skybluesteve76
New Member
Anyone read the Ian Palmer article in tonight's telegraph. He makes a few good points about Joy taking the reins and actually doing a few good deeds!
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Joy seppala has steadied the ship!! (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter skybluesteve76
- Start date
Bennets Afro
Well-Known Member
Biggest load of sisu propaganda I have read in ages.
Does that guy believe it is all down to joy or is he on their payroll
Does that guy believe it is all down to joy or is he on their payroll
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
If Hoffman actually got a group of investors together and if by some miracle they managed to buy the club, people would be lauding them as the most exciting owners ever if they has made that number of signings over the summer and promised to buy a share in the arena.
CJparker
New Member
Well why not, they aren't in it for the love of the club and don't pretend to be.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
It would be the same for whoever was to buy the club though.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Spot on. The start of this season will be seen as a turning point in a few years IMO.
It's taken far too long, but we seem to actually have a competent management team in place. A few decisions may have taken too long to make, but all of them (IMO) were the right ones (Thorn out, Robins in, Ricoh bid, etc.) Whereas before the wrong decisions were being taken consistently (Sitting on the bench, player sales and lack of replacements, etc.).
Got to give credit where it's due. Though it's only been a couple of months and there's a lot more to do.
EDIT: Ball and McGoldrick have to play, rule one with strikers. But I think 442 would leave our midfield too exposed against a strong team away, but it can easily switch to that if needed. I like how Robins has two or three different formations we can easily play with the same players, as well as several players who play numerous roles well (e.g. Moussa, Fleck, McGoldrick, Hussey, etc.)
It's taken far too long, but we seem to actually have a competent management team in place. A few decisions may have taken too long to make, but all of them (IMO) were the right ones (Thorn out, Robins in, Ricoh bid, etc.) Whereas before the wrong decisions were being taken consistently (Sitting on the bench, player sales and lack of replacements, etc.).
Got to give credit where it's due. Though it's only been a couple of months and there's a lot more to do.
EDIT: Ball and McGoldrick have to play, rule one with strikers. But I think 442 would leave our midfield too exposed against a strong team away, but it can easily switch to that if needed. I like how Robins has two or three different formations we can easily play with the same players, as well as several players who play numerous roles well (e.g. Moussa, Fleck, McGoldrick, Hussey, etc.)
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SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
I have said it before, I blame Ken Duleiu an the others like Igwe/Brody
Gaz
Well-Known Member
Sisu made too many cuts last season and had to bring players in over the summer.
They don't deserve praise for this as they played a big part in us being in league one, in my eyes.
If new owners came in and invested in the team then yes, they would be exciting owners as they wouldn't have run us in such an inept way before like the clowns we currently have.
They don't deserve praise for this as they played a big part in us being in league one, in my eyes.
If new owners came in and invested in the team then yes, they would be exciting owners as they wouldn't have run us in such an inept way before like the clowns we currently have.
Astute
Well-Known Member
You mean new owners would cut the squad to the bone before signing players to try and get us back up to where we were when they
first took over?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
No I meant that their real interest would be in making money out of the club, not the desire to pump loads of money into the club to keep Coventry City fans happy.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
I think he (rightly IMO) means they would expect some return on their investment i.e. Do things ultimately for their own good
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Stop! Engage brain & consider that SISU have the most in-depth knowledge of how the club finances were...& where they club was heading (financial ruin). To protect their already considerable investment in the club (not team - club as a whole) to keep it afloat. Significant changes & sacrifices needed to be made. They have made them & now we have a foundation that I'm guessing they want to build upon - but it'll not happen overnight.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Listen you all......Sisu have, up until the last couple of weeks, made a complete and utter mess of running CCFC. They have made mistake after mistake. They have finally appointed a proper manager (whether that was design or a complete accident we will never know) but the club seems to be at last on the right road. Please therefore do not come on here lauding there praises for protecting our club. The simple fact of the matter is that they are doing what they have to do to protect their own skins.
Gaz
Well-Known Member
Even Tim Fisher came out and said that they cut back too much last season.
''signicant changes & sacrifices'' they went past that and now they are going to have to invest just to get us back to where they started.
Yes we don't have as much to pay out each month after cutting back on the playing squad so much last season, but now we are in league one, the income is a lot less :facepalm:
Maybe I'm just not engaging my brain ... or maybe I just havn't got my head stuck in the sand.
ajsccfc
Well-Known Member
Alternatively, he could just believe it to be true without any ulterior motive.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
so what exactly is this great success that has been achieved ? we are still losing millions, we are budgeted to continue losing millions despite not paying the rent, we still owe £ 43m (no additional shares issued to the tune of 35m euros that i know of I wonder if TF would care to confirm the extra shares :thinking about, we have a squad that the manager would not have picked is too big and costing too much, we are still 5th from bottom in the league, no deal on ownership of the stadium has been finalised, might not be and if it was it wouldnt bring any extra income. The only improvement i can see is in getting a manager that knows what he is doing. The rest is pretty much as it was and the debts are still going up
Situation normal if you ask me............ and joy seppala is only involved because she looking for a way out .......... that way out is to get her hands on acl as cheaply as possible and sell on any development rights that might accrue........ saviour of CCFC i dont think so.
Had they got it right from the start then there would be no £43m debt because the club would not have needed it....... who is to blame for that then (Joy owns SISU not onye..... who let onye free on CCFC joy?)
As for being debt free ....... has as much credence as when Ranson said it........ a debt to the owners hedge fund is still a debt..... otherwise why take a charge over all the assets to secure it.
what rubbish
SISU, Joy, CCFC, TF and others are doing a charm campaign and people are lapping it up and buying into it....... sorry but you have to look behind the veneer and ask the right questions ............ so i say again what has actually really changed ?
, we have a squad that the manager would not have picked is too big and costing too much, we are still 5th from bottom in the league, no deal on ownership of the stadium has been finalised, might not be and if it was it wouldnt bring any extra income. The only improvement i can see is in getting a manager that knows what he is doing. The rest is pretty much as it was and the debts are still going upSituation normal if you ask me............ and joy seppala is only involved because she looking for a way out .......... that way out is to get her hands on acl as cheaply as possible and sell on any development rights that might accrue........ saviour of CCFC i dont think so.
Had they got it right from the start then there would be no £43m debt because the club would not have needed it....... who is to blame for that then (Joy owns SISU not onye..... who let onye free on CCFC joy?)
As for being debt free ....... has as much credence as when Ranson said it........ a debt to the owners hedge fund is still a debt..... otherwise why take a charge over all the assets to secure it.
what rubbish
SISU, Joy, CCFC, TF and others are doing a charm campaign and people are lapping it up and buying into it....... sorry but you have to look behind the veneer and ask the right questions ............ so i say again what has actually really changed ?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
so what exactly is this great success that has been achieved ? we are still losing millions, we are budgeted to continue losing millions despite not paying the rent, we still owe £ 43m (no additional shares issued to the tune of 35m euros that i know of I wonder if TF would care to confirm the extra shares :thinking about
Situation normal if you ask me............ and joy seppala is only involved because she looking for a way out .......... that way out is to get her hands on acl as cheaply as possible and sell on any development rights that might accrue........ saviour of CCFC i dont think so.
Had they got it right from the start then there would be no £43m debt because the club would not have needed it....... who is to blame for that then (Joy owns SISU not onye..... who let onye free on CCFC joy?)
As for being debt free ....... has as much credence as when Ranson said it........ a debt to the owners hedge fund is still a debt..... otherwise why take a charge over all the assets to secure it.
what rubbish
SISU, Joy, CCFC, TF and others are doing a charm campaign and people are lapping it up and buying into it....... sorry but you have to look behind the veneer and ask the right questions ............ so i say again what has actually really changed ?
What has changed is that they are funding the losses. That in most on here is confused with investment. It is loading the ship with more baggage to sink with in reality but for most investment means throwing money in the right direction regardless of future consequence.
I've always felt that SISU are not the devil incarnate. They must be Irish as they behave in a way that hedge funds don't. They buy a business, put money in with no overall control mechanisms, lose money and then put more money in. I don't think they are bad they are just useless.
cloughie
Well-Known Member
joy seppala is only involved because she looking for a way out .......... that way out is to get her hands on acl as cheaply as possible and sell on any development rights that might accrue........ saviour of CCFC i dont think so quote OSB
Absolutely true and what I have been saying for ever and a day
I cannot understand why people can't see it ????
They are in cloud cuckoo land if they think Joy has suddenly taken the Sky Blues to heart and is gripped by every game
Absolutely true and what I have been saying for ever and a day
I cannot understand why people can't see it ????
They are in cloud cuckoo land if they think Joy has suddenly taken the Sky Blues to heart and is gripped by every game
Astute
Well-Known Member
so what exactly is this great success that has been achieved ? we are still losing millions, we are budgeted to continue losing millions despite not paying the rent, we still owe £ 43m (no additional shares issued to the tune of 35m euros that i know of I wonder if TF would care to confirm the extra shares :thinking about
Situation normal if you ask me............ and joy seppala is only involved because she looking for a way out .......... that way out is to get her hands on acl as cheaply as possible and sell on any development rights that might accrue........ saviour of CCFC i dont think so.
Had they got it right from the start then there would be no £43m debt because the club would not have needed it....... who is to blame for that then (Joy owns SISU not onye..... who let onye free on CCFC joy?)
As for being debt free ....... has as much credence as when Ranson said it........ a debt to the owners hedge fund is still a debt..... otherwise why take a charge over all the assets to secure it.
what rubbish
SISU, Joy, CCFC, TF and others are doing a charm campaign and people are lapping it up and buying into it....... sorry but you have to look behind the veneer and ask the right questions ............ so i say again what has actually really changed ?
So you think they have done a good job then OSB?
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Yeah, SISU took over in December 2007, very nearly 5 years ago, in that time they have achieved one relegation, are on their 5th manager (Dowie, Coleman, Boothroyd, Thorn & now Robins), and 3rd chief exec. (Ranson, Delieu, Fisher). The club lies near the bottom of division 3, is expected to repay the £43M that SISU have so far put into the club and still does not own its own ground.
If this is success, then maybe Rangers aren't doing so bad after all.
If this is success, then maybe Rangers aren't doing so bad after all.
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Irish?.........
Gaz
Well-Known Member
Well apparently Sisu have built the foundations now and are ready to build on it..... But it won't happen over night.
Wrenstreetcarpark
New Member
Joy Seppala is a worried woman. Sisu looks like a busted flush, not just with the mess they have created here with CCFC but in the rest of the business too. She has been trying to re-build a reputation: remember she has been called a liar not just once by a judge but twice, once in London and again in New York in separate cases. She sits on the Code Committee (hard to believe) of the Takeover Panel. She need to spend on PR as her rep is only just better than Saville and Armstrong. I bet she would sell you a timeshare in Spain and a nice second hand Punto...
skyblueinBaku
Well-Known Member
That article read as if it had been written by Joy or her PR team. She still has no interest in CCFC except as a means to get hold of at least part of ACL and open the way to making money from the development of the land round the Ricoh. Steadying the ship? More like casting around to try and salvage something from the wreck.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
So you think they have done a good job then OSB?
give me a little time to think on that one Astute it is a tricky question............. :thinking about:.......... errr............. No
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Funding the losses isnt new Grendel ........ in fact it is all they have done from day one .......... they simply did not and still have not got to grips with the fundamental issue that dogs this and most other clubs ......... you cannot spend more than your income without digging a deeper and deeper hole of debt.
If i were an investor with SISU i would want to know why it took £40m debt, that is pretty much irrecoverable unless they get their hands on the development, before they chose to act. But even now they budget for losses this year in the gamble that the club will get promoted........ yet teams with smaller wage bills out perform them .... that performance level may change by end of season but promotion isnt guaranteed.
Another question ..... if all this "improvement" is solely down to Joy Seppala...... dealing with finances, funding players, signing players, finding new manager, negotiating for stadium etc ........ what is the point or need for TF and his salary?.......... clearly if the story is to believed he hasnt done much because joy has done it all.
Anyone know if there are any minutes of the meetings of the Supporters Consultative Group available ..... in particular their meeting with TF?
The article in the CT is spin, ill informed and laughable. But the guy is entitled to his opinion.
If i were an investor with SISU i would want to know why it took £40m debt, that is pretty much irrecoverable unless they get their hands on the development, before they chose to act. But even now they budget for losses this year in the gamble that the club will get promoted........ yet teams with smaller wage bills out perform them .... that performance level may change by end of season but promotion isnt guaranteed.
Another question ..... if all this "improvement" is solely down to Joy Seppala...... dealing with finances, funding players, signing players, finding new manager, negotiating for stadium etc ........ what is the point or need for TF and his salary?.......... clearly if the story is to believed he hasnt done much because joy has done it all.
Anyone know if there are any minutes of the meetings of the Supporters Consultative Group available ..... in particular their meeting with TF?
The article in the CT is spin, ill informed and laughable. But the guy is entitled to his opinion.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
final thought ........... all of a sudden there is a lot of spin around building up SISU, painting the council as the obstruction, carefully chosen phrases that seem to promise better but weeks even months later fail to deliver, back tracking on things said, blame apportioned solely to those no longer at the club.......... very little substance when probed and always hidden behind commercial secrecy. But no one in the press etc asks the questions, and any half decent question is either ignored or rebuffed by carefully crafted spin. There are as usual very few facts and even less that are up to date.
Yes we have had a couple of results under our new manager (decent appointment if you ask me) but what at this point has actually fundamentally changed for the club ? I know i am lucky i understand a lot of the finance information presented but it concerns me that there are so many new and ill informed "financial experts" suddenly appearing muddying the waters (not worried by the competition just want the facts right - the article and posts yesterday clearly illustrated a lack of understanding or even knowledge of published facts) ....... which in essence leaves SISU to continue their plan unaccounatable and largely unquestioned. Perhaps that is a bit conspiracy theory but even so there is a definite shift in the publicity ..... but based on what and provided by who ? very few facts thats for certain
Lets be very clear SISU and TF in particular understand the importance of good PR or spin ........ it is a tool they repeatedly use ........ yes it has an effect on the fans, it raises them up changes perceptions but that isnt the real PR target. The PR is aimed at the Charity and in particular the Council ....... its purpose is to put pressure on both to do things the SISU way. Bottom line is that if ACL, Council or Charity do not do a deal SISU's way over the stadium then if the club fails it will be seen as their fault not SISU's. The council in particular will be seen to have brought down the club, with all the political ramifications of that for not only Mutton but also the other councillors. SISU and TF have manoeuvered the club (but in reality SISU) into a position where they can claim victim and the high ground should things not go their way. The council is at high risk in this one .... not because they have done much wrong .... but because the public perception is that they have caused the ills at CCFC. Very clever game by SISU, Joy and Tim
The truth of course is somewhat different as far as the finances go - all double talk, smoke & mirrors even if you are able to understand it ......... but the general public isnt really interested in that truth, they just want to see their team winning and will react badly to any perceived obstacle no matter who actually created that perception.
Right now is not for me a hugely positive moment for CCFC .......... i am concerned. There is too much deliberately not being said, too many things that simply just do not stack up, too much spin, the operation conducted by TF and Joy is very smooth but actually nothing much of substance is ever said. We need to remember the only driving force of a hedge fund is profit & money ......... CCFC is budgetted and operated to continue making losses, the profit and money is therefore elsewhere in this plan...... only leaves one target doesnt it and CCFC is the way in not the reward
Yes we have had a couple of results under our new manager (decent appointment if you ask me) but what at this point has actually fundamentally changed for the club ? I know i am lucky i understand a lot of the finance information presented but it concerns me that there are so many new and ill informed "financial experts" suddenly appearing muddying the waters (not worried by the competition just want the facts right - the article and posts yesterday clearly illustrated a lack of understanding or even knowledge of published facts) ....... which in essence leaves SISU to continue their plan unaccounatable and largely unquestioned. Perhaps that is a bit conspiracy theory but even so there is a definite shift in the publicity ..... but based on what and provided by who ? very few facts thats for certain
Lets be very clear SISU and TF in particular understand the importance of good PR or spin ........ it is a tool they repeatedly use ........ yes it has an effect on the fans, it raises them up changes perceptions but that isnt the real PR target. The PR is aimed at the Charity and in particular the Council ....... its purpose is to put pressure on both to do things the SISU way. Bottom line is that if ACL, Council or Charity do not do a deal SISU's way over the stadium then if the club fails it will be seen as their fault not SISU's. The council in particular will be seen to have brought down the club, with all the political ramifications of that for not only Mutton but also the other councillors. SISU and TF have manoeuvered the club (but in reality SISU) into a position where they can claim victim and the high ground should things not go their way. The council is at high risk in this one .... not because they have done much wrong .... but because the public perception is that they have caused the ills at CCFC. Very clever game by SISU, Joy and Tim
The truth of course is somewhat different as far as the finances go - all double talk, smoke & mirrors even if you are able to understand it ......... but the general public isnt really interested in that truth, they just want to see their team winning and will react badly to any perceived obstacle no matter who actually created that perception.
Right now is not for me a hugely positive moment for CCFC .......... i am concerned. There is too much deliberately not being said, too many things that simply just do not stack up, too much spin, the operation conducted by TF and Joy is very smooth but actually nothing much of substance is ever said. We need to remember the only driving force of a hedge fund is profit & money ......... CCFC is budgetted and operated to continue making losses, the profit and money is therefore elsewhere in this plan...... only leaves one target doesnt it and CCFC is the way in not the reward
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Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Of course not, bar clubs who are owned by fans and clubs owned by a fan of that club, no owners actually care about the club and are there to make profit but some seem to forget that. Fact: in the economic system we have, it is all about profit, anything for profit... Sport is rotten to the core because of this.
SISU are no different, nor unique, they've just mis-managed the club for whatever reasons, but give them this, they are here to stay because there is a chance we can make real profit in the next 5 odd years...
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skyblueman
New Member
They are here for now because they do not have the balls to admit it is a total cock-up and continue in the hope that they will get lucky and be able to minimise the losses or even make a profit - SISU should know when to give up and that was a good while ago - but we have egos here the size of the stadium and they do not want to admit they got it wrong - only unsustainable losses going forward or a major problem for the fund itself will change any of this I'm afraid