A promise is not really worth anything if it is underwritten by Otium. If sisu/ARVO walks away the club could go into liquidation (again). I hope th FL have made ARVOR or sisu sign on the dotted lines.
As I understand it they have promised the FL to pay a bond of £1M if they fail to make sufficient progress towards returning to the Coventry Area.. but no money has been handed over.
I'll be stunned if the FL ever call that in.. but we must wait till the end of the 3yr period (or maybe the 5yr period) to see.
My frustration is that neither the council nor Sisu are going to be starved out any time soon. Focussing on ifs, buts and maybes doesn't move us forward. If Higgs/Council want to keep ACL running I'm willing to bet they could, ditto Sisu and CCFC. What can be done now, with what we know?
I wouldn't put a bet on that!
The decision to keep the club afloat is made by just one person (it seems): Joy Seppala.
How many will need to agree to keep ACL afloat?
Think about that for a second.
I think sisu/ARVO are too rich to go bust anytime soon.
I could Rephrase your question: Will sisu/ARVO walk away from the club before CCC walks away from ACL?
you say that (and you may well be right) but wouldn't she have to sell the idea of keeping the club afloat to her hoards off investors 1st? There may be more people involved in the decision making for the club than any off us could imagine, because sisu are under no obligation to inform the FL who is actually investing in or club we wll probably never know. its been suggested that its certain US based pension funds, if it is how many is there and how many people are involved in the decision aking within these funds?
I wouldn't put a bet on that!
The decision to keep the club afloat is made by just one person (it seems): Joy Seppala.
How many will need to agree to keep ACL afloat?
Think about that for a second.
Has it been mentioned but say Sisu lost the JR. Will opposing sides be awarded damages along with Sisu meeting costs ?
They may be rich now, but every year they get poorer. I don't think that was the plan of the investors. At what stage to they haul Joy before them and ask what's going on. Or do they they just get statements every year showing the interest they have earned - but apparently not received? The surprise comes later.......
That is where a council way of running things supports the argument it can be kept running, within the parameters they can operate in, anyway.
Councils don't make decisions quickly and, when they do, they like long lead-in times, so even if they did want to give up ACL, conceivably they set this time three years in the future.
That's the nature of 'secret' or 'undisclosed' - we don't really know who the investors are. For all we know it could be just JS and a number of straw men.
In court the sisu QC said ARVO have invested more than £50m. That implies that ARVO is also the initial 5 investment funds. I don't really think that is 100% true, but hey! It was said in court.
I could speculate that ARVO is JS. And that ARVO have bought the initial 5 investment funds at a huge discount. I can't prove it, but it makes sense to me.
if i understand you correctly your saying its possible that sisu purchased ccfc with 5 investments from various institutions/people. when the investment failed the investors cut and run by selling their investments to arvo at a much discounted price from their initial investment?
that would make sense also but like you say, we'll never proove it.
Hmm - that's the general perception, but they acted quite quickly when they secured the ACL loan.
Next time won't be so quick though, as more councillors will ask questions and demand detailed information.
That actually makes a lot of sense.
Yes, skybluetony has his bright moments!
You're going along with the Sisu assertion then? I'm not sure, outside a couple of small clusters of fans, that the appetite from the electorate, and therefore the council, has changed much TBH. Brian Patton seemed to be the only person against it, and he was against it from the start. Is there any evidence that the council would take a different decision today?
But I hadn't considered the possibility that Joy has bought out the debt for far less than the headline figure. Meaning she wouldn't need such a high return. Good news because maybe someone will come in and make it worth her while, bad news because she can spend longer in Northampton to get a smaller reward than she'd otherwise need.
Yes, skybluetony has his bright moments!
How much information did each of the councillors actually have? (I know it was raised by sisu QC, but I know I have written a post some time ago to the same tune).
No councillor can be an expert or posses all relevant knowledge to cast a personal vote in all cases. They usually receive an extract of information and then follow the party line. It's not criminal and it's not saying councillors are incapable of making up their own minds.
But after the JR I would put a bet on most councillors giving anything to do with funding ACL extra consideration.
Would the council take a different decision today? I don't know. That's for our resident star reporters to find out, isn't it?
And here is where we come back to my post this morning that upset quite a few - the unencumbered freehold. If ACL goes bust - let's say starved out of business by sisu - then Byng (or A N Other) might actually be willing to offer more for the club (if he can secure the long lease at the Ricoh).
I agree with your overall point, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to imply that this issue wouldn't have popped up on people's radar earlier and that the JR made people look closer. It's been pretty much the biggest story in Coventry since it broke.
And there you have the support for my reasoning. Any councillor will demand information and think twice before casting his vote.
I don't doubt that's the plan, just not convinced it's a winner as of yet. I think what upsets people about the idea (well certainly in my case) is the idea that we are going to keep waiting around for ACL to go bust, I'm not sure I can take that TBH.
Ok - then let's stretch it a bit further. Say JS is happy to sell at £15-18m. What would happen if Byng approaches ACL/Higgs/CCC and ask for a price for all the shares in ACL?
Could he continue the 'road map' albeit adjusted a bit to include CCC's half?
And more importantly - would it make any financial sense to Byng?
The one bright spark here might be that if Byng can bring more development to Coventry through his rail links, the Council will be more open to him owning the freehold.
You're right - sisu did not present any hard evidence the club was forced out. It was all the usual circumstantial allegations. There were no evidence the other way though - nothing nailed it that the club was not forced out. And I actually don't think it make much difference to the fans going or staying away from Northampton.
But I don't think it has any bearings with the FL. sisu/Otium have an agreement with the FL and I guess the only thing at present that can upset that agreement is how they interpret the payment of the debt from the administration. Other than that I can't see FL getting involved.
Yes, skybluetony has his bright moments!
SO....Any actual news or developments from this JR bullshit.....
No..thought not. Massive load of old cock as was always my expectation.
...I'm just glad I didn't waste hours & hours of my life following this crap.
So as things stand, the status quo remains: ie: Sisu are cunts, Acl are cunts, ccc are cunts & the fl are cunts. Well I never. who knew.
As for the case itself... I will be very surprised if Sisu "win"....
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