Sick Boy
Super Moderator
'And when he was bought in to help Thorn in the transfer window and we signed less players than our relegation peers. That was a masterpiece too.'
No. And where did I state, or remotely insinuate we should? :facepalm:
The scout / manager identifies the players. The director of football (or whetever title applies this week) agrees the terms of the deal
Let me put it this way. I have departmental managers at work. They make decisions, and I back them or not as the case may be. If their judgment is wrong, they take the flak.
But the ultimate responsibility? It's mine
To answer the Thorn question, I don't know. But for you to draw the concluson that he has to move directly to a bigger club, lest he's the failure you always asserted is a farce. But I'm not surprised, alas, by you thinking so. After Livingston sacked Paul Lambert, he went to Wycombe and then Colchester before finding success at Norwich, didn't he?
'And when he was bought in to help Thorn in the transfer window and we signed less players than our relegation peers. That was a masterpiece too.'
So you believe a football manager has no real responsibility themselves for judging and signing players?
Why should he waste his time with a smaller club though, after all, he is clearly has the potential to be one of the greatest managers in Europe, if not the world! Comparing him to Paul Lambert is a little unfair, he clearly is a cut above and Lambert could only dream of possessing his knowledge and insight into the game.
Well, what was he bought in for then in December ahead of the January window? I presumed we had a budget - established by his mate Fisher. That's not Pompey-style profligacy, is it?
Why therefore did we only sign two unknown players directly from other club's youth teams - Nimely and Norwood; whilst our contemporaries signed 8 or 9 players?
Was Waggott bought here only to sell Jutkiewitz? If so, shameful backing for a club in a perilous situation by Fisher?
Or was be introduced to secure players? In which case he failed. Can't have it both ways old boy
Well, what was he bought in for then in December ahead of the January window? I presumed we had a budget - established by his mate Fisher. That's not Pompey-style profligacy, is it?
Why therefore did we only sign two unknown players directly from other club's youth teams - Nimely and Norwood; whilst our contemporaries signed 8 or 9 players?
Was Waggott bought here only to sell Jutkiewitz? If so, shameful backing for a club in a perilous situation by Fisher?
Or was be introduced to secure players? In which case he failed. Can't have it both ways old boy
Let me put it this way. I have departmental managers at work. They make decisions, and I back them or not as the case may be. If their judgment is wrong, they take the flak.
But the ultimate responsibility? It's mine
Fisher worked within the budget constraints given to him by SISU-the cash was not forthcoming, but it seems you would rather we have gone down the Appleton route of 'buy now, pay later'. We couldn't afford to compete for a majority of the players our peers were also after so we missed out on them-you yourself have stated 'We were one of the third least funded teams in the division so that is where we should have finished anyway' so many times in the past.
What so we don't sign enough players and it is SISU / Waggot / Fisher's fault and when we over sign it is their fault too?
Read. The. Words. I'm stating he has little or no influence over the terms of the contract.
If Malaga's got a three-year deal, that's more Waggott that Thorn
No way! Not according to Grenduffy. And sacking the manager 3 games into the season? The was much better than after last season.
And when he was bought in to help Thorn in the transfer window and we signed less players than our relegation peers. That was a masterpiece too. Saved the training ground getting cluttered up with untidy players allowing Thorn the clarity to concentrate all his efforts on the untried kids. And how did the plump oaf repay him?
Waggott is a king among men. Remember that or you'll get told off!
You know wha they say about sarcasm.
Thanks for proving it so succinctly
The board decided to give Thorn the chance to build a squad as he insisted he could make things work if he were given more financial backing. As far as was possible, they did this, but the hangover from last season didn't budge and it was clear that Thorn hadn't addressed the root problems-Fisher and Waggott take the responsibility for not sacking the man immediately following last season. Putting such trust in an incompetent manager was their biggest mistake.
Simply following your example MMM.
No. What I'm stating is that if our known budget only stretched to two unknown kids; why draft in - at cost - an expensively-waged man to oversee their arrival?
The same Malaga who was supposedly being chased by a PL club? Perhaps Thorn suggested a long term deal? After all, signing a player chased by a PL club is a real coup for a L1 club, isn't it?
So, if their confidence in his abilities was so gossamer thin as to sack him after three games; why endorse his signings with a 3-year deal?
The two don't stack up
Thorn would ahve had no say in the length of the deal. Do you remember the interview he gave when Jutkiewitz was sold to 'Boro?
Because without this 'expensively waged man', chances are we wouldn't have managed even the few loanees we did; given that nobody else remained at the club capable of conducting transfer negotiations.
It was a mistake on Waggott/Fisher's part, as I have already referred to (and did quite a bit yesterday). It was an error in judgement to let Thorn keep the reins.
You really believe that? Or do you think this 'expensively waged man' was mainly introduced to get the best possible price for Jutkiewitz; with the secondary responsibility of bringing in players - at which he failed?
You really believe that? Or do you think this 'expensively waged man' was mainly introduced to get the best possible price for Jutkiewitz; with the secondary responsibility of bringing in players - at which he failed?
Stop vilifying people, it's mean not very nice.
It was a major error of judgement not brining in Robins when we first interested back when Boothroyd was sacked.
Imagine if Robins goes on to be a success and MMM is forced to concede some praise to Fisher/Waggott for the appointment. I won't hold my breath.
He didn't do badly getting us a good price for Juke, and did well in securing a good deal for Bigi (both departures were inevitable sooner or later). You point to his failure in backing Thorn in the second half of last season, but disregard how heavily he backed him in the summer-you can't have it both ways, surely?
Imagine if Robins goes on to be a success and MMM is forced to concede some praise to Fisher/Waggott for the appointment. I won't hold my breath.
I don't disagree on the 'Boro deal. Decent price. But comparison with our relegation peers - who fared much better with regards reinforcement during he run-in - shows he didn't do well. Or that he didn't have the funds. In which case his remit was aimed more at departures than arrivals. Which makes the description of his arrival as being to 'help Andy Thorn' disingenuous, doesn't it? He either failed to prioduce the arrivals, or the budget wasn't there.
They latterly admitted 'mistakes' which gave rise to a barrage of signings over the summer. In that context, yes I can have it 'both ways' as they themselves with this admission acknowledged they had done wrong and changed policy? N'est-ce pas?
No, don't label me with that. I have confidence and hope in Robins.
I do think though, that if the appointment was to be made it should have been done so over the summer. Our current league position is something for which this decision is attributable more than the performance of any of the three managers used this term.
I dislike those who anoint Waggott's feet with nothing-but praise; when for me, he's yet to produce much of that he was introduced to bring to the table
Then the point remains quite simple-if the appointment made by Fisher/Waggott is a success, then they will have succeeded in their remit for the football club and will be praiseworthy. In which case I expect you to eat humble pie.
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