Joe Cole & Bigi in talks about perm deals (8 Viewers)

shmmeee · Jan 1, 2016

Grendel said:
So Maddison needs a mentor and someone to develop him more than those who've already developed him?

Ok.....

Left wing? Send Murphy back then? Where does JOB fit in with a team with Joe cole?

How many times have you seen cole play this season?

You think the best thing for Madders development is to play him every game?

Grendel · Jan 1, 2016

shmmeee said:
You think the best thing for Madders development is to play him every game?

I think we need promotion this season so yes. Who cares about long term as he won't be here then anyway.

shmmeee · Jan 1, 2016

Grendel said:
I think we need promotion this season so yes. Who cares about long term as he won't be here then anyway.

I think no matter what we want the fact is a kid in his first full season needs a rest, no matter how good.

skybluetony176 · Jan 1, 2016

Grendel said:
So Maddison needs a mentor and someone to develop him more than those who've already developed him?

Ok.....

Left wing? Send Murphy back then? Where does JOB fit in with a team with Joe cole?

How many times have you seen cole play this season?

He'll be good for Madders. Same as Gary Mac was good for Gerrard when he left us for Liverpool. It's not uncommon to see in football, an older more experienced player mentoring a younger inexperienced player while still being a squad member themselves.

Grendel · Jan 1, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
He'll be good for Madders. Same as Gary Mac was good for Gerrard when he left us for Liverpool. It's not uncommon to see in football, an older more experienced player mentoring a younger inexperienced player while still being a squad member themselves.

I'd say in this league it's virtually unknown.

skybluetony176 · Jan 1, 2016

Nick said:
I don't think he has the fitness now for on the Right or Left to get backwards and forwards.

At this moment in time I don't disagree but if he can stay injury free and get fully match fit hopefully that will change.

Samo · Jan 1, 2016

Grendel said:
I'd say in this league it's virtually unknown.

You and Tony would argue about the colour of shite!

Jack Griffin · Jan 1, 2016

Grendel said:
So Maddison needs a mentor and someone to develop him more than those who've already developed him?

Left wing? Send Murphy back then? Where does JOB fit in with a team with Joe cole?

Doesn't JOB's contact end this Summer (July), can't see it being renewed.

The high energy stuff is being obtained from younger loanees like Kent & Murphy, don't need another Billy Wizz type.

skybluetony176 · Jan 1, 2016

Grendel said:
I'd say in this league it's virtually unknown.

Couldn't tell you. Still a good idea and possibly an astute move by TM as it could help get the best out of Madders while we have him meaning not only could it improve our promotion chances it would also help push his value up.

skybluetony176 · Jan 1, 2016

Samo said:
You and Tony would argue about the colour of shite!

Depends on your diet. Mines currently black as I was on a Guinness and meat diet yesterday.

I know, TMI.

fernandopartridge · Jan 1, 2016

Grendel said:
I suspect our obsession with him will cost us promotion. He was behind the pace against Port Vale and poor.

Why is he so lacking in fitness having trained with the club for 8 weeks?

He's not played much in that time

callumeast · Jan 1, 2016

I think, as Nick says, that Cole's perm deal is less about him performing amazingly on the pitch (because so far it doesn't look like he can do that) but in a coaching/pay to play deal in which he can have a huge and decided influence on younger players, and is a great character to have around a dressing room of young lads.

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callumeast · Jan 1, 2016

I'm unsure about Bigi though, for me, best performance was at Bradford and even then he was decidedly average.

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stevefloyd · Jan 1, 2016

I have said i wouldnt be too worried if he went but i would be equally delighted if he stayed, he has been injured in one form or another for the last 2 years so it will take time for him to regain fitness he looks better now than when he arrived and remember gary mac wasnt too good when he 1st come but got better... a lot better

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 1, 2016

Personally, I always thought COle was a waste as a short term loan. I'm not convinced either that he'll ever hit form again, if he's here long term, but having put the miles in to date it absolutely had to be with a view to getting the benefit further down the line.

So, 18 month contract, with a break clause end of this season if it all goes pear shaped seems reasonable.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 1, 2016

stevefloyd said:
I have said i wouldnt be too worried if he went but i would be equally delighted if he stayed, he has been injured in one form or another for the last 2 years so it will take time for him to regain fitness he looks better now than when he arrived and remember gary mac wasnt too good when he 1st come but got better... a lot better

Did take McAllister until his third season, mind!

And he was dire second time around... when on his way down from his peak.

idm1975 · Jan 1, 2016

Grendel said:
I suspect our obsession with him will cost us promotion. He was behind the pace against Port Vale and poor.

Why is he so lacking in fitness having trained with the club for 8 weeks?

He wasn't he the only one like that in the first half? As far as i could see the whole team were as they were caught out by the pressing of vale. Admittedly his fitness isnt quite there yet but will come with more game time, i for one cant wait till it is!

stevefloyd · Jan 1, 2016

Yes he came good in the end, a lot of people seem to forget that. but on the Cole subject again ... just think any potential new signing we have lined up would maybe be persuaded that little bit more with the prospect of playing/training with JC

skybluetony176 · Jan 1, 2016

stevefloyd said:
Yes he came good in the end, a lot of people seem to forget that. but on the Cole subject again ... just think any potential new signing we have lined up would maybe be persuaded that little bit more with the prospect of playing/training with JC

Without doubt he is/will be here for more reasons than first team football.

stevefloyd · Jan 1, 2016

So perhaps an astute signing in more ways than one by our Mr Mowbray

Hobo · Jan 1, 2016

duffer said:
Funnily enough, I think Cole is more likely to come good next season - there's no doubt of his ability, but at the moment he looks some way off the pace to me (at least based on what I saw against Port Vale). However a proper pre-season and more game time, and I think there's a player there capable of lifting the whole team even if only for a year or two.

Similarly with Bigi really; again what I see is a player desperately short of game time, and as a result he's getting caught out too often. There is a decent midfielder in there somewhere, we just need him to get some energy and confidence back in his game. As with Cole, I think we'd see the best of him next season. I'd be happy to sign them both, personally, appreciate others may differ!

if he doesn't perform between now and the end of the season he never will. I personally think you are way over optimistic about Cole who has hardly played since 2013 and by next year he will be 35. It looks to me like his legs are spent and you do need legs in his position.

I can buy into influence coaching role etc. the only playing role I see is last 20 mins old head to calm things and close games out.

Terry Gibson's perm · Jan 1, 2016

Nick said:
Will Bigi get a discount because he owns a barbers?

I can see Cole being on a pay as you play / coaching type deal. He will be good to have around the dressing room and the training pitch, he might not be able to do the same on the pitch but if he can pass things on to Maddison and the other younger players it is only a good thing isn't it?

It has taken all day for the gag to sink in.

Otis · Jan 1, 2016

Terry Gibson's perm said:
It has taken all day for the gag to sink in.

What that you got your Terry Gibson's perm at Bigi's barbers?

letsallsingtogether · Jan 1, 2016

Samo said:
You and Tony would argue about the colour of shite!

No they know that is Claret and Blue☺

Sumo the Micky Quinn · Jan 1, 2016

This is a stat that popped last weekend when Sky Sports Saturday did a piece about subs.

	Premier League All time appearances as a sub coming on.
	Players	Subbed on to Pitch	Total Appearances	Goals
1	Jermain Defoe	131	413	132
2	Joe Cole	123	378	47
3	Peter Crouch	117	396	95
4	Ryan Giggs	110	632	109
5	James Milner	105	404	38
6	Paul Scholes	95	499	107
7	Shaun Wright-Phillips	89	316	32
8	James Beattie	85	330	91
9	Matthew Taylor	84	325	40
10	Danny Murphy	81	417	50
11	Robbie Keane	76	349	126
12	Emile Heskey	71	516	110
13	Michael Owen	69	326	150
14	Teddy Sheringham	68	418	147
15	Nicky Butt	68	411	29

	Premier League All time appearances subbed of during a game.
	Players	Subbed Off	Games Started	Total Appearances	Goals
1	Ryan Giggs	134	522	632	109
2	Joe Cole	127	255	378	47
3	Emile Heskey	126	445	516	110
4	Paul Scholes	126	404	499	107
5	Danny Murphy	121	336	417	50
6	Steed Malbranque	118	301	336	39
7	Damien Duff	116	327	392	54
8	Dennis Bergkamp	104	253	315	87
9	Peter Crouch	102	279	396	95
10	Nicolas Anelka	99	318	364	125
11	Scott Parker	97	336	368	24
12	Steven Gerrard	94	466	504	120
13	Nick Barmby	94	287	343	53
14	Kevin Nolan	93	360	401	69
15	Jermain Defoe	91	282	413	132

idm1975 · Jan 1, 2016

Sumo the Micky Quinn said:
This is a stat that popped last weekend when Sky Sports Saturday did a piece about subs.

Premier League All time appearances as a sub coming on.
Players Subbed on to Pitch Total Appearances Goals
1 Jermain Defoe 131 413 132
2 Joe Cole 123 378 47
3 Peter Crouch 117 396 95
4 Ryan Giggs 110 632 109
5 James Milner 105 404 38
6 Paul Scholes 95 499 107
7 Shaun Wright-Phillips 89 316 32
8 James Beattie 85 330 91
9 Matthew Taylor 84 325 40
10 Danny Murphy 81 417 50
11 Robbie Keane 76 349 126
12 Emile Heskey 71 516 110
13 Michael Owen 69 326 150
14 Teddy Sheringham 68 418 147
15 Nicky Butt 68 411 29

Premier League All time appearances subbed of during a game.
Players Subbed Off Games Started Total Appearances Goals
1 Ryan Giggs 134 522 632 109
2 Joe Cole 127 255 378 47
3 Emile Heskey 126 445 516 110
4 Paul Scholes 126 404 499 107
5 Danny Murphy 121 336 417 50
6 Steed Malbranque 118 301 336 39
7 Damien Duff 116 327 392 54
8 Dennis Bergkamp 104 253 315 87
9 Peter Crouch 102 279 396 95
10 Nicolas Anelka 99 318 364 125
11 Scott Parker 97 336 368 24
12 Steven Gerrard 94 466 504 120
13 Nick Barmby 94 287 343 53
14 Kevin Nolan 93 360 401 69
15 Jermain Defoe 91 282 413 132

What point are u trying to make?

Sumo the Micky Quinn · Jan 1, 2016

idm1975 said:
What point are u trying to make?

I know his last few years he has been injury prone, but I was surprised at how often Joe Cole hasn't played a full 90 minutes throughout his time in the Prem.

2nd most appearances, out of EVERY premier league player, to come ON & OFF the pitch as a sub.

chiefdave · Jan 1, 2016

Sumo the Micky Quinn said:
I know his last few years he has been injury prone, but I was surprised at how often Joe Cole hasn't played a full 90 minutes throughout his time in the Prem.

2nd most appearances, out of EVERY premier league player, to come ON & OFF the pitch as a sub.

Are those figures right? That would mean in 17 seasons in the PL he's averaged 7.5 complete games a season.

idm1975 · Jan 1, 2016

Look at the other players in there too, dont think it means an awful lot.

Sumo the Micky Quinn · Jan 1, 2016

chiefdave said:
Are those figures right? That would mean in 17 seasons in the PL he's averaged 7.5 complete games a season.

Information provided by http://www.statbunker.com/players/GetHistoryStats?player_id=528&comps_type=-1&dates=-1

Just Priemier League Breakdown

Competition	Clubs	Start	Sub	CO	Off	MP				A	Goals	OG
Premier League 15/16	Aston Villa	-	3	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Premier League 14/15	Aston Villa	3	17	9	3	278	-	-	-	1	1	-
Premier League 13/14	West Ham United	6	23	14	5	740	2	-	-	-	3	-
Premier League 12/13	West Ham United	7	7	4	3	619	2	-	-	-	2	-
Premier League 12/13	Liverpool	-	8	6	1	168	-	-	-	-	1	-
Premier League 10/11	Liverpool	9	17	11	5	796	1	-	1	1	2	-
Premier League 09/10	Chelsea	14	16	12	9	1315	1	-	-	6	2	-
Premier League 08/09	Chelsea	14	-	-	13	972	2	-	-	5	2	-
Premier League 07/08	Chelsea	28	9	5	18	2485	5	-	-	7	7	-
Premier League 06/07	Chelsea	3	11	10	2	462	2	-	-	-	-	-
Premier League 05/06	Chelsea	26	8	8	18	2136	7	-	-	3	8	-
Premier League 04/05	Chelsea	19	11	9	15	1627	5	-	-	1	8	-
Premier League 03/04	Chelsea	18	18	17	16	1648	3	-	-	3	1	-
Premier League 02/03	West Ham United	36	-	-	6	3202	10	-	-	-	4	-
Premier League 01/02	West Ham United	29	1	1	4	2610	5	-	-	3	-	-
Premier League 00/01	West Ham United	24	7	6	4	2209	5	-	-	3	5	-
Premier League 99/00	West Ham United	17	11	5	3	1530	1	-	-	-	1	-
Premier League 98/99	West Ham United	2	10	6	2	306	1	-	-	-	-	-

Start = Total started, = 255
Sub = Started as a sub, =177
CO = Came on, =123
Off = Taken off, =127
MP = Minutes played, =23,103
A = Assists, =33
OG = Own goals . = 0

idm1975 · Jan 1, 2016

Think he has played around 400 times in prem league not to mention the time in france in the top league.

Grendel · Jan 1, 2016

idm1975 said:
Think he has played around 400 times in prem league not to mention the time in france in the top league.

Bit like Tim Sherwood then?

Sumo the Micky Quinn · Jan 1, 2016

idm1975 said:
Think he has played around 400 times in prem league not to mention the time in france in the top league.

Out of 378 premier league games he played a FULL 90 minutes in 128 premier league games.

On that note, a fully fit Joe Cole is not likely to play a full 90 mins much for the rest of the season, but if he can change a game for the better, coming on as a super sub, all the better for CCFC.

idm1975 · Jan 1, 2016

Grendel said:
Bit like Tim Sherwood then?

How many world cups and euros did sherwood play in and how many titles and cups did he win?

Grendel · Jan 1, 2016

idm1975 said:
How many world cups and euros did sherwood play in and how many titles and cups did he win?

Er.....sorry you mentioned 400 Premier games didn't you? Or didn't you?

Joe Cole & Bigi in talks about perm deals (8 Viewers)

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