Joy Seppala and SISU Honesty. (1 Viewer)

giveusagoal · Feb 17, 2013

I posted this as a response to another posts - so sorry to anyone reading this again - but i thought it may be worth it's own thread.

When trying to work out the truth behind who said what and when we need to look at the integrity of some of those concerned.

I think we, at least most of us, think that SISU and the board have on occasions, lets be polite and say, not benn forthcoming with the true situation in regards to their finacial dealings etc.

Well some individuals seem to have form in this - especialy in respect of who said what to who and when during negotiations - Ring a bell? Rent negotiations anyone?

Joy Seppella was Criticised by a High Court Judge in 2005 - here is what he said

Ms Seppala was the least satisfactory of all the witnesses. In making my general comments above, I said that no-one was deliberately lying. But I fear Ms Seppala has a distorted recollection of some events – particularly about what happened at the meetings in New York in January 2005 – and, with the benefit of hindsight, has introduced a "spin" (I am sorry not to be able to find a better word) which suits the Applicants' case. She is also prone to exaggerate – the Respondents would characterise it as lying, but I give her the benefit of the doubt on that – for instance her suggestion (eventually withdrawn by her) that Mr Wallace had "continually" represented to the Applicants that the RCF Banks had a strong direct claim against TXU Corp when in fact he never said that at all. She also recollects (and she may well have believed what she was saying) events which did not, as I conclude, take place (namely a conversation with Mr Wallace "in a small room" and Mr Olin reading and explaining a position paper in New York on 11 January 2005). She is, I am quite sure, an astute and effective business woman. I totally reject her description of herself as naïve. I am quite sure that she was closely involved in developments as the representative of SISU as a Committee Creditor. But she had many other business matters on her mind and when it came to producing her witness statement and giving her oral evidence, her recollection was not, I think, as accurate as she would like to make out.

Click to expand...

Here is the link - paragraph 138 makes the interesting reading. Oh and by the way SISU lost this case. http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/marku...2170.html&query="sisu+capital"&method=boolean

Godiva · Feb 17, 2013

Interesting - a new poster pops up with an eight year old quote (which I believe has already been posted here in the board/finance section a year ago).

Most posters start posting something football related and are then slowly getting into the off-field debate.

Anyway - welcome to the forum.

How did you come across the quote (as you apparently didn't find it on here)? And what made you search for it?
Or - rather - who made you aware of it?

giveusagoal · Feb 17, 2013

My Reasons

Godiva - I only found this forum yesterday while researching SISU, as a life long Coventry fan who thinks they are screwing us over.

There was 2 articles shown by google for this site and SISU - one entitled the debt queen based on an article from 2005.

Another showed a thread for the appeal on costs for the case i quoted - and not about the case itself. Have carried out a search of the site and can not find the link i have added nor the direct quote.

As for not posting about football related topics first - would you really have preffered it if i had made a dozen posts on MR leaving, Goldie going to Ipswich, or Huddersfiled losing to Wigan - and then gone oh! wait on chaps! i have known about this a few weeks but thought i best post on football first?

The reason for my research was some people on facebook were still defending SISU and making out that ACL where a problem - something i dispute.

So in short - i joined the site to bring this info to peoples attention - i think the info is new to this site - and should be posted - no matter how many posts i have made. It does bring light into Joy's and SISU integrity.

Godiva · Feb 17, 2013

Very well then. Here's a tip. Though this section is actually designed for topics like the one you raise, it only (per default) applies to periods when the finances or the ownership is out of the daily debate. So you will find 10-20 new threads on everything sisu, rent, ACL et al in the general discussion forum.

Another thing you will find out quickly is the population onboard loves a good conspiracy theory. For instance if a new poster pops up and start speading poison about a person related in some way to the club, the poster could be somebody who is having a dispute with the person the poster tries to portrait somewhat unfavorable.

Back to the article you quote. Was she ever found guilty of anything? Did she serve time? Was she fined?

You clearly belive sisu is not to be trusted when it comes to the rent sistuation. Are ACL to be trusted? The council?
Or do you think they each try to spin their words to win over the fans?

If you're a lifelong fan, then surely you will have no allegence with either part. Only to the survival of the club?

But please join us in the many threads in the general chat section.

cloughie · Feb 17, 2013

Godiva said:
Very well then. Here's a tip. Though this section is actually designed for topics like the one you raise, it only (per default) applies to periods when the finances or the ownership is out of the daily debate. So you will find 10-20 new threads on everything sisu, rent, ACL et al in the general discussion forum.

Another thing you will find out quickly is the population onboard loves a good conspiracy theory. For instance if a new poster pops up and start speading poison about a person related in some way to the club, the poster could be somebody who is having a dispute with the person the poster tries to portrait somewhat unfavorable.

Back to the article you quote. Was she ever found guilty of anything? Did she serve time? Was she fined?

You clearly belive sisu is not to be trusted when it comes to the rent sistuation. Are ACL to be trusted? The council?
Or do you think they each try to spin their words to win over the fans?

If you're a lifelong fan, then surely you will have no allegence with either part. Only to the survival of the club?

But please join us in the many threads in the general chat section.

what an unfactual response The conspiracy theory and spreading poison Hmmm think he was quoting a court of law

Hey but you know OJ Simpson was innocent and I'm sure you believe that as well

cloughie · Feb 17, 2013

Godiva said:
Very well then. Here's a tip. Though this section is actually designed for topics like the one you raise, it only (per default) applies to periods when the finances or the ownership is out of the daily debate. So you will find 10-20 new threads on everything sisu, rent, ACL et al in the general discussion forum.

Another thing you will find out quickly is the population onboard loves a good conspiracy theory. For instance if a new poster pops up and start speading poison about a person related in some way to the club, the poster could be somebody who is having a dispute with the person the poster tries to portrait somewhat unfavorable.

Back to the article you quote. Was she ever found guilty of anything? Did she serve time? Was she fined?

You clearly belive sisu is not to be trusted when it comes to the rent sistuation. Are ACL to be trusted? The council?
Or do you think they each try to spin their words to win over the fans?

If you're a lifelong fan, then surely you will have no allegence with either part. Only to the survival of the club?

But please join us in the many threads in the general chat section.

Rather patronising ................but no suprise

giveusagoal · Feb 17, 2013

Godiva said:
Very well then. Here's a tip. Though this section is actually designed for topics like the one you raise, it only (per default) applies to periods when the finances or the ownership is out of the daily debate. So you will find 10-20 new threads on everything sisu, rent, ACL et al in the general discussion forum.

Thank you for that tip and insight into the workings of the site.

Another thing you will find out quickly is the population onboard loves a good conspiracy theory. For instance if a new poster pops up and start speading poison about a person related in some way to the club, the poster could be somebody who is having a dispute with the person the poster tries to portrait somewhat unfavorable.

Having been an active member and involved in forums such as the 'consumer action group' for a number of years, i am aware of how newbies can be viewed.

Back to the article you quote. Was she ever found guilty of anything? Did she serve time? Was she fined?

I have not quoted an article - I have given a direct quote from a high court judge during his giving the reasons for his judgement.

The hearing was in the THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE CHANCERY DIVISION COMPANIES COURT, which is a civil court. Not being a criminal court no one can be 'found guilty, serve time or be fined'. However, the Judge clearly states her evidence was unreliable, including her recolection of meetings that didn't happen, and her ability to recall things that were never said. (For an example it would be like agreeing to a rent proposal - then denying anything of the kind happenning.)

Sisu lost the case - the civil courts equivelant of a conviction, if such a comparison could be made.

You clearly belive sisu is not to be trusted when it comes to the rent sistuation. Are ACL to be trusted? The council?
Or do you think they each try to spin their words to win over the fans?

I Can not hide my distrust of Sisu. I do not especialy trust the council either. I have seen no evidence of ACL dishonesty - though i am aware that as the Council are part owners, the possibility of a bit of spin is not discounted. The other owners though are a registered charity - without whose help, and willigness to take out the mortgage, we would not have the Ricoh.

When i compare possible spin by ACL, run by an elected local authority and a registered charity, and the words/deeds/history of SISU, a faceless, secretive, private equity firm owned by someone whose integrity has been questioned by a High Court Judge, then my inclination is to treat ACL's words more favourably than SISU's untill eveidence dicates otherwise. (How many times have SISU shown to have misled the fans)?

If you're a lifelong fan, then surely you will have no allegence with either part. Only to the survival of the club?

Of course my allegience is not with either party per se. I would rather that none of them owned the Stadium, or CCFC. The reason for my post is to question Sisu's integrity. If you have any evidence to question ACL's integrity i would be happy to see it.

But please join us in the many threads in the general chat section.

Thank you i will - and now that i have found this site i look forward to contributing

Pleae ignore this line - i had to add it as the quote is not counted towards the charactrs of a post

Godiva · Feb 17, 2013

giveusagoal said:
Pleae ignore this line - i had to add it as the quote is not counted towards the charactrs of a post

Yes - it is quite annoying. Most people just put: (10 characters)

Again, welcome to the forum. I am sure we will be having many interesting conversations.

Bluegloucester · Feb 17, 2013

giveusagoal said:
Pleae ignore this line - i had to add it as the quote is not counted towards the charactrs of a post

Welcome to the site

giveusagoal · Feb 17, 2013

Bluegloucester said:
Welcome to the site

Thank you BG

cofastreecity · Feb 17, 2013

giveusagoal said:
Pleae ignore this line - i had to add it as the quote is not counted towards the charactrs of a post

Welcome, it's nice to see fact based evidence portrayed on this site, thank god she did not shake the Judges hand, having said that Tim is selective on who is shakes hands with according to his SL interview on CWR, I thought he said he would not shake the hands of many in that room apparently the day the deal was agreed, so much for arbitration working

SkyblueBazza · Feb 17, 2013

Godiva said:
Yes - it is quite annoying. Most people just put: (10 characters)

Again, welcome to the forum. I am sure we will be having many interesting conversations.

...and many tedious ones too :-/

SkyblueBazza · Feb 17, 2013

cofastreecity said:
Welcome, it's nice to see fact based evidence portrayed on this site, thank god she did not shake the Judges hand, having said that Tim is selective on who is shakes hands with according to his SL interview on CWR, I thought he said he would not shake the hands of many in that room apparently the day the deal was agreed, so much for arbitration working

Ah! Do not be mislead...many of the "facts" stated on the forum are as figment as Joy Seppala's which the Judge refers to I'm afraid.

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