Labovitch calls for independent ACL valuation (1 Viewer)

Danceswithhorses · May 15, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
What

What about Chris West's PR campaign? The one he mentioned in his email. It's indirect financial distress through reputational damage + enforcing a ridiculous rent deal.

Indirect is a nice vague word isn't it.
'Reputational damage'
That assumes SISU have a decent reputation to damage, in the first place-some might disagree.
'Enforcing a ridiculous rent deal'
The deal that hadn't bother SISU for many years.
As they hadn't done any due diligence to begin (big mistake and not very professional), they took on and therefore accepted the deal.

Can you classify ACL trying to collect the legally owed Ricoh rent, as 'distressing SISU', when it was backed up by 2 court cases, and by their non-action (for many years) above, had seemingly been accepted by SISU ??

duffer · May 15, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
What

What about Chris West's PR campaign? The one he mentioned in his email. It's indirect financial distress through reputational damage + enforcing a ridiculous rent deal.

The only talk of Chris West and PR relating to SISU in the Higgs trial was back in Jan 2013, as far as I can find any mention of it. Obviously this was after SISU caused ACL direct financial damage by withholding payment of a lawful debt.

If you don't pay your debts, and you end up in court, it's fair to say that you'll suffer reputational damage. That's not really the fault of the creditor though, is it. It's also hard to see how they caused indirect financial distress, given the above.

Regardless, the question was, in what way are ACL trying to distress SISU now?

I still don't think that's been answered.

martcov · May 15, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Was that the email where he said if the Yorkshire bank refuse to accept the offer to buy out the mortgage they could expect a full media campaign?

Yes, you are right. They threatened to damage YB's reputation not SISU's. SISU are doing just fine on their own thank you.

Did not Joy threaten to tie the council in expensive and time consuming litigation? Is she just doing that to carry out her threat and show what she can do?

More to the point, it seems that not only are the council tied up in expensive and time consuming litigation, but SISU are and it could be that they carry the costs in the end.

Joy has lost the plot somewhere. She is behaving like an aggrieved wife at a divorce case trying to bring out all the dirt on her errant husband.

Chris West's proposed PR campaign is no comparison to M.L.'s spin against the council.

Time for SISU to take a long hard look at where they are going. The JR is slipping away, the stadium is nothing more than a mirage and if they don't strengthen the team, CCFC could be relegated to League 2.

Is it so hard to call it a day and start afresh? Tell ML to shut up, drop the JR and offer to meet up with Ann Lucas to find a way out for all parties.

Jack Griffin · May 15, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
What

What about Chris West's PR campaign? The one he mentioned in his email. It's indirect financial distress through reputational damage + enforcing a ridiculous rent deal.

Where is this campaign you say exists? All we've seen & heard is Mark Labovich saying this, that & the other..

martcov · May 15, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
Where is this campaign you say exists? All we've seen & heard is Mark Labovich saying this, that & the other..

Yes, quite right. It was a suggestion that never took place. ML's on the other hand is in full swing against ACL, Higgs and CCC.

fernandopartridge · May 15, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
Where is this campaign you say exists? All we've seen & heard is Mark Labovich saying this, that & the other..

Wood. Trees.

skybluetony176 · May 15, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
What

What about Chris West's PR campaign? The one he mentioned in his email. It's indirect financial distress through reputational damage + enforcing a ridiculous rent deal.

Tell me do you have an opinion on the direct financial distress caused by the ridiculous Northampton move.

I only ask as this is clearly doing more damage to the club and not just financially than the "enforced" rent at the ricoh and despite the Northampton situation being current and the Ricoh situation being past tense you don't seem that worried about it.

Astute · May 15, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Wood. Trees.

Wood. Trees. ACL distressing SISU. ML being truthful.

Maybe you might see through the trees soon.

duffer · May 15, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Wood. Trees.

I've got one you and ML might like. Smoke. Fire.

In other words, there isn't actually any evidence of a Chris West PR campaign against SISU? And certainly not a current one.

Or indeed of the somewhat risible idea that ACL could in some way distress SISU from thirty-five miles away and without any form of financial contract or contact.

olderskyblue · May 15, 2014

The fact that ACL/CCC are not letting SISU have the Ricoh for fook all is clearly distressing Joy..!!

FP is right....yet again...

Grendel · May 15, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Wood. Trees.

Seriously give up - you cannot reason with these people.

The likes of Duffer and Jack wouldn't last 5 minutes on a real fans forum. They have a slavish obsession for the council and they definately would rather throw 130 years down the toilet than see CCC criticised.

They loath and detest the football club.

Just be grateful you are not like them.

skybluetony176 · May 15, 2014

Grendel said:
Seriously give up - you cannot reason with these people.

The likes of Duffer and Jack wouldn't last 5 minutes on a real fans forum. They have a slavish obsession for the council and they definately would rather throw 130 years down the toilet than see CCC criticised.

They loath and detest the football club.

Just be grateful you are not like them.

Out of interest what's a real fans forum?

Grendel · May 15, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
Out of interest what's a real fans forum?

Pretty much ever other club in the country. Anyone bleating about fair rent to the council would get the answer they deserve.

GMK have few posters but that is more typical of true fans behaviour on a forum.

dongonzalos · May 15, 2014

martcov said:
Yes, you are right. They threatened to damage YB's reputation not SISU's. SISU are doing just fine on their own thank you.

Did not Joy threaten to tie the council in expensive and time consuming litigation? Is she just doing that to carry out her threat and show what she can do?

More to the point, it seems that not only are the council tied up in expensive and time consuming litigation, but SISU are and it could be that they carry the costs in the end.

Joy has lost the plot somewhere. She is behaving like an aggrieved wife at a divorce case trying to bring out all the dirt on her errant husband.

Chris West's proposed PR campaign is no comparison to M.L.'s spin against the council.

Time for SISU to take a long hard look at where they are going. The JR is slipping away, the stadium is nothing more than a mirage and if they don't strengthen the team, CCFC could be relegated to League 2.

Is it so hard to call it a day and start afresh? Tell ML to shut up, drop the JR and offer to meet up with Ann Lucas to find a way out for all parties.

To be honest at that time the banks were and probably are still hated for causing a global financial crisis.
If a council and charity approached them about a deal to keep their business alive that is actually a good deal for the bank as well and they said no. Would you be stunned to see a media campaign follow.....

dongonzalos · May 15, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Was that the email where he said if the Yorkshire bank refuse to accept the offer to buy out the mortgage they could expect a full media campaign?

My point was it was not aimed at SISU so not a valid point

dongonzalos · May 15, 2014

Grendel said:
Pretty much ever other club in the country. Anyone bleating about fair rent to the council would get the answer they deserve.

GMK have few posters but that is more typical of true fans behaviour on a forum.

Really weird that that does not happen here must be something different about this club to all the others?

What could that be?

Must be the fans of course....

skybluetony176 · May 15, 2014

Grendel said:
Pretty much ever other club in the country. Anyoneting about fair rent to the council would get the answer they deserve.

GMK have few posters but that is more typical of true fans behaviour on a forum.

Have you made your weekly GMK post yet. You can't last 5 minutes on GMK yourself hence all the time you spend on here. Using your own logic and example you're no better than anyone else on here.

martcov · May 15, 2014

Grendel said:
Seriously give up - you cannot reason with these people.

The likes of Duffer and Jack wouldn't last 5 minutes on a real fans forum. They have a slavish obsession for the council and they definately would rather throw 130 years down the toilet than see CCC criticised.

They loath and detest the football club.

Just be grateful you are not like them.

Even if they loathe the football club, which I doubt, it is SISU that are guiding CCFC to be flushed down the toilet. No-one else. They make the decisions and must carry the can. I hope you made that clear at your meeting with ML.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · May 15, 2014

Grendel said:
Seriously give up - you cannot reason with these people.

The likes of Duffer and Jack wouldn't last 5 minutes on a real fans forum. They have a slavish obsession for the council and they definately would rather throw 130 years down the toilet than see CCC criticised.

They loath and detest the football club.

Just be grateful you are not like them.

Have for once to agree with you I loathe and detest the football club.

fernandopartridge · May 15, 2014

duffer said:
I've got one you and ML might like. Smoke. Fire.

In other words, there isn't actually any evidence of a Chris West PR campaign against SISU? And certainly not a current one.

Or indeed of the somewhat risible idea that ACL could in some way distress SISU from thirty-five miles away and without any form of financial contract or contact.

Apart from an email read out in court. Please find evidence that SISU on getting hold of the Ricoh would charge the club a crippling rent while you're at it.

Grendel · May 15, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Apart from an email read out in court. Please find evidence that SISU on getting hold of the Ricoh would charge the club a crippling rent while you're at it.

Silence will be golden.

Astute · May 15, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Apart from an email read out in court. Please find evidence that SISU on getting hold of the Ricoh would charge the club a crippling rent while you're at it.

Charging the club a crippling 1.8m interest for a debt they have run up maybe? Yet yourself and a few others keep on mentioning 1.2m rent was too much whilst ignoring interest that was 50% more.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · May 15, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Apart from an email read out in court. Please find evidence that SISU on getting hold of the Ricoh would charge the club a crippling rent while you're at it.

I think you will find the evidence in the same place as you will find evidence that they wouldn't.

skybluetony176 · May 15, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Apart from an email read out in court. Please find evidence that SISU on getting hold of the Ricoh would charge the club a crippling rent while you're at it.

I keep saying this but why are they unable/unwilling to tell us what the arrangements would be.

It's just too simple. They tell us what the arrangements would be and we all go "thank you sisu, you are our saviors. Boy do I feel stupid for chanting sisu out. Someone pass me a stick I'm up for some council bashing, its revolution time".

But yet, as grendull almost put it "silence is golden"

It's not unreasonable to suspect (especially given their track record of doing what's best for our club) that we're not going to like what they're going to propose.

One statement could undo all the failed spin from ML and TF but yet nothing. I ask you, why?

martcov · May 15, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Apart from an email read out in court. Please find evidence that SISU on getting hold of the Ricoh would charge the club a crippling rent while you're at it.

The Email was referring to something that didn't happen in the end. So, naughty but irrelevant.
SISU are a Hedge fund or maybe now a private equity fund ( more long term ). They want a return on investment - as oposed e.g. to the charity who want to improve conditions in Coventry( Job creation, regeneration etc. ). It is more likely that they charge a rent in line with their considerable Investment. High.

cloughie · May 15, 2014

Astute said:
Charging the club a crippling 1.8m interest for a debt they have run up maybe? Yet yourself and a few others keep on mentioning 1.2m rent was too much whilst ignoring interest that was 50% more.

correct it is the only reason they are still around they could not get that return on the true debt owed by any other means than extremely high payday loan rates, that they charge the club.

The silence is far from golden some just don't want to hear the truth

Deleted member 5849 · May 15, 2014

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
Completely agree with that point.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to see that happening until the JR is out of the way.

Perhaps afterwards?????????

Let's hope so eh!

duffer · May 16, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
Apart from an email read out in court. Please find evidence that SISU on getting hold of the Ricoh would charge the club a crippling rent while you're at it.

Which one mate, specifically? The only email read in court from Chris West regarding PR and SISU related to Jan 2013 as I've said. Which one were you talking about, where's your evidence.

I haven't mentioned SISU and a likely rent - we're obviously going be on the end of pretty high interest charges though, through all of the debt.

But regardless, it's the West thing I'm after, and the evidence of ACL somehow distressing SISU now. You've come up with no proof of that whatever, presumably because there isn't any. It's an opinion of yours and Rob's based on precisely nothing.

duffer · May 16, 2014

martcov said:
Even if they loathe the football club, which I doubt, it is SISU that are guiding CCFC to be flushed down the toilet. No-one else. They make the decisions and must carry the can. I hope you made that clear at your meeting with ML.

Grendel's the slavish obsessive here, which is why I ignore him. Everything for him is about the council. I'm guessing he went to the toilet once and they didn't come round to flush it for him. Or he's just a troll - because as soon as he gets challenged for evidence he throws out a couple of insults, a couple of strange questions, and then runs away. Watch and see.

As for GMK, I know a few people on there in real life. They're top lads, and we've had a few pints together in the past. If Grendel is as much of an arse in person as is he is on this forum then I doubt they'd have much time for him either.

Houdi · May 16, 2014

What I find strange in all the continual arguments that go back and forth,is that even most of the people who 'take' the SISU side of events,seemingly don't even believe the,'we will build a new ground then'.
That being the case why would you entrust people who in your own view have lied through their teeth for well over a year,to all the supporters.the Football League and anybody else who would care to listen,with ownership of the Ricoh. By apparently actually employing and paying for specialist companies to help them maybe unwittingly in this grand deception, surely is evidence enough of what truly contemptible people they are.
If you believe SISU should own the Ricoh, or if they can't,then you truly believe they will build a new stadium,then ok at least that position is 'reasonable' and consistent. What I find baffling is why people give succour to people who they believe are knowingly lying to supporters including those who are going to Sixfields.

fernandopartridge · May 16, 2014

Houdi said:
What I find strange in all the continual arguments that go back and forth,is that even most of the people who 'take' the SISU side of events,seemingly don't even believe the,'we will build a new ground then'.
That being the case why would you entrust people who in your own view have lied through their teeth for well over a year,to all the supporters.the Football League and anybody else who would care to listen,with ownership of the Ricoh. By apparently actually employing and paying for specialist companies to help them maybe unwittingly in this grand deception, surely is evidence enough of what truly contemptible people they are.
If you believe SISU should own the Ricoh, or if they can't,then you truly believe they will build a new stadium,then ok at least that position is 'reasonable' and consistent. What I find baffling is why people give succour to people who they believe are knowingly lying to supporters including those who are going to Sixfields.

In fairness there is inconsistency in SISU's statements (which is consistent). JS has stated plan A is the freehold and the new stadium is plan B. I'm of the opinion that the statement about Plan A might be an extreme negotiating position. One of the things SISU don't like is the terms of the leasehold agreement. The extreme position might start a dialogue with CCC about it.

fernandopartridge · May 16, 2014

duffer said:
Which one mate, specifically? The only email read in court from Chris West regarding PR and SISU related to Jan 2013 as I've said. Which one were you talking about, where's your evidence.

I haven't mentioned SISU and a likely rent - we're obviously going be on the end of pretty high interest charges though, through all of the debt.

But regardless, it's the West thing I'm after, and the evidence of ACL somehow distressing SISU now. You've come up with no proof of that whatever, presumably because there isn't any. It's an opinion of yours and Rob's based on precisely nothing.

I wasn't saying ACL are distressing SISU now tbh.

Do you disagree that CCC wanted SISU out?

sky blue john · May 16, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
I wasn't saying ACL are distressing SISU now tbh.

Do you disagree that CCC wanted SISU out?

If you go by this forum 99.9% say they don't support Sisu. So I presume they would want Sisu out ??
So bearing this in mind then most of Coventry would want Sisu out including CCC, ACL & Higgs !!!

sky blue john · May 16, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
In fairness there is inconsistency in SISU's statements (which is consistent). JS has stated plan A is the freehold and the new stadium is plan B. I'm of the opinion that the statement about Plan A might be an extreme negotiating position. One of the things SISU don't like is the terms of the leasehold agreement. The extreme position might start a dialogue with CCC about it.

Lol !!!!
I think inconsistency in Sisu's statements is an understatement !!!

Houdi · May 16, 2014

fernandopartridge said:
In fairness there is inconsistency in SISU's statements (which is consistent). JS has stated plan A is the freehold and the new stadium is plan B. I'm of the opinion that the statement about Plan A might be an extreme negotiating position. One of the things SISU don't like is the terms of the leasehold agreement. The extreme position might start a dialogue with CCC about it.

With respect that is not what Tim Fisher who is supposed to be the CEO of the club, stated over and over again at the forums. He was crystal clear with his, 'we have moved on, we have left and we won't be going back'. A message he repeated on local radio.
At the shareholder's meeting a property specialist was introduced to reinforce the new stadium is happening message. There have been several stadium forum meetings held to try and reinforce the,'we are building a new stadium'.
If you don't believe the new stadium scenario, and believe it to be utter nonsense, then you are effectively saying that the current owners are committing a massive deception on the fans,willingly and knowingly.

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