John Beech on BBC (1 Viewer)

Otis · Mar 25, 2013

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21919685

Otis · Mar 25, 2013

He thinks this sticking point of who owns the share and the holding company and CCFC's links could take months to unravel.

That does point to maybe 25 points off next season doesn't it?

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 25, 2013

It should be fecking simple provided the League don't have memories of a goldfish.

shropshirecov · Mar 25, 2013

I'd rather just fold and start again

hill83 · Mar 25, 2013

shropshirecov said:
I'd rather just fold and start again

Think about that properly. Really think about it. That would be utter shit.

covmark · Mar 25, 2013

shropshirecov said:
I'd rather just fold and start again

Jesus Christ, have a word with yourself mate

bamalamafizzfazz · Mar 25, 2013

Otis said:
He thinks this sticking point of who owns the share and the holding company and CCFC's links could take months to unravel.

That does point to maybe 25 points off next season doesn't it?

Surely if clubs have been found to be transferring assets in the past to avoid paying outstanding debtors and protecting their own interests then the same fate will befall CCFC/ SISU.

I strongly believe that the courts will rule in favour of ACL tomorrow as pretty much CCFC holdings is only there as a contingency for the failure of CCFC Ltd. This would leave us with a 10 point deduction this season.

Following this, if a takeover happened against the will of SISU which I expect we would start next season with a 15 point deduction.

You have to bare in mind that this is being presided over by a judge and what judge in the land would rule that the club should take a 25 point deduction in one season? Has this happened before? The only real losers there are us the supporters as a lot of these business heads couldn't care less about how the team does just how it affects them financially.

oldskyblue58 · Mar 25, 2013

It is a little surprising that the FL do not have a public register that is up to date of all members (share owners)................. surely would not then be an issue that keeps getting repeated. It would be neither costly nor difficult to do.

How can they expect transparency from clubs when they seem to fail in that respect themselves?

shropshirecov · Mar 25, 2013

hill83 said:
Think about that properly. Really think about it. That would be utter shit.

Utter shit....imagine that!

Lets carry on then

bamalamafizzfazz · Mar 25, 2013

shropshirecov said:
Utter shit....imagine that!

Lets carry on then

Yes, lets carry on in League One with a league registration with an up and coming manager, one of the best strikers in the league on a three year contract and owners who even though I don't like their high level management have actually ran operations at pitch level reletively well.

Or we could just 'start again' as you say in the nth division (think it's called the Evo Stick) with no professional staff and no ground. Wait another 10-15 years before we get back to this level if we ever make it at all.

Do you want to reconsider?

shropshirecov · Mar 25, 2013

Yeah okay let's carry on, you've won me over.....we're doing okay

bamalamafizzfazz · Mar 25, 2013

shropshirecov said:
Yeah okay let's carry on, you've won me over.....we're doing okay

On the plus side, we might have got a game

torchomatic · Mar 25, 2013

Didn't Grendel get accused of scaremongering last week when he mentioned a 25 point deduction?

Otis said:
He thinks this sticking point of who owns the share and the holding company and CCFC's links could take months to unravel.

That does point to maybe 25 points off next season doesn't it?

Otis · Mar 25, 2013

He did indeed.

Penalty for going in and for coming out of admin potentially.

Both this season and next could be done and dusted as far as our ambitions on the pitch go.

oldskyblue58 · Mar 25, 2013

I think we need to appreciate that as these situations occur for the FL then each case is different. Yes there are rules saying points deduction this year if admin by 4th Thursday in March but the FL Board have absolute discretion in imposing any penalties they see fit. There is no hard and fast rule as such. If they consider the owners have been reckless, negligent, not done things in the proper way, tried to impose changes at CCFc on the FL rather than got permission first etc then that could mean serious trouble for the club. 10 points could be well short of what we get hit for

dongonzalos · Mar 25, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
I think we need to appreciate that as these situations occur for the FL then each case is different. Yes there are rules saying points deduction this year if admin by 4th Thursday in March but the FL Board have absolute discretion in imposing any penalties they see fit. There is no hard and fast rule as such. If they consider the owners have been reckless, negligent, not done things in the proper way, tried to impose changes at CCFc on the FL rather than got permission first etc then that could mean serious trouble for the club. 10 points could be well short of what we get hit for

Rangers, shit owners football league nailed them. The fans were the ones who really suffered.

It's a shame the punishments hit the clubs and not the owners.

TrueSkyBlueLiam · Mar 25, 2013

shropshirecov said:
I'd rather just fold and start again

Dude, what have you been smoking?

hutch1972 · Mar 25, 2013

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administration_(British_football)
Didn't realise so many teams had points deducted. Interesting footnotes though even if they scare me.

skyblue1523 · Mar 25, 2013

i fear if sisu get caught out with tampering fl papers to suit theirself then we might end up playing in div 2 as the league will have no other choice but to make a example of us and any other team doing the same thing.

covcity4life · Mar 25, 2013

skyblue1523 said:
i fear if sisu get caught out with tampering fl papers to suit theirself then we might end up playing in div 2 as the league will have no other choice but to make a example of us and any other team doing the same thing.

yeh thats worrying me too

Bluegloucester · Mar 25, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
It is a little surprising that the FL do not have a public register that is up to date of all members (share owners)................. surely would not then be an issue that keeps getting repeated. It would be neither costly nor difficult to do.

How can they expect transparency from clubs when they seem to fail in that respect themselves?

OSB, the Football League Handbook list all members. I know it is not live, but it is information as of June 2012.

oldskyblue58 · Mar 25, 2013

Cheers Bluegloucester................. was thinking more like Companies House so it is online. But even Companies House has its fault because changes in members is not live updated. With 92 clubs it shouldnt be that difficult to have an up to date register online should it? Unlikely it changes that often.

Diehard Si · Mar 25, 2013

skyblue1523 said:
i fear if sisu get caught out with tampering fl papers to suit theirself then we might end up playing in div 2 as the league will have no other choice but to make a example of us and any other team doing the same thing.

And me. In fact it might be more severe than that. It could be relegation of 2 divisions (which had happened in a few cases).

Bluegloucester · Mar 25, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
Cheers Bluegloucester................. was thinking more like Companies House so it is online. But even Companies House has its fault because changes in members is not live updated. With 92 clubs it shouldnt be that difficult to have an up to date register online should it? Unlikely it changes that often.

Yes, you would think it would be quite simple to implement.

hutch1972 · Mar 25, 2013

Diehard Si said:
And me. In fact it might be more severe than that. It could be relegation of 2 divisions (which had happened in a few cases).

Swindon were relegated 2 divisions but changed to 1 on appeal. Check out wikis list on football administration, it shows both crimes and punishments

mattylad · Mar 25, 2013

I think the share resides with CCFC Ltd but CCFC Holdings have told the administrator that they have exercised a claim on it based on ARVO being the major creditor...I also expect the courts to throw out the ACL claim tomorrow based on the fact they are not the main creditor but lets wait and see.

oldskyblue58 · Mar 25, 2013

dont League rules prohibit the share being charged mortgaged or otherwise encumbered ?

mattylad · Mar 25, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
dont League rules prohibit the share being charged mortgaged or otherwise encumbered ?

With the Ken Bates purchase of Leeds the share reverted to the league who then handed it back only when satisfyed that all the correct administration legal proceedings had been completed.
I imagine SISU are hoping for the same in that the share will go to the League and presuming the administrator holds up the CCFC holdings claim that it is now running the club the league will then hand it back to them.
For me the crucial ruling tomorrow is whether the judge concurs that ARVO is the major creditor, even ACL have had to concede that ARVO had a legal right to put the club into administration in front of them and are only arguing over the fact that it should be for the court to decide whom the administrator should be given the special circumstances surrounding the case.
I would really like to see an independent third party administrator brought in but I don't see that happening.

sky blue zam · Mar 25, 2013

osb.. if the fl share is still in ccfc ltd could sisu sell ccfc ltd and just dance off into the sunset with ccfc holdings? where would that leave ccfc on the whole

davebart · Mar 25, 2013

Folding and starting again is not the disaster some imagine.

For one thing it is likely ACL would support the new club. Secondly fans tend to be loyal to their club and continue watching even in the lowest leagues. Thirdly - football at the lower levels is not as bad as people who haven't watched it realise, especially for clubs like coventry which would win every game by a substantial margin.

Fourthly it would rid the fans of SISU and a massive debt.

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