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Jan in CET (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter dongonzalos
  • Start date Mar 27, 2014
Forums New posts
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #1
As I write this piece my beloved Coventry City sit 18th in the third tier of English football, playing in a vital relegation clash against Stevenage at another team’s ground, 35 miles away from the city who they represent.

No disrespect to Stevenage but only a few short years ago this match would have been viewed as a potential cup banana skin, not a relegation six-pointer.

In January, the club sold our leading goalscorer and his replacements haven’t exactly covered themselves in glory.

Maybe we should be grateful that Callum Wilson was injured and is therefore still able to lead the line, for now at least.

We have several other key players whose contracts are expiring at the end of this season yet there appears to be no effort being made to retain the services of Franck Moussa and Joe Murphy, a pair who must have earned us a dozen points on their own. Also Cyrus Christie appears to have decided that his future lies elsewhere.

Several weeks ago the club published its accounts, trumpeting the fact that they had filed them on time (a legal requirement for all companies yet a special occasion for CCFC).

The accounts make shocking reading, covering the season where City were still at the Ricoh when rental payments were not fully paid yet turnover was down more than £4million, losses were more than £7million, borrowing from the mysterious Cayman Islands-based ARVO up by £5million.

The shareholders (ARVO & SISU investors) owed more than £42million plus interest. Yet when the club is asked some basic questions about these frightening numbers nothing is forthcoming. The Sky Blue Trust even offered to organisea forum where the club could answer supporters’ questions but this was firmly declined.

In that season the interest payments to “investors” including ARVO were £1.8 million, extrapolating forward it would not be unreasonable to assume that soon, if not already, we could be paying out more in interest than we will in player’s wages.

Supporters are understandably concerned about the future of their club yet the silence from Otium is deafening. Instead of answers we get distractions about who said what about who, yet the real issues are quietly ignored. It is hard to see what sort of side we will have on the pitch next season under the turnover-based restriction of financial fair play?

The club is at the lowest ebb I can remember, marooned near the bottom of the third tier, with more than £44m net debt despite having gone through the pain of administration, key players look likely to leave, playing 35 miles from home and having a fan base that has become disillusioned, fragmented and disheartened.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #2
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/coventry-city-fans-zone-how-6884228
 
M

Matty_CCFC

New Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #3
Good article, ..
 

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #4
tis all fucked up
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #5
....fucking hell, when did all this happen?

City, in the 3rd tier??

Club saddled with debt??

Playing in a northants groundshare??

...Wish we'd have known about this sooner....FFS

People often label Liverpool as the self pity city....but with the recent spate of fan-penned articles & "opinions" in the CT... I'm starting to think it may have some competition....


Never mind....time for some Brie

 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #6
jimmyhillsfanclub said:
....fucking hell, when did all this happen?

City, in the 3rd tier??

Club saddled with debt??

Playing in a northants groundshare??

...Wish we'd have known about this sooner....FFS

People often label Liverpool as the self pity city....but with the recent spate of fan-penned articles & "opinions" in the CT... I'm starting to think it may have some competition....


Never mind....time for some Brie

View attachment 3417
Click to expand...

ERR is that Brie ,sugar Puffs and honey ,sounds like a pregnancy Craving .

PS I know It's walnuts really ,Olive Oil??
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #7
its honey

in fact google brie, honey, walnuts. you get the recipe that photo was taken from

http://www.inspiredtaste.net/7238/brie-with-spiced-honey-and-walnuts/
 

blueflint

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #8
jan is spot on in that article can someone with sense from otium please answer the questions
 
A

AJB1983

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #9
blueflint said:
jan is spot on in that article can someone with sense from otium please answer the questions
Click to expand...

Good luck with that....but I'll hazard a guess as a possible response...

"It's all highs charity/acl/CCC/sky blue trusts (delete as appropriate) fault. We've carried out normal business practice in the best interests of the football club that needs to own its own stadium"
 
A

AndreasB

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #10
dongonzalos said:
As I write this piece my beloved Coventry City sit 18th in the third tier of English football, playing in a vital relegation clash against Stevenage at another team’s ground, 35 miles away from the city who they represent.

No disrespect to Stevenage but only a few short years ago this match would have been viewed as a potential cup banana skin, not a relegation six-pointer.

In January, the club sold our leading goalscorer and his replacements haven’t exactly covered themselves in glory.

Maybe we should be grateful that Callum Wilson was injured and is therefore still able to lead the line, for now at least.

We have several other key players whose contracts are expiring at the end of this season yet there appears to be no effort being made to retain the services of Franck Moussa and Joe Murphy, a pair who must have earned us a dozen points on their own. Also Cyrus Christie appears to have decided that his future lies elsewhere.

Several weeks ago the club published its accounts, trumpeting the fact that they had filed them on time (a legal requirement for all companies yet a special occasion for CCFC).

The accounts make shocking reading, covering the season where City were still at the Ricoh when rental payments were not fully paid yet turnover was down more than £4million, losses were more than £7million, borrowing from the mysterious Cayman Islands-based ARVO up by £5million.

The shareholders (ARVO & SISU investors) owed more than £42million plus interest. Yet when the club is asked some basic questions about these frightening numbers nothing is forthcoming. The Sky Blue Trust even offered to organisea forum where the club could answer supporters’ questions but this was firmly declined.

In that season the interest payments to “investors” including ARVO were £1.8 million, extrapolating forward it would not be unreasonable to assume that soon, if not already, we could be paying out more in interest than we will in player’s wages.

Supporters are understandably concerned about the future of their club yet the silence from Otium is deafening. Instead of answers we get distractions about who said what about who, yet the real issues are quietly ignored. It is hard to see what sort of side we will have on the pitch next season under the turnover-based restriction of financial fair play?

The club is at the lowest ebb I can remember, marooned near the bottom of the third tier, with more than £44m net debt despite having gone through the pain of administration, key players look likely to leave, playing 35 miles from home and having a fan base that has become disillusioned, fragmented and disheartened.
Click to expand...


Jan there, talking on behalf OF EVERY SINGLE COVENTRY SUPPORTER
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #11
AndreasB said:
Jan there, talking on behalf OF EVERY SINGLE COVENTRY SUPPORTER
Click to expand...

There won't be many out there who disagree with that
 

Voice_of_Reason

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #12
dongonzalos said:
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/coventry-city-fans-zone-how-6884228
Click to expand...

I'm afraid this is the way football is heading. In the not too distant future there will be a season-long European League which most of the existing Premiership clubs will be founding members whilst the remainder of clubs in the lower leagues will flounder and eventually become of no real importance. It's not just CCFC that is dying, so is football as we know it. I can see many clubs in the lower leagues merging to survive.. fotball has been in a constant change ever since I started watching and supporting 62 years ago. The Football Association and Football League will just "sit back and fiddle as Rome burns" -- do nothing.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #13
Can someone please explain why after going into administration which usually gets rid of any debt, we still have the same debt ?
 
A

AJB1983

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #14
Because we are still owned by the same company, because of the way assets were moved between companies prior to the admin, debts/loans weren't written off, and all the admin process was for was to break the lease....
We'll never know for sure, but had the admin gone ahead under the original acl application on the basis that rent was being illegally withheld then it would have been different.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #15
italiahorse said:
Can someone please explain why after going into administration which usually gets rid of any debt, we still have the same debt ?
Click to expand...

I think because only 1 of the group of companies went into admin. Sky blues sports and leisure ltd, and. Ccfc holdings didn't.

I think most of the money flows down from SBSL, which is why the debt is still there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #16
italiahorse said:
Can someone please explain why after going into administration which usually gets rid of any debt, we still have the same debt ?
Click to expand...

The part of the club with the debt didn't go into admin I believe.

Either that or because our owners bought their own debt ( 75 million) ahem.....

We were left we what would say the genuine debt 30 million plus 10 million loaned by AVRO.

Whilst the other 35 million that no understands was written off.

So basically unless someone was prepared to buy the club for 75 million it was never really for sale. Although it technically was in administration you could say it wasn't really.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #17
So if a company with no assets owes £60K and I say I will buy the company but agree 10p in the pound with its debtors it will cost me £6K. (Normal admin).
The company has no debts.

But in our case we still have the debts.

I'm still unclear.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #18
italiahorse said:
So if a company with no assets owes £60K and I say I will buy the company but agree 10p in the pound with its debtors it will cost me £6K. (Normal admin).
The company has no debts.

But in our case we still have the debts.

I'm still unclear.
Click to expand...

It's because ccfc (like a lot of football clubs) isn't 1 single company but a group of companies. OSB is the best person to answer this. But essentially the club was

Sky blues sports and leisure ltd

Under that ccfc holdings ltd

Then under that ccfc ltd.

Admin caused ccfc ltd debts to be paid/written off, etc, but not SBSL or ccfc holdings debt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #19
You have to look it in two ways at the same time Italia.

Firstly the law treats each company as a separate entity. So when CCFC Ltd went in to administration it had huge debts that were made up of debt owed to its parent company CCFCH, and SBS&L. Although it never actually borrowed directly from ARVO because of ARVO's charge the debt owed by the group was classed as owed by CCFC Ltd. The rest of the debt were basically ACL and HMRC. So it looks like CCFC Ltd had massive debts

The debt was in two kinds. The old original debt that was never written off in the books of CCFC Ltd or CCFCH (after 2007 it didn't really exist in the group even if it showed in individual companies) and the new debt that was money put in from the current group members.

So the second way to look at it is the group debt. The new debt had been sourced from ARVO and SISU investors was put in to SBS&L and OEG and then channelled through to CCFC H then CCFC Ltd. That way when the companies associated with the lease at the Ricoh (CCFC Ltd & CCFCH) went/go ultimately in to liquidation the debts were still owed by SBS&L and OEG to ARVO and SISU investors. Was that a plan ..... well only SISU etc can confirm that one way or another

The real debt has only ever been the amounts owed to SISU investors and ARVO (currently over £42m). The £70m debt was just a quirk of insolvency law I think is fair to say

So day before CCFC Ltd went in to administration the group owed a certain amount.......at the time something like 35m........ take CCFC Ltd out of the equation the next day and the group still owed that same amount £35m. The 70m never was the total debts of the group
 
Last edited: Mar 27, 2014

smouch1975

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2014
  • #20
£42 million, £70 million. You say tomato, I say......
 

spider_ricoh

New Member
  • Mar 28, 2014
  • #21
italiahorse said:
Can someone please explain why after going into administration which usually gets rid of any debt, we still have the same debt ?
Click to expand...

Yeah can someone explain this for me, too?

Just shows what a fallacy the "administration / liquidation" of CCFC Limited was when it's debts appeared to have novated across to other entities, along with the player registrations and other operations. How strange that the ACL lease seems to have been the one thing left behind....
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 28, 2014
  • #22
spider_ricoh said:
Yeah can someone explain this for me, too?

Just shows what a fallacy the "administration / liquidation" of CCFC Limited was when it's debts appeared to have novated across to other entities, along with the player registrations and other operations. How strange that the ACL lease seems to have been the one thing left behind....
Click to expand...

Read OSB's post. Ccfc ltd was at the bottom of the group of companies that made up ccfc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 
A

AJB1983

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 28, 2014
  • #23
stupot07 said:
Read OSB's post. Ccfc ltd was at the bottom of the group of companies that made up ccfc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

Yet was the company registered with the golden ticket to play in the football league...
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 28, 2014
  • #24
That's the area that should really have been investigated further, how suddenly all the debt and things such as player contracts were in other companies and CCFC Ltd was left with the lease.
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • Mar 28, 2014
  • #25
chiefdave said:
That's the area that should really have been investigated further, how suddenly all the debt and things such as player contracts were in other companies and CCFC Ltd was left with the lease.
Click to expand...

Because the FL & FA were played by SISU, they failed to check the paperwork carefully and let a situation develop that should never have occurred.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-league-admits-coventry-city-5741590
 
Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2014

DazzleTommyDazzle

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 28, 2014
  • #26
chiefdave said:
That's the area that should really have been investigated further, how suddenly all the debt and things such as player contracts were in other companies and CCFC Ltd was left with the lease.
Click to expand...

"Standard business practice".
 
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