told to us.....
It left me with more questions to be honest. Will say from the start that I am by profession trained to maintain a healthy scepticism so i am not sure I share the feeling of some that we are more more comfortable with what we now know. I would also say that some of the things apparently been done etc I have been advocating for years
so ok the questions .....
-Why are the proper docs not filed at Company house for share issue and the mortgage. It takes 5 minutes to complete the forms and would actually have been good PR
- why is the charge SBS&L had over CCFC assets still registered
- how is ARVO able to replace that SBS&L charge if it is still registered
- Debt free again ? Really wish they wouldnt use this because there are still loans there they just happen to be due to the owners and at least some of them are secured on the assets.
- Is the Ryton ground still included on the ARVO charge if so it is still effectively mortgaged given TF said previously that ARVO had funded the club. The charge lists land on the south east side of Leamington Rd Rugby (land Reg no. WK234099)
- When TF was speaking about finances was he actually talking about CCFC, CCFC H group, SBS&L Group or some mixture of all three as it suited
- which company got the benefit of the conversion of 35m Euros? I assume would be £1 for 1 share because CCFC and CCFC H didnt have enough authourised share capital to issue that many shares (100 and 100,000 respectively). So which balance sheet got cleaned up by it ?
- Didnt TF say at one point that you would be mad to put money in as shares but then said SISU converted 35m Euros to shares ?
- Why use Euros ? surely he knows the stirling equivalent ? how much in £'s?
- the 9m at the start I believe included creditors that were due to previous owners were these actually paid ? Also I would guess that HMRC were paid on a payment plan ..... so was it all paid out day 1 ? The 9m also forms part of the 42m apparently owed to SISU it isnt a new or seperate amount
- so per TF the debt to SISU is 42m (but surely he then said 35m Euros of it was gone not payable? does that mean it is or isnt 42m ?) in 2011 accounts it was £29.6m owed by SBS&L has increased by £12.4m in 15 months. That is to cover the losses - losses in 2012 were £5m and so far this year £750k what was the other money for ? TF said £10m over last 10 months what on?
- Are we talking losses at £250k pm or cash flow requirement ? there is a difference
- Profits on sales of players are recognised at the time they occur as far as they are certain (ie do not include payments for number of appearances) Keogh and Bigi have left since 01/06/12 (ie this financial year) yet we are still making £250k loss pm?
- Is the loss calculated using the budget figure or real figures. Does it include rent at full value or at league 1 average?
- No loan interest has been paid to SISU entities ...... but in TF's words it is being "rolled up". That means that the amount due to SISU is increasing because of it but it just hasnt been paid over. That interest if rolled up is a charge against profits and increases the loss. It also means that the loan is growing without SISU actually putting money in.
- To me a plan is just a plan ...... be it one year or three, TF did not say that SISU had guaranteed funds for 3 years ...... he said they had agreed a plan for three years... plans as we know can change
- if wage budget is £4.2 million does that mean that income is expected to be £6.4m (ie wages 65% of this figure) If so what element of the turnover is player sales ?
- pleased to see they are cleaning up the balance sheet.... but what do they actually mean by that ? Do they mean SISU taken over all debts, do they mean more shares issued, do they mean the inter company account owed by CCFC has been discounted by the same amount as SBS&L's creditors were when SISU took over?
- so Joy is hands on but doesnt influence the players yet felt the need to meet with them? was that a pep talk or was it to nail down the bonuses (btw i agree bonuses needed to be sorted out)?
- what is the average League 1 rent ? What is basis of calculation? Surely our rent distorts the average ? What is an average League 1 ground ? How close to average are we in terms of ground?
- So TF does get paid then but 70% is at risk if financial outcome not on target ?
- Already decided that they are going to have match day income ? What about the associated match day costs ? Already decided that rent will be to League 1 average ? But negotiations are on going ?
i could go on but i have to earn a living
Like I said an accomplished performance by TF and SW ........ leaves many questions when you listen to it again though........
Not trying to be negative in fact i agree with some of things in principle but the devil is in what we dont have told to us.....
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