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James McClean refusing to wear poppy (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Nick
  • Start date Nov 19, 2012
Forums New posts

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #1
Seems like a bit of a silly thing to do and then to wonder why he is getting abuse?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #2
He is within his rights to do so and it is entirely wrong for him to receive abuse too. Surely wearing a poppy is one of personal choice.
 
Last edited: Nov 19, 2012

TrueSkyBlueLiam

Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #3
I think it was a very disrespectful gesture, but at the end of the day, we cant force him to wear one. I just cant believe someone wouldnt want to honour the memories of the men and women who made sure we have the the standard of life we have today. James McClean has gone way down in my opinion, but as i said, no-one can force someone to wear a poppy on their shirt
 
M

Macca

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #4
So it would be o.k not to take part in one of the many minutes silence we have because you don t care about it. Freedom of opinion and speech is fine so long as it includes everybody in every situation
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #5
But he is Irish and many Irish people were killed by the British Army during all the troubles.

'The poppy is especially controversial in Northern Ireland and most Irish Nationalists and Irish Catholics refuse to wear one due to the actions of the British Army during the troubles.'

Most it says. Why the fuss? Personal choice and in no way do I see it as disrespectful.
'
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #6
'Some have criticized the level of compulsion associated with the custom of wearing a poppy, something Channel 4 newsreader Jon Snow has called "poppy fascism".

Columnist Dan O'Neill wrote that "presenters and politicians seem to compete in a race to be first – poppies start sprouting in mid-October while the absence of a poppy is interpreted as absence of concern for the war dead, almost as an unpatriotic act of treachery".Likewise, Jonathan Bartley of the religious think-tank Ekklesia said "public figures in Britain are urged, indeed in many cases, required, to wear ... the red poppy, almost as an article of faith.


There is a political correctness about the red poppy". Journalist Robert Fisk complained that the poppy has become a seasonal "fashion accessory" and that people were "ostentatiously wearing a poppy for social or work-related reasons, to look patriotic when it suited them".


As I say, personal choice and there are valid reasons why people don't wear a poppy.

The 2 minute silence is for all people who have died in conflict.

How do we know that he hasn't had relatives or people his family know killed by the British Army? You and I may respect the Remembrance Sunday and the 2 mins silence, but not everyone feels the same. I would be a lot more annoyed if people didn't observe the silence. The poppy though is just a personal choice.
 

scroobiustom

New Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #7
I personally think the work the British Legion does is more important than weather James McClean decides to wear a poppy embodied SCUMderland shirt.

The column inches this story has received is a little silly - Its time to move on and I feel the death threats is a little insulting given the spirit of the poppy anyway. Just my opinion.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #8
Tis a silly little story.

Only a couple of years ago, 15 of the Premiership clubs chose to wear poppies, 5 didn't.

Personal choice. You can respect the dead without having to wear the symbol.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #9
Looking at it Otis I can see your point.
 

Houchens Head

Fairly well known member from Malvern
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #10
I don't wear a poppy. It's MY personal choice. It's nothing to do with the fact that I'm Irish either. I consider it the same as all the other pushy charities. I will donate to whom I choose to - charities that I want to, not charities that make it fashionable to donate to. I feel the same way towards Children in Need and all those TV "guilt trip" charities. Why do I need to wear a red flower to show I have donated anything? When I donate to the Lifeboat Appeal (one of my favourite charities), I don't have to wear a big plastic boat on my head to show people what I've done! And when I do put something in the Poppy Appeal box, I don't take a poppy. I don't want to!
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #11
Would guess a fair few British Muslims wouldn't wear one either.

As long as people respect the dead I have no problem. We should never make the wearing of any emblem such as this compulsory.

Much ado about nothing stirred by hate filled papers such as the Daily Mail I reckon. I'm pretty sure this lad's intention wasn't to mock the dead. He simply didn't wish to wear the poppy. Not such a big deal when you think about it.
 
M

Macca

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #12
Otis said:
But he is Irish and many Irish people were killed by the British Army during all the troubles.

'The poppy is especially controversial in Northern Ireland and most Irish Nationalists and Irish Catholics refuse to wear one due to the actions of the British Army during the troubles.'

Most it says. Why the fuss? Personal choice and in no way do I see it as disrespectful.
'
Click to expand...

sometimes in life you just have to go along with stuff though don t you? As I say its like when I attend a match and there is a minutes silence for the other teams chairman's wife's dogs brother. Personally I couldn t give a fuck but I don't rattle all the way through it
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #13
But I do think that is different. In that circumstance you would actually be disturbing people while they try to have the 2 mins silence. You would actually be infringing upon their right to have the silence.

Simply not wearing a poppy doesn't have that same effect. That is a personal choice that doesn't infringe upon anyone else's individual right.

Making noise during a silence is completely different and is disrespectful.
 

scroobiustom

New Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #14
I guess it would be different if he had started shouting his mouth - "i aint wearing not f-ing poppy" yadda yadda yadda incidentally Tulisa on x-factor has not worn poppies in the build up to Remembrance Sunday both this year and last year but she seems to have escaped persecution!
 
M

Macca

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #15
Otis said:
But I do think that is different. In that circumstance you would actually be disturbing people while they try to have the 2 mins silence. You would actually be infringing upon their right to have the silence.

Simply not wearing a poppy doesn't have that same effect. That is a personal choice that doesn't infringe upon anyone else's individual right.

Making noise during a silence is completely different and is disrespectful.
Click to expand...

maybe their silence would be infringing my right to not be silent
 
M

Macca

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #16
scroobiustom said:
I guess it would be different if he had started shouting his mouth - "i aint wearing not f-ing poppy" yadda yadda yadda incidentally Tulisa on x-factor has not worn poppies in the build up to Remembrance Sunday both this year and last year but she seems to have escaped persecution!
Click to expand...


thats because she is the darling of the chav masses
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #17
Macca said:
maybe their silence would be infringing my right to not be silent
Click to expand...


What? That's just nonsense. How do you disturb anyone by being silent?
 
M

Macca

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #18
well if anyone has a go at me for not observing the silence then they must be infringing my right to not observe the silence.

you're wasting your time Otis, I ve really got one on me today!
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #19
I will take a step back then and exit the building!
 

coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #20
If McClean was this great patriotic Irishman then surely he would want to remember all the Irish soldiers that were killed in WW1?
 

sw88

Chief Commentator!
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #21
If thats what he chooses then so be it. I choose to wear one, he doesnt! We're all entitled to our own opinions, and to make choices we see necessary. Doesnt make my decision or his decision right or wrong
 

coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #22
sw88 said:
If thats what he chooses then so be it. I choose to wear one, he doesnt! We're all entitled to our own opinions, and to make choices we see necessary. Doesnt make my decision or his decision right or wrong
Click to expand...

I dont think people should be forced to wear one, or even support it.

However I do think it says a lot about him as a man that he refused to wear it. A poppy isn't a political statement, its about remembering those who died whilst protecting others. People who died so that he could have the freedom of choice about whether he wears it or not.

Obviously its down to him if he wears one, I just think anyone who disagrees with what it stands for is either ignorant, or very bitter/twisted.
 

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2012
  • #23
Oh goodness. yes i see what some are saying. Just want to remind a few though that the 'poppy' is a symbolic gesture in honour of all those who lost their lives since the 14-18 war. The fields of flanders is where the poppy grew hence the sybolism.
Irish fought alonside us as British in that war. I can grant a few republican irish not wishing to wear it perhaps but should they not be honouring their heroes from the first war? Is McClean a republican?
Just saying....
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2012
  • #24
Irish neutrality during World War II


The policy of Irish Neutralityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_neutrality during World War II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_IIwas adopted by the parliament of Irelandhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland upon the outbreak of hostilities in Europe. It was maintained throughout the conflict, in spite of several air raids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dublin_in_World_War_IIfrom Nazi Germany.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emergency_(Ireland)
 

CCFC Germany

Active Member
  • Nov 20, 2012
  • #25
It's called democracy + freedom of speech when we are allowed to voice an opinion others might not share.

I do not want to know how many players do wear a poppy that don't give a shit or don't even know what it stands for. I think that's worse.
 

coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Nov 20, 2012
  • #26
<p>
Otis said:
<b>Irish neutrality during World War II</b></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p> <font color="black">The policy of Irish Neutrality during World War II was adopted by the parliament of Ireland upon the outbreak of hostilities in Europe. It was maintained throughout the conflict, in spite of several air raids from Nazi Germany.</font></p>
<p>
Click to expand...

The poppy comes from WW1, a war that Ireland was very much part of.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2012
  • #27
I know. Just saying the Irish remained impartial during WW2 and of course there have been the troubles in Ireland with a lot of Irish very much disliking the British Army. And that the poppy has now become a symbol for all wars since WW2.
 
Last edited: Nov 20, 2012

coundonskyblue

New Member
  • Nov 20, 2012
  • #28
I dont disagree with those reasons Otis, im only talking there about people such as mcclean not understanding what it represents, and being bitter & twisted.

I would be saying the same about anyone here who refused to wear a shamrock on paddys day on the basis of what the ira have done. That would be equally bitter and also ignoring what it represents.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2012
  • #29
I'm sure many people do do that. I have no problem with that either.

I would at a guess think that many Irish people do not wear the poppy because of the Ireland troubles and many British Muslims don't because of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It's their right. A lot of people do unfortunately see the poppy as a symbol of war rather than peace.
 
S

Sutty

Member
  • Nov 20, 2012
  • #30
It's important to also remember that McClean is from the area in Derry where hundreds of people were shot dead by the British Army on Bloody Sunday. A horrible incident and his family would probably be very unhappy if he had worn the poppy.

Sending death threats is absolutely ridiculous. The people we are honouring in a way earned us the right to choose whether to wear a poppy or not, so to stop it being a free choice is also to disrespect their memory in my eyes.
 

IrishSkyBlue

Facebook User
  • Nov 20, 2012
  • #31
He just didn't want to wear it either would I if it was me but doesn't mean I don't respect what dead British soldiers have done for their country were all humans at the end if the day!
 
M

Macca

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 20, 2012
  • #32
I ve always considered the poppy as a symbol of the deaths of men and women in conflict generally wherever that may be and whichever side they are on, military people or otherwise.

Innocent people always get caught up in these things. I bet there were a few people on 9/11 or 7/7 that didn t agree with the foreign policies of the West. Same as people caught up in IRA bombs who may well have been sympathetic to their cause. Innocent people dying in Gaza and as said before people on Bloody Sunday.
 

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 21, 2012
  • #33
Yes macca. the poppy is a symbol only in honouring the dead from all the wars and conflicts since the first world war where it was born from. You can disagree about soldiers in Ireland but that should not stop you paying respects to all the war dead of all or any of thos conflicts whichever side you are on.
It's misunderstood that it represents British soldiers exclusively. Anyone who died for the cause even the secret resistence agents in France who risked their lives and often were caught and killed. I could go on but hey each have an opinion.
 
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