Judicial Review date confirmation (1 Viewer)

[Danceswithhorses]

Apologies if this has been posted already...10 June 2014

http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/june_date_for_judical_review_824480/index.shtml

 

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[Ashdown1]

Thanks for that, I'd not seen it. It can't come soon enough but I'm sure if the scum bags lose they'll only re appeal !?

 

[sky blue john]

Will it be pay per view and on which channel ?

 

[ccfcway]

just received the latest odds

CCC win 2/1
SISU Win 2/1
Appeal 1/10

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Should thnk whoever loses will appeal if they can.

 

[Moff]

just received the latest odds

CCC win 2/1
SISU Win 2/1
Appeal 1/10

Lawyers making mega bucks 1/100
Telegraph in reporting the case refer to administration period and use that awful photo of Appleton looking like the most smug smarmy b'stard that ever lived 1/1000000

 

[Kingokings204]

how long is the case? 1 day or 2 weeks?

 

[ccfcway]

how long is the case? 1 day or 2 weeks?

sorry cant resist

3 weeks

 

[skyblueinBaku]

Should thnk whoever loses will appeal if they can.

I'm sure that appeals are more or less guaranteed to happen, NW. Which means we'll be well into next season before there is a definite outcome to the JR procedure. And then there will probably be law suits issued by the loser against the winner. Depressing, isn't it?

 

[Sbarcher]

how long is the case? 1 day or 2 weeks?

I needs to fit in the Ryanair carry on frame.

 

[ccfcway]

I'm sure that appeals are more or less guaranteed to happen, NW. Which means we'll be well into nexy season before there is a definite outcome to the JR procedure. And then there will probably be law suits issued by the loser against the winner. Depressing, isn't it?

this will go on longer than a David Bell contract

 

[skybluetony176]

this must be what RFC means when he keeps talking about progress behind the scenes.

 

[ccfcway]

Appeals process

For those who do not win their case, there is normally a right of appeal. However, this is based purely on the decision reached in the case.

How to appeal

If you are unhappy about the decision made by the judge in your case, you may be able to appeal against the decision to a judge in a higher court.
There must be proper grounds for making an appeal and there are strict time limits within which to do so.
It is not possible for court staff or other government officials to review a judgment made by the courts. This is because the judiciary are entirely independent and must be free to decide the outcome of cases without fear of interference from Government or its administration.


Magistrate

There are several ways in which you may challenge magistrates' decisions. The most appropriate method will depend upon the type of case and its particular circumstances. Before you lodge an appeal, you are strongly urged to seek legal advice as to the procedure, merit and cost.
Appeals against the decision of the magistrates' court in criminal cases are heard by the Crown Court. The appeal is made to the magistrates' court and the papers sent by the magistrates' court staff to the Crown Court.


Crown and county courts

For Crown and county courts you can appeal both civil and criminal cases, but it would be necessary to seek permission or 'leave' from a judge before an appeal can be made against a conviction in a criminal case.
Applications to appeal, and for leave to appeal against decisions made by the Crown Court are dealt with by the Court of Appeal Criminal Division.
Appeals against the outcome of a hearing in a county court or a High Court are mostly dealt with by the Court of Appeal Civil Division.
Although HMCS court staff will be happy to offer procedural guidance, they are not permitted or trained to give legal advice or discuss whether you can or should appeal. For legal assistance a solicitor should be contacted. Alternatively, you may prefer to contact a Citizen's Advice Bureau or other advice agency, where advice is generally provided free of charge.

 

[ccfcway]

this must be what RFC means when he keeps talking about progress behind the scenes.

wasnt he talking about the new stadium ?

 

[Otis]

Maybe after the hearing and then all the appeals have finally been heard and rejected, the new stadium will be built.

So, a decade or more of appeals then I reckon.

 

[skybluetony176]

wasnt he talking about the new stadium ?

who knows? i dont think he knows? the only thing we know for sure is he wont reviel his source.

 

[shmmeee]

But it's not about a new stadium!

It's Sisu the anti-corruption crew! Desperate to stop evil councils the land over (bar Northampton) support local football clubs, because looking after the community is not their job, giving public assets to private business is!

 

[torchomatic]

You'd better ask SBK.

Will it be pay per view and on which channel ?

 

[Kingokings204]

Does this JR depend on whether we go back to the ricoh? So if ccc win is that it its over or do sisu come back with tails between their legs?

thoughts?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I'd like to think after the JR is sorted things will be back to normal, but I don't know what normal is anymore so the chances of that hapenning are....... well since ccfcway has the odds, why don't you tell us?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Does this JR depend on whether we go back to the ricoh? So if ccc win is that it its over or do sisu come back with tails between their legs?

thoughts?

I don't think it's as clear cut as that, if Sisu win they'll feel there odds are better with regards to getting the Ricoh cheaper I'd imagine, if CCC win I think Sisu will either move on and build Lego land or sell up.

 

[lordsummerisle]

JR happy with verdict from the court.

 

[Kingokings204]

I'd like to think after the JR is sorted things will be back to normal, but I don't know what normal is anymore so the chances of that hapenning are....... well since ccfcway has the odds, why don't you tell us?

I hope there isn't appeals as this will drag for years. We need it sorting one way or the other its just we all hope its ends up back at the ricoh. I personally think it will and im going to stick my neck on the line and say first game of next season is at the ricoh. OMG haha (im being genuine btw)

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I hope there isn't appeals as this will drag for years. We need it sorting one way or the other its just we all hope its ends up back at the ricoh. I personally think it will and im going to stick my neck on the line and say first game of next season is at the ricoh. OMG haha (im being genuine btw)

KOK I'd like to share your optimism and say "Yes I can see us playing at the Ricoh next season" unfortunately the truth is I don't this will probably drag on for another year or so, happy to be wrong

 

[shmmeee]

I think Joy planned for two seasons at Northampton then whatever her end game is. Maybe sell up to an owner who can get an immediate boost by returning, maybe build legoland, maybe liquidate, who knows.

Unless CCC sell the Ricoh (unlikely) then we'll be at Sixfields next year.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I think Joy planned for two seasons at Northampton then whatever her end game is. Maybe sell up to an owner who can get an immediate boost by returning, maybe build legoland, maybe liquidate, who knows.

Unless CCC sell the Ricoh (unlikely) then we'll be at Sixfields next year.

I agree 100%, the question is will Sisu then sue for damages if they win the JR? Fisher said before it's only about getting the truth, but I can't see that.

 

[Kingokings204]

KOK I'd like to share your optimism and say "Yes I can see us playing at the Ricoh next season" unfortunately the truth is I don't this will probably drag on for another year or so, happy to be wrong

Way I see it Robo is Otium are a business like no other and why do they operate? To make money and they would admit to getting the figures seriously wrong as they were expecting decreased income but not this much and their hand will be forced. We have worked out to losing 3 million this year being at sixfields so no business can operate like this and then lose another 3 mil knowing they will. I just don't see it.

I judge everything on face value and this is how it is. If they win JR they have a chance if not then they have to take the 150k rent, either way they win really. I also note the comments of a business man from Coventry the port vale chairman before we played them earlier this year.... He quotes "no business can operate like this and I estimate it at losing 3 mil this year, a business cant run like this. My advice would be that Coventry fans would have to put up with Northampton for this year."

I'm not arguing with him as he knows a lot more than me but we on here all do the figures and they don't add up in any way so whats your thoughts mate?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Way I see it Robo is Otium are a business like no other and why do they operate? To make money and they would admit to getting the figures seriously wrong as they were expecting decreased income but not this much and their hand will be forced. We have worked out to losing 3 million this year being at sixfields so no business can operate like this and then lose another 3 mil knowing they will. I just don't see it.

I judge everything on face value and this is how it is. If they win JR they have a chance if not then they have to take the 150k rent, either way they win really. I also note the comments of a business man from Coventry the port vale chairman before we played them earlier this year.... He quotes "no business can operate like this and I estimate it at losing 3 mil this year, a business cant run like this. My advice would be that Coventry fans would have to put up with Northampton for this year."

I'm not arguing with him as he knows a lot more than me but we on here all do the figures and they don't add up in any way so whats your thoughts mate?

I can see us being at Sixfields for another season while the JR plays out, I am not sure the first review will be the end of it all, obviously while we are playing at Sixfields we will continue to lose money hand over first. I really hope we return to the Ricoh, I genuinely don't want anything else, if it happens before this time next year I will be absolutely shocked.

 

[shmmeee]

I agree 100%, the question is will Sisu then sue for damages if they win the JR? Fisher said before it's only about getting the truth, but I can't see that.

Not sure what damages could be awarded to be honest. Even if you prove that CCC propped up ACL illegally, surely you'd have to prove that the Council did it purely to remove CCFC from the city, which I can't see.

I can accept that there might be some technicality or hidden dodgyness that gives them a win on the legal aspect of the loan. But what evidence is there that CCC wanted the club out of the city? Sisu stopped paying rent and ACL are an independent company who actually offered to keep them. I know the story that Sisu have painted about being "forced out" but I can't see anyone taking that seriously when you consider the evidence of offers on the table. Paying slightly more for a much better stadium in Coventry isn't the same as not having a stadium in Coventry.

Then again, I'm never failed to be let down by what is possible in our legal system, so I wouldn't rule anything out.

 

[duffer]

just received the latest odds

CCC win 2/1
SISU Win 2/1
Appeal 1/10

1/10 is good odds, I'll have a £100 on the appeal please.

Also can I have a tenner on the HT/FT market, I'm going CCC/CCC.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I think everyone expects a clear cut verdict one way or another...... I do not think it will be that easy. There may well be a judgement that leaves the door open for whoever "loses" to take further action. That said there will only be appeals if there are grounds for appeal.

What could happen is litigation against individuals and the separate entities..... as we know it isn't always about having a good case more often it is having the means (££££) to carry it through

Certainly do not see CCFC back at the Ricoh next season ............ I also think as time goes on there will be other events etc at the Ricoh that make it harder to come back because the fixture dates will be being used up on other things

 

[edgy]

Clearly got money to burn witht that second bet duffer.

 

[Kingokings204]

I can see us being at Sixfields for another season while the JR plays out, I am not sure the first review will be the end of it all, obviously while we are playing at Sixfields we will continue to lose money hand over first. I really hope we return to the Ricoh, I genuinely don't want anything else, if it happens before this time next year I will be absolutely shocked.

I see your point mate but another season means another 3 million approx. and what business wants that knowing it could actually make money in Coventry. So so silly. I just cant see it but then it easily could happen. we are all living a nightmare.

 

[duffer]

Not sure what damages could be awarded to be honest. Even if you prove that CCC propped up ACL illegally, surely you'd have to prove that the Council did it purely to remove CCFC from the city, which I can't see.

I can accept that there might be some technicality or hidden dodgyness that gives them a win on the legal aspect of the loan. But what evidence is there that CCC wanted the club out of the city? Sisu stopped paying rent and ACL are an independent company who actually offered to keep them. I know the story that Sisu have painted about being "forced out" but I can't see anyone taking that seriously when you consider the evidence of offers on the table. Paying slightly more for a much better stadium in Coventry isn't the same as not having a stadium in Coventry.

Then again, I'm never failed to be let down by what is possible in our legal system, so I wouldn't rule anything out.

Damages is going to be a bit tricky isn't it.

Let's say the court find against the council. In this case what should have happened is that ACL were obliged to find funding elsewhere (assuming YB withdrew their support). If they could have found funding elsewhere, then it's unlikely that SISU could have purchased ACL, so no damages to pay in that scenario.

If ACL could have not have found funding elsewhere, presumably they would have to have gone into Administration, with the Council as the biggest debtor I presume, on the basis of a 40+ year lease, followed by Higgs. What odds then that SISU would have been the preferred bidder for ACL at this point. Again, difficult to prove damages here, imho.

Is there another scenario in which SISU can claim that the decision of the council to award funding to ACL directly damaged them as a company? ACL's loan was held by YB, I can't see that YB entered into any agreement to sell the loan to SISU if ACL defaulted, but that's the only way I can see SISU directly damaged.

It could be I'm not seeing this clearly, it has been a long day!

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Not sure what damages could be awarded to be honest. Even if you prove that CCC propped up ACL illegally, surely you'd have to prove that the Council did it purely to remove CCFC from the city, which I can't see.

I can accept that there might be some technicality or hidden dodgyness that gives them a win on the legal aspect of the loan. But what evidence is there that CCC wanted the club out of the city? Sisu stopped paying rent and ACL are an independent company who actually offered to keep them. I know the story that Sisu have painted about being "forced out" but I can't see anyone taking that seriously when you consider the evidence of offers on the table. Paying slightly more for a much better stadium in Coventry isn't the same as not having a stadium in Coventry.

Then again, I'm never failed to be let down by what is possible in our legal system, so I wouldn't rule anything out.

I agree with your sentiment, the question I have always pondered regarding the JR is how "Can they prove that CCC were trying to force CCFC out of Coventry?" do they mean literally or financially? The latter would be my choice if I had to guess.

I suppose it all comes down to what the Court feels is right, it'll be intersting, but I wouldn't like to wager on which way it'll go.