kcic campaign - new initiaitve (3 Viewers)

MichaelCCFC · Oct 11, 2013

Just posted at https://www.facebook.com/KeepCovInCovCampaign?hc_location=timeline and mentioned on cwr drivetime

Let’s get on with saving CCFC! Seems to have been a lot of distractions this last couple of weeks so let’s get back on track with the next step in the kcic campaign. We’re all bitterly disappointed the different parties still haven’t agreed to talk to each other and equally disappointed the Football League is taking no action. Earlier this week a couple of us met Bob Ainsworth MP who has been doing a great job using Early Day Motions in Parliament to publicise what’s going on with the City – he’s done one this week about the Administrator, Paul Appleton.

We talked about how we might take things forward and have identified two options. First, you might have heard of Parliamentary Select Committees which do Inquiries – Rupert Murdoch had to appear before one a couple of years ago and had a foam pie thrown at him – and there is one that has looked at football governance and finance. So we’re going to lobby them to do an Inquiry into CCFC as an example of broader problems facing football today. Second, there is a possibility of there being a full Parliamentary debate again using CCFC as an example of broader problems facing football.

What both of these would do is call to account all those responsible for the mess we are in and put pressure on all parties to find a resolution. But it won't just happen by magic. It will need City fans to contact MPs asking them to support these initiatives, encourage fans of other clubs to do the same and we’ll start a petition calling on the Select Committee to undertake the Inquiry we want. We’ll be publicising full details next week but would really urge all City fans to support this approach.

mds · Oct 11, 2013

total 100%

ccfcway · Oct 11, 2013

Can't we use the 14000 or so that the telegraph got?

stupot07 · Oct 11, 2013

Don't you need at least 100k signatories to get a debate in the commons?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors

Mrpipes · Oct 11, 2013

These kinds of processes take years and years , I'm sorry but is that all you guys could come up with ?

blueflint · Oct 11, 2013

Mrpipes said:
These kinds of processes take years and years , I'm sorry but is that all you guys could come up with ?

bah humbug they at least are trying what are you doing

hill83 · Oct 11, 2013

blueflint said:
bah humbug they at least are trying what are you doing

BINGO

What do I win?

mds · Oct 11, 2013

Sisu`s 3-5 yr plan, years and years to organise and petition.

Mrpipes · Oct 11, 2013

blueflint said:
bah humbug they at least are trying what are you doing

I want a new car , if I save all my copper coins then surely i'll afford one sooner or later?

Waste of time?

MichaelCCFC · Oct 11, 2013

stupot07 said:
Don't you need at least 100k signatories to get a debate in the commons?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors

No! Backbench committee has a fairly decent time allocation so it's about persuading MPs it's worth a debate. Same for the Select Committee - it's up to the MPs on it to decide what to pursue

MichaelCCFC · Oct 11, 2013

Mrpipes said:
These kinds of processes take years and years , I'm sorry but is that all you guys could come up with ?

Timescales aren't set in stone and even the thought of independent scrutiny might be an encouragement to agreement being reached. And, as ever, better ideas always very welcome!

Grendel · Oct 11, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
No! Backbench committee has a fairly decent time allocation so it's about persuading MPs it's worth a debate. Same for the Select Committee - it's up to the MPs on it to decide what to pursue

Isn't in really about time the campaign concentrated on the organisations in Coventry that have helped to create this mess?

Standing outside a ground for a sneaky peak or relying on one if the most ridiculed ministers in political history will not accelerate the return.

Focus on the other side. Blockade the Ricoh for all outside events and exhibitions, post negative reviews about its facilities, permenantly have a 24 hour presence making all the the noise you can to disturb hotel residents.

This will be more effective but I suspect the free view and slag of sisu is the primary motivation - not getting the club back in Coventry.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Oct 11, 2013

Grendel said:
Isn't in really about time the campaign concentrated on the organisations in Coventry that have helped to create this mess?

Standing outside a ground for a sneaky peak or relying on one if the most ridiculed ministers in political history will not accelerate the return.

Focus on the other side. Blockade the Ricoh for all outside events and exhibitions, post negative reviews about its facilities, permenantly have a 24 hour presence making all the the noise you can to disturb hotel residents.

This will be more effective but I suspect the free view and slag of sisu is the primary motivation - not getting the club back in Coventry.

Right see you outside the Casino at about seven on Sunday night

MichaelCCFC · Oct 11, 2013

Grendel said:
Isn't in really about time the campaign concentrated on the organisations in Coventry that have helped to create this mess?

Standing outside a ground for a sneaky peak or relying on one if the most ridiculed ministers in political history will not accelerate the return.

Focus on the other side. Blockade the Ricoh for all outside events and exhibitions, post negative reviews about its facilities, permenantly have a 24 hour presence making all the the noise you can to disturb hotel residents.

This will be more effective but I suspect the free view and slag of sisu is the primary motivation - not getting the club back in Coventry.

Grendel, motive behind this is as stated - to bring all parties to account and apply pressure for agreement to be reached. I'll be in The Old Shepherd on Sunday so happy to discuss further over a pint

torchomatic · Oct 11, 2013

What pressure are you applying to ACL and CCC?

MichaelCCFC said:
Grendel, motive behind this is as stated - to bring all parties to account and apply pressure for agreement to be reached. I'll be in The Old Shepherd on Sunday so happy to discuss further over a pint

MichaelCCFC · Oct 11, 2013

Torch, this is doing exactly what it says on the label - seeking to bring ALL PARTIES to account and seeking to put pressure on ALL PARTIES to reach agreement. Full details will be published next week but the petition will not be saying 'please Select Committee look only at acl/sisu [delete dependent upon personal preference] cos it's all their fault and ignore acl/sisu [delete dependent upon personal preference] cos they've done absolutely nothing wrong.' As with Grendel, I'll be in The Old Shepherd on Sunday and happy to buy a pint and discuss further

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Oct 11, 2013

torchomatic said:
What pressure are you applying to ACL and CCC?

Same offer to you Torch as I gave to Grendel see you outside Casino on Sunday about seven,just waiting for his reply I'm sure you'll both be there

ohitsaidwalker king power · Oct 11, 2013

Grendel said:
Isn't in really about time the campaign concentrated on the organisations in Coventry that have helped to create this mess?

Standing outside a ground for a sneaky peak or relying on one if the most ridiculed ministers in political history will not accelerate the return.

Focus on the other side. Blockade the Ricoh for all outside events and exhibitions, post negative reviews about its facilities, permenantly have a 24 hour presence making all the the noise you can to disturb hotel residents.

This will be more effective but I suspect the free view and slag of sisu is the primary motivation - not getting the club back in Coventry.

Hi Grendel- lets just tackle this issue then. Logically?

I hear your frustration- I have read many times your keeness to redress the balance in terms of equal 'protests' towards ACL/CCC in equal measure to that apparently applied to SISU/OTIUM and yet the masses of us don't quite see it that way. This isn't my opinion alone but the clear view of the masses. How do I know? Well its a little like Polling day isnt it? 10,000 voters at the ballot box- 9,000 vote against the Government- 1,000 vote with the Government.. and so the majority- like it or not don't share your view that protesting in equal measure will have the desired effect, and the logic there is undeniable isn't it?-because 9,000 see the primary(but not only) protagonist as our owners and hold the same culpable(in the main) for the situation we all are paying a very heavy price for.

If as you advocate "pressure" is applied to ACL/CCC how do you see it panning out... maybe the masses view along the lines of denying SISU/OTIUM cashflow and thus driving them out is flawed-there are no guarantees I recognise that-and it is I admit perhaps the most obvious of campaigns (I'll fall short of calling it NOPM). However isn't there a danger that in distressing ACL/CCC in a similar manner i.e NOPM- ACL/CCC that effectively the proverbial stadium foundations will de undermined, the roof collapse and thus effectively making ourselves permanently homeless with not even a glimmer of hope of a return as our home is no more?

I think the one thing we both agree on though (and it hasn't been that often!); is that unless this is rationalised and brought to a conclusion before the beginning of next season we really might be facing extinction.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Oct 11, 2013

Grendel Torchomatic come on you wanted some pressure put on CCL and CCC I'm offering you a chance here to put pressure on them surely you both should be delighted. Surely its not that you can't be bothered or you're leaving it to somebody else :thinking about:

Grappa · Oct 11, 2013

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
Hi Grendel- lets just tackle this issue then. Logically?

I hear your frustration- I have read many times your keeness to redress the balance in terms of equal 'protests' towards ACL/CCC in equal measure to that apparently applied to SISU/OTIUM and yet the masses of us don't quite see it that way. This isn't my opinion alone but the clear view of the masses. How do I know? Well its a little like Polling day isnt it? 10,000 voters at the ballot box- 9,000 vote against the Government- 1,000 vote with the Government.. and so the majority- like it or not don't share your view that protesting in equal measure will have the desired effect, and the logic there is undeniable isn't it?-because 9,000 see the primary(but not only) protagonist as our owners and hold the same culpable(in the main) for the situation we all are paying a very heavy price for.

If as you advocate "pressure" is applied to ACL/CCC how do you see it panning out... maybe the masses view along the lines of denying SISU/OTIUM cashflow and thus driving them out is flawed-there are no guarantees I recognise that-and it is I admit perhaps the most obvious of campaigns (I'll fall short of calling it NOPM). However isn't there a danger that in distressing ACL/CCC in a similar manner i.e NOPM- ACL/CCC that effectively the proverbial stadium foundations will de undermined, the roof collapse and thus effectively making ourselves permanently homeless with not even a glimmer of hope of a return as our home is no more?

I think the one thing we both agree on though (and it hasn't been that often!); is that unless this is rationalised and brought to a conclusion before the beginning of next season we really might be facing extinction.

How do you work it out that the 30 or so people on the hill represent 'the masses'? If there's 1500 in the ground and let's say 100 (and I've never seen anything like 100 there, but let's be generous) on the hill, that's about 8% of the total people making the journey to Northampton.

You can't just assume that the 9000 that don't go agree totally with your 'it's Sisu's fault' perspective. I'm sure some of them do, I'm sure that some of them apportion a good deal of the blame to both parties, but I guarantee you that an awful lot just can't be arsed to make the trek to Northampton and don't really give a fuck who's fault it is.

If we returned to the Ricoh next week I bet at least 7k would turn up, and that would be with Sisu still at the helm. Surely it would only be the 1500 who are bothering to turn up now if they were all so fervently 'Sisu-out' as you would like to believe?

Are you really arguing that we can't call ACL/CCC to account in case they close the stadium? Applying the same logic then surely we can't challenge Sisu in case they liquidate the club. Ridiculous.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Oct 11, 2013

Grappa said:
How do you work it out that the 30 or so people on the hill represent 'the masses'? If there's 1500 in the ground and let's say 100 (and I've never seen anything like 100 there, but let's be generous) on the hill, that's about 8% of the total people making the journey to Northampton.

You can't just assume that the 9000 that don't go agree totally with your 'it's Sisu's fault' perspective. I'm sure some of them do, I'm sure that some of them apportion a good deal of the blame to both parties, but I guarantee you that an awful lot just can't be arsed to make the trek to Northampton and don't really give a fuck who's fault it is.

If we returned to the Ricoh next week I bet at least 7k would turn up, and that would be with Sisu still at the helm. Surely it would only be the 1500 who are bothering to turn up now if they were all so fervently 'Sisu-out' as you would like to believe?

Are you really arguing that we can't call ACL/CCC to account in case they close the stadium? Applying the same logic then surely we can't challenge Sisu in case they liquidate the club. Ridiculous.

The people on the hill have never claimed to be representatives of the masses, I certainly dont I represent myself, and you've never seen anything like a hundred on the hill? You also think that even if we go back to the Ricoh that in three months we have lost three thousand fans? Wonder what that figure will be in three to five years?

georgehudson · Oct 12, 2013

just an estimate / guess,
CCFC back @ the ricoh under sisu 8,000 -10,000,
CCFC back @ the ricoh under new ownership, 15,000 +
so what does TF / JS reckon ?

ohitsaidwalker king power · Oct 12, 2013

Grappa said:
How do you work it out that the 30 or so people on the hill represent 'the masses'? If there's 1500 in the ground and let's say 100 (and I've never seen anything like 100 there, but let's be generous) on the hill, that's about 8% of the total people making the journey to Northampton.

You can't just assume that the 9000 that don't go agree totally with your 'it's Sisu's fault' perspective. I'm sure some of them do, I'm sure that some of them apportion a good deal of the blame to both parties, but I guarantee you that an awful lot just can't be arsed to make the trek to Northampton and don't really give a fuck who's fault it is.

If we returned to the Ricoh next week I bet at least 7k would turn up, and that would be with Sisu still at the helm. Surely it would only be the 1500 who are bothering to turn up now if they were all so fervently 'Sisu-out' as you would like to believe?

Are you really arguing that we can't call ACL/CCC to account in case they close the stadium? Applying the same logic then surely we can't challenge Sisu in case they liquidate the club. Ridiculous.

Grappa- no graphs tonight- took me an age last time--
Respectfully you assume that my "vote" scenario is one penned against SISU per-se in your conclusion. Your statement that many "just cant be arsed" to travel to Northampton is also an assumption isnt it?

My primary protest wasn't initially at SISU per-se; as I have stated before, SISU's argument around shared revenue streams, the rent being too high is one I shared.
Of course as a club we need revenue other than ticket sales-I was always happy to pay a few pence more for a pint at Highfield road, or a buy a pie at HT- I bought into the fact that money went to the football club- it was my club- I contributed to its revenue/income and happy to do so, and of course I agree that the rent was too high- £1.2m in Div 1- ridiculous( to use your term) however SISU's refusal to pay rent full stop- was not the correct strategic choice, it cannot be the responsible thing to do can it?- however aggrieved that the club might feel, such conduct cannot be condusive to harmonious relations it was always going to end in tears wasn't it?
Surely we all agree on that dont we?

Irrespective the proverbial straw that broke this camels back- that changed me from a moderate to the harder anti SISU line, was the day they took CCFC out of the city of Coventry, I'm afraid they totally lost my confidence and my faith- it is unforgiveable.
Taking the club out of Coventry is totally unneccessary- I am yet to hear any business argument for so doing-even on a temporary basis, even if SISU plans for a 'stadium' ever do materialise? Can you convince me that Northampton is the sensible option even short term? Do you believe that the move to Northampton is the right way forward even short term?

I also think if we do ever return to the Ricoh the attendance figures(of those presently voting 'no' for whatever reason) will be greater than 7,000 you speculate on- but doesn't that substantiate my previous post- the 'vote' isnt neccesarily at SISU per-se as you assumed was my meaning/is my position, but its the fact SISU took Coventry City Football from its City and are now holding it to ransom for the keys to the Ricoh?

As for my ACL/CCC NOPM notion- no it wasnt an argument I was presenting as my position- more an hypothesis I was exploring- it was one I was quite careful to make a question of more than a positive statement of beliefs held.

Edit- My original post did not reference the 'hill' protestors and didn't form the basis of any rational I presented- I am not sure how you formed the opinion that I did?

Good night all.

shmmeee · Oct 12, 2013

Grendel said:
Isn't in really about time the campaign concentrated on the organisations in Coventry that have helped to create this mess?

Standing outside a ground for a sneaky peak or relying on one if the most ridiculed ministers in political history will not accelerate the return.

Focus on the other side. Blockade the Ricoh for all outside events and exhibitions, post negative reviews about its facilities, permenantly have a 24 hour presence making all the the noise you can to disturb hotel residents.

This will be more effective but I suspect the free view and slag of sisu is the primary motivation - not getting the club back in Coventry.

Depends on your beliefs I guess. If all you want is Sisu to own the Ricoh that's the right way, I think the problem would be gathering enough people who share that view.

For most its as simple as Sisu own the club therefore Sisu decide where we play.

shmmeee · Oct 12, 2013

Grappa said:
How do you work it out that the 30 or so people on the hill represent 'the masses'? If there's 1500 in the ground and let's say 100 (and I've never seen anything like 100 there, but let's be generous) on the hill, that's about 8% of the total people making the journey to Northampton.

You can't just assume that the 9000 that don't go agree totally with your 'it's Sisu's fault' perspective. I'm sure some of them do, I'm sure that some of them apportion a good deal of the blame to both parties, but I guarantee you that an awful lot just can't be arsed to make the trek to Northampton and don't really give a fuck who's fault it is.

If we returned to the Ricoh next week I bet at least 7k would turn up, and that would be with Sisu still at the helm. Surely it would only be the 1500 who are bothering to turn up now if they were all so fervently 'Sisu-out' as you would like to believe?

Are you really arguing that we can't call ACL/CCC to account in case they close the stadium? Applying the same logic then surely we can't challenge Sisu in case they liquidate the club. Ridiculous.

To be fair every single City fan I have spoken to blames Sisu and that includes several who go to Sixfields.

But that's not the point, lovely straw man that it is you've created, the only people who do see it as black and white are ones like yourself. Most see blame all over the place but understand the buck stops with Sisu.

All impirical evidence suggests the majority of fans lay the majority of blame with the owners. Maybe it's all wrong. But it's more likely you're out of step with popular opinion.

letsallsingtogether · Oct 12, 2013

I`ll be there so that makes 2 of us but you won't get a reply from the other 2 or is it really one.
Both go on about how it is all ACL fault but have as yet done nothing but sit at home so lets do it for them. I stood outside the council house 2 Fridays ago after a similar offer not one other person turned up should put up or shut up come on lads you are calling for this what is your answer we are waiting........

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Grendel Torchomatic wcome on you wanted some pressure put on CCL and CCC I'm offering you a chance here to put pressure on them surely you both should be delighted. Surely its not that you can't be bothered or you're leaving it to somebody else :thinking about:

mds · Oct 12, 2013

Im not convinced by NOPM, but am all for a thorough investigation into all parties, and the parts that were played getting us into the mess we are in. Thats going to take time we`ll see.

If we were back at the Ricoh playing good football im pretty sure most people would look past the current owners and any off field problems. Its the mindset of football supporters, their club are doing well they will go and watch them regardless, the hardcore protestors will be the minority, they would stll protest, how many can honestly say they wouldnt go and watch?

Wishfull thinking.....Last third of this season were at the Ricoh in the playoffs looking good, we would get 20k + every game, we have the fanbase, most probably are pissed at SISU but not enough to stop them paying to watch City play. Even mid table we would get 10-15k, there are just too many football supporters who look past the politics and off field crap to watch their team.

If SISU were to back down and bring us home Monday, how many NOPM, hardcore SISU out supporters would refuse to go? It would be an ever decreasing minority.

letsallsingtogether · Oct 12, 2013

but as usual people read the bits they want to.
I believe they both have a part in this but ACL's is only a small percentage IMO, but only one party can bring home CCFC therefore I demonstrate against them. If people want to start demonstrating against sisu then I will back them 100% just don't expect them to give up the Ricoh for nothing unless it is a new owner.

torchomatic · Oct 12, 2013

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Same offer to you Torch as I gave to Grendel see you outside Casino on Sunday about seven,just waiting for his reply I'm sure you'll both be there

Whats happening at seven on Sunday then?

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2 now Free

bigfatronssba · Oct 12, 2013

Im confused. What are we supposed to be protesting against acl about?

The club had an agreement to play at the Ricoh for £1.3m a year (expensive yes, no one denies that), but the club then takes a course of action that sees it a further £2m a year worse off, and takes our club away from us.

Now forgive me if im wrong, but the thing were supposed to be protesting about here is the club playing in Northampton? That action was taken purely by sisu, and it is to the detriment off ccfc finances.

Sisu could be £2m a year better off in an instant if they come back to Coventry even under the original agreement. Get them to do that and I will happily join anyone in putting pressure on acl for a lower rent.

But for now, the actual move to Northampton has nothing to do with acl.

MichaelCCFC · Oct 12, 2013

Hearing that Sky are running the Independent Inquiry/petition story. Anyone seen it?

Grendel · Oct 12, 2013

bigfatronssba said:
Im confused. What are we supposed to be protesting against acl about?

The club had an agreement to play at the Ricoh for £1.3m a year (expensive yes, no one denies that), but the club then takes a course of action that sees it a further £2m a year worse off, and takes our club away from us.

Now forgive me if im wrong, but the thing were supposed to be protesting about here is the club playing in Northampton? That action was taken purely by sisu, and it is to the detriment off ccfc finances.

Sisu could be £2m a year better off in an instant if they come back to Coventry even under the original agreement. Get them to do that and I will happily join anyone in putting pressure on acl for a lower rent.

But for now, the actual move to Northampton has nothing to do with acl.

That's not the point. As you say sisu don't care about Coventry. They will never ever change their views.one would hope putting extreme pressure on an organisation that relies on the local public would be affected by such actions.

It's not a blame game it's if you want to see the club back or not. Sisu will ignore all protests.

blueflint · Oct 12, 2013

Grendel said:
That's not the point. As you say sisu don't care about Coventry. They will never ever change their views.one would hope putting extreme pressure on an organisation that relies on the local public would be affected by such actions.

It's not a blame game it's if you want to see the club back or not. Sisu will ignore all protests.

so whats the point in protesting to ACL they cant make SISU change their mind either SISU will still do what SISU want not whats best for cov

standupforcity · Oct 12, 2013

Mrpipes said:
These kinds of processes take years and years , I'm sorry but is that all you guys could come up with ?

'You guys'?......Aren't you part of all this then? If you don't like this approach what are your bright ideas???

blueflint · Oct 12, 2013

MichaelCCFC said:
Hearing that Sky are running the Independent Inquiry/petition story. Anyone seen it?

no but i hope its true we may never get to the truth in this sorry state of affairs

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