Kelly for Right Back (1 Viewer)

Nick · Oct 22, 2017

At 0-0 against a team with 10 men who had just taken off a striker to try and hold on, why do we still persist to have the only player who has seemingly opened up a defence with a pass at Right Back?

Pretty sure as they only have 1 striker up front that Willis / McDonald can look after, with Doyle who was also stood back there with them for extra cover.

Their play with the arrow below is their striker, the furthest man forward. Out of shot we still have McDonald and Willis.

Why is Kelly not going into that massive gap and letting one of our defenders push up there? We would still have Doyle and the other defender as cover.

It is all well and good letting Grimmer attack, but the whole idea with an overlap is that it gives us an extra man going forward. Having him go forward while Doyle and Kelly drop back doesn't really work.

stupot07 · Oct 22, 2017

Kelly played right back most of the game.

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clint van damme · Oct 22, 2017

Esoterica really started something with his red circle!
In all seriousness, that picture could have been taken at almost any time during the game, I know he hasn't shown much this season but I would have liked to have seen Stevenson bought on and occupying that space.

Nick · Oct 22, 2017

It doesn't make any sense, with them having 1 up front and not threatening why can't Willis push out a bit as McDonald and Doyle are in the middle on the player.

The screenshot shows as it was most of the time during our "pressure" where they had an extra man at the back and just mopped everything up.

Unsuprisingly that move went back to Willis, then to McDonald as when it went to Grimmer that player had then marked Kelly.

We didn't concede though and held onto the 0-0 draw at home against ten men, so it seems like a result for MR.

rupert_bear · Oct 22, 2017

Why ? Because Mark Robins is negative in his team selections and tactics, you won’t change that and with 15 minutes to go at 0-0 philosophy is one point is better than none

ceetee · Oct 22, 2017

clint van damme said:
Esoterica really started something with his red circle!
In all seriousness, that picture could have been taken at almost any time during the game, I know he hasn't shown much this season but I would have liked to have seen Stevenson bought on and occupying that space.

I said that on another thread and got shot down

Esoterica · Oct 22, 2017

The tweaks in position that Robins referred to yesterday was starting the full backs higher but it actually made the problem worse. The full backs pushed up, Willis and McDonald naturally got pulled out wider to fill up the full back space and Doyle and Kelly got sucked even deeper - into centre back positions at times. We ended up played 4-2-4 for a lot of that game yesterday except the '2' were on the wings!! The hole in the middle was bigger than at any time this season.

This was one of my favourites screenshots from yesterday. Grimmer stood on the wing, Vincenti (who had come on for one of our strikers) 10 yards deeper and Kelly deeper again.

Nick · Oct 22, 2017

Having full backs further up means they will be going down the wing and putting in crosses. With nobody to attack them in the middle.

It's like when he brings biamou off to then start pumping the ball up field every time.

Esoterica · Oct 22, 2017

Nick said:
Having full backs further up means they will be going down the wing and putting in crosses. With nobody to attack them in the middle.

And that leads me onto to some of the ridiculous stick McNulty is getting. Yes, he air kicked the only chance we created from open play and should have scored but just look at the 2 screenshots - what on earth is he supposed to do there? No room to run in behind centrally, he's not going to hold the ball up like Biamou or Nazon can and if he spins off down the line then the ball needs putting on a sixpence for him plus he's run into the space that Grimmer and Vincenti are supposed to be in and we'll have nothing in the middle.
If Jones is now injured he has absolutely got to go 3-5-2
-----------------------Burge----------------------
-----------Willis, McDonald, Davies--------
Grimmer------------------------------Haynes
------------------Kelly----Doyle-----------------
----------------------Vincenti---------------------
------------Biamou--------McNulty-----------

* Use Grimmer and Haynes as proper wingbacks,
* An extra CB means Kelly and Doyle don't need to be so deep to cover.
* Get those crosses into Biamou and Vincenti arriving late.
* The hole is filled by Vincenti

So much balance in that team I'm excited just looking at it on paper!

Skybluefaz · Oct 22, 2017

Esoterica said:
And that leads me onto to some of the ridiculous stick McNulty is getting. Yes, he air kicked the only chance we created from open play and should have scored but just look at the 2 screenshots - what on earth is he supposed to do there? No room to run in behind centrally, he's not going to hold the ball up like Biamou or Nazon can and if he spins off down the line then the ball needs putting on a sixpence for him plus he's run into the space that Grimmer and Vincenti are supposed to be in and we'll have nothing in the middle.
If Jones is now injured he has absolutely got to go 3-5-2
-----------------------Burge----------------------
-----------Willis, McDonald, Davies--------
Grimmer------------------------------Haynes
------------------Kelly----Doyle-----------------
----------------------Vincenti---------------------
------------Biamou--------McNulty-----------

* Use Grimmer and Haynes as proper wingbacks,
* An extra CB means Kelly and Doyle don't need to be so deep to cover.
* Get those crosses into Biamou and Vincenti arriving late.
* The hole is filled by Vincenti

So much balance in that team I'm excited just looking at it on paper!

McNulty is more than happy to stay tied up and not receive the ball which is my biggest problem with him. He hides.

steve82 · Oct 22, 2017

Esoterica said:
And that leads me onto to some of the ridiculous stick McNulty is getting. Yes, he air kicked the only chance we created from open play and should have scored but just look at the 2 screenshots - what on earth is he supposed to do there? No room to run in behind centrally, he's not going to hold the ball up like Biamou or Nazon can and if he spins off down the line then the ball needs putting on a sixpence for him plus he's run into the space that Grimmer and Vincenti are supposed to be in and we'll have nothing in the middle.
If Jones is now injured he has absolutely got to go 3-5-2
-----------------------Burge----------------------
-----------Willis, McDonald, Davies--------
Grimmer------------------------------Haynes
------------------Kelly----Doyle-----------------
----------------------Vincenti---------------------
------------Biamou--------McNulty-----------

* Use Grimmer and Haynes as proper wingbacks,
* An extra CB means Kelly and Doyle don't need to be so deep to cover.
* Get those crosses into Biamou and Vincenti arriving late.
* The hole is filled by Vincenti

So much balance in that team I'm excited just looking at it on paper!

I have to agree on this, a 352/3412 formation

---------------Burge--------------
------Willis--Mcdonald--Davies---
-Grimmer--Doyle--Kelly--Haynes-
--------------Vincenti-------------
---------Biamou--McNulty--------

Davies has to come in to cope with the ariel threat of Luton and still need the pace of Willis. Biamou to provide the outlet with big Pete tho make McNulty in the last chance saloon play off the shoulder of the defender. Haynes and grimmer providing the overlap and width to get dangerous crosses into the box for Biamou to attack.

Nick · Oct 22, 2017

Skybluefaz said:
McNulty is more than happy to stay tied up and not receive the ball which is my biggest problem with him. He hides.

He actually does make runs

Esoterica · Oct 22, 2017

Skybluefaz said:
McNulty is more than happy to stay tied up and not receive the ball which is my biggest problem with him. He hides.

Genuine question - where do you want him to go when the play is all squashed up on the edge of their area as it is in the above 2 screenshots? There's a back 4 with 3 midfielders 6 yards in front of them and the ball is no higher than the centre circle in each picture. We're basically 4 attackers vs 6 defenders each time when the midfield are deep and the space issue is further compounded by Duck and Jones cutting inside whenever they can.
I don't know why Robins recruited the type of striker McNulty is as his 9 and then chooses to play a formation that neuters him.

Skybluefaz · Oct 22, 2017

Esoterica said:
Genuine question - where do you want him to go when the play is all squashed up on the edge of their area as it is in the above 2 screenshots? There's a back 4 with 3 midfielders 6 yards in front of them and the ball is no higher than the centre circle in each picture. We're basically 4 attackers vs 6 defenders each time when the midfield are deep and the space issue is further compounded by Duck and Jones cutting inside whenever they can.
I don't know why Robins recruited the type of striker McNulty is as his 9 and then chooses to play a formation that neuters him.

He could drop back into the space to receive the ball couldn't he?

Skybluefaz · Oct 22, 2017

Nick said:
He actually does make runs

With a lack of conviction and intent. It may well be a confidence thing, it doesn't make things better though. Watch back at how he closes people down. He'll run to close down a player then stop and give the opposition 4-5 yards. It's pointless, and indicates what he's all about at the minute. Do the bare minimum with absolutely no conviction. He's a passenger.

Nick · Oct 22, 2017

I took screenshots the other day, he couldn't have done any more then.

It's like ponti, we can't supply him

Skybluefaz · Oct 22, 2017

Nick said:
I took screenshots the other day, he couldn't have done any more then.

It's like ponti, we can't supply him

He had a chance in the 6 yard box Nick and it went out for a goal kick.

oucho · Oct 22, 2017

Esoterica said:
And that leads me onto to some of the ridiculous stick McNulty is getting. Yes, he air kicked the only chance we created from open play and should have scored but just look at the 2 screenshots - what on earth is he supposed to do there? No room to run in behind centrally, he's not going to hold the ball up like Biamou or Nazon can and if he spins off down the line then the ball needs putting on a sixpence for him plus he's run into the space that Grimmer and Vincenti are supposed to be in and we'll have nothing in the middle.
If Jones is now injured he has absolutely got to go 3-5-2
-----------------------Burge----------------------
-----------Willis, McDonald, Davies--------
Grimmer------------------------------Haynes
------------------Kelly----Doyle-----------------
----------------------Vincenti---------------------
------------Biamou--------McNulty-----------

* Use Grimmer and Haynes as proper wingbacks,
* An extra CB means Kelly and Doyle don't need to be so deep to cover.
* Get those crosses into Biamou and Vincenti arriving late.
* The hole is filled by Vincenti

So much balance in that team I'm excited just looking at it on paper!

Biamou instead of Duck????

Skybluefaz · Oct 22, 2017

oucho said:
Biamou instead of Duck????

Yeah we should change from a back 4 that's served us well, and do this against the league's top scorers and drop a striker who has actually scored goals.

PVA · Oct 22, 2017

Screenshots prove nothing. They are a split second snapshot of a 90 minute match

You could take a screenshot of anything to try and prove an agenda you're trying to push.

clint van damme · Oct 22, 2017

PVA said:
Screenshots prove nothing. They are a split second snapshot of a 90 minute match

You could take a screenshot of anything to try and prove an agenda you're trying to push.

that massive hole in the middle of the park is there for much of the game.
It's not a split second snap shot, it's literally a constant.
I've watched 180 minutes of (turgid) football this week and that big fuck off unoccupied space is the reason behind it.

oucho · Oct 22, 2017

PVA said:
Screenshots prove nothing. They are a split second snapshot of a 90 minute match

You could take a screenshot of anything to try and prove an agenda you're trying to push.

In fairness i do not think he is pushing an agenda, seems to be just making a suggestion based on his own perception of the game and our setup...

Nick · Oct 22, 2017

PVA said:
Screenshots prove nothing. They are a split second snapshot of a 90 minute match

You could take a screenshot of anything to try and prove an agenda you're trying to push.

How's it agenda? Watch the games and make your mind up. It's the same over and over.

Esoterica · Oct 22, 2017

oucho said:
Biamou instead of Duck????

Looks knackered to me since he came back from international duty, doesn't look up, shoots from 20 yards irrespective of how many oppo between him and the goal and doesn't pass when he could because of it. Also gives away many silly fouls which relieves the pressure. I don't think there's any point getting Haynes, Shipley, Kelly and Grimmer crossing balls into the box with Duck there. Don't remember him winning a header all season. We need a plan to score, if it's attacking fullbacks I would start Biamou. If we play football through the middle, I'd start Duck.

oakey · Oct 22, 2017

Not much movement is evident in these screenshots.
:smuggrin::banghead:

PVA · Oct 22, 2017

Nick said:
How's it agenda? Watch the games and make your mind up. It's the same over and over.

Sorry agenda was the wrong word. I just meant that you can post a screenshot of whatever you want to make a point about whatever you want.

The reason Kelly ends up there is that he's covering Grimmer when he gets forward.

covcity4life · Oct 22, 2017

Cant put it all on robins imo. Kelly and majority of our eleven dont want to be brave in terms of making something happen incase they fuck it up. Thus the sideways passes

Im sure robins will work on fixing this mentality

clint van damme · Oct 22, 2017

covcity4life said:
Cant put it all on robins imo. Kelly and majority of our eleven dont want to be brave in terms of making something happen incase they fuck it up. Thus the sideways passes

Im sure robins will work on fixing this mentality

I don't know how to tell you this Tony, but I think I've fallen for another manager.

Esoterica · Oct 22, 2017

PVA said:
Sorry agenda was the wrong word. I just meant that you can post a screenshot of whatever you want to make a point about whatever you want.

The reason Kelly ends up there is that he's covering Grimmer when he gets forward.

Which is exactly right and that's a huge part of our scoring problem. Grimmer gets forward a lot to support Jones, we drop a centre midfielder into right back (many times even if there's no-one to mark) and end up with this big empty circle in the middle of the pitch and no centre midfield supporting the attack. Defenders out number the attackers 6 to 4, Jones gets doubled up on and our one dimensional attack is very easy to defend against. After Jones went off yesterday Grimmer was our biggest attacking threat - he's got a good cross on him but his short passing is quite slow and often inaccurate under pressure. I just find it really odd to shackle arguably our best passer of the ball to allow our right back to be our main attacking threat and get crosses in to short strikers. It just seems so topsy turvy and lacking in a coherent plan going forward.

Esoterica · Oct 22, 2017

covcity4life said:
Cant put it all on robins imo. Kelly and majority of our eleven dont want to be brave in terms of making something happen incase they fuck it up. Thus the sideways passes

Im sure robins will work on fixing this mentality

I just want you to know Tony, it's not you, it's me.

covcity4life · Oct 22, 2017

Look im glad you all bow realise how excellent mowbray was but im not here to say i yold you so

We have a new love story to make with robins. This time you cunts stay loyal instead of leaving for first bald guy you see!

dongonzalos · Oct 22, 2017

steve82 said:
I have to agree on this, a 352/3412 formation

---------------Burge--------------
------Willis--Mcdonald--Davies---
-Grimmer--Doyle--Kelly--Haynes-
--------------Vincenti-------------
---------Biamou--McNulty--------

Davies has to come in to cope with the ariel threat of Luton and still need the pace of Willis. Biamou to provide the outlet with big Pete tho make McNulty in the last chance saloon play off the shoulder of the defender. Haynes and grimmer providing the overlap and width to get dangerous crosses into the box for Biamou to attack.

.....................Burge--------------
------Willis--Mcdonald--Stokes---
-Grimmer--Doyle--Kelly--Haynes-
--------------McNukty-------------
---------Biamou--Ponti--------

McNulty can create or feed off any second balls that Biamou causes.
Ponti to thrive off Biamou’s knock downs and the second ball. Also Ponti to receive Mcnulty through balls.
Also McNulty and Ponti to harasss and defend from the front.
Biamou to feed off the wing backs. McNulty to provide the plan b if the crosses can’t get through.
Stokes would be more comfortable at the left of a back 3 than a wing back.
This is how I would like us to go if we need a goal after 60 mins

Terry Gibson's perm · Oct 23, 2017

Three centre backs would be worse as we will then have seven back instead of the regular six as Kelly isn't fit enough to get into the gap, we need to take more risks at home, I would go four four two with wide men wide to stretch the opposing team

Kelly for Right Back (1 Viewer)

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