Its all down to tactics. Thorn out (2 Viewers)

italiahorse · Feb 5, 2012

Andy Thorn defensive tactics are costing us results.

Like everybody back for corners and no outlet.
Playing Deegan and Clingan together in midfield ends up with the ball back with the goalkeeper.
Deegan should never be played he continually points to someone else for a pass instead of asking for the ball. If he does get it he can't pass it quickly enough or accurately enough. He can't track players. He's out his depth.
The timing of substitutes is always too late and too slow.
Mcsheffery, Bell and Baker are wasted with our defensive tactics.

The 'nice' Mr Thorn back to Scouting and promote Carsley.

If you don't change something you always get the same.

Suicidal of Bedworth

Otis · Feb 5, 2012

The corner thing does my head in. Not just Thorn though unfortunately. A succession of City managers have done exactly the same thing, though many teams who come to the Ricoh leave one player up.

stupot07 · Feb 5, 2012

The vast majority of managers bring everyone back at corners.

johnniericoh · Feb 5, 2012

I too am continually p----d off with our "free flowing football" grinding to a halt in the final third by repeated sideways/backwards movement despite clear openings towards goal.

This is clearly coached into the team and contributes greatly to our current demise of serious lack of goals lack of points and woeful league position.

Time after time moves break down because of this with one S Clingan the chief culprit.

If the "diamond" is the prime cause then ffs change it !!!

PUSB

oldskyblue58 · Feb 5, 2012

All fair points - and leaving no outlet up the pitch makes no sense to me because we just surrender the ball and pitch.

The biggest issue on the pitch for me though is the absolute lack of a leader. The team needs a strong experienced player to drag them through - Clingan most certainly is not it ! You dont see anyone taking control of the game, enforcing the managers tactics, dragging players out of too deep positions etc.

mrtrench · Feb 5, 2012

"It's all down to tactics is it?" No other factors, just tactics?

Well why don't you take a team of girl guides and lead them up to the Premiership then, using your superior tactics?

Otis · Feb 5, 2012

Most do for sure. We've had a few this seaosn that have left one up though and Reading I think it was, left two up at times.

stupot07 · Feb 5, 2012

johnniericoh said:
I too am continually p----d off with our "free flowing football" grinding to a halt in the final third by repeated sideways/backwards movement despite clear openings towards goal.

This is clearly coached into the team and contributes greatly to our current demise of serious lack of goals lack of points and woeful league position.

Time after time moves break down because of this with one S Clingan the chief culprit.

If the "diamond" is the prime cause then ffs change it !!!

PUSB

We didn't play the "diamond" yesterday.

coop · Feb 5, 2012

I agree with defending corners why have everybody back with no outlet if you leave 3 up front from corners they would pull 4 players back leaving the opposition with less players to attack the corner

SkyBlueScottie · Feb 5, 2012

we have not played "the diamond" for a while even when we were playing it we often switched formations.....

Otis · Feb 5, 2012

We stopped playing the diamond when we found we couldn't afford it anymore.

ohitsaidwalker king power · Feb 5, 2012

stupot07 said:
We didn't play the "diamond" yesterday.

What did we play yesterday then... I couldnt figure it out... ? sheffers wide, Nimely wide, Clingon holding, Deegan sort of advanced, Bell free and wandering.. a centre half at left back, a right back at centre half....:thinking about:

wingy · Feb 5, 2012

The prevailing failure of this season on the pitch is without doubt the individual error ,possibly 70-80 % from the left hand side of defense,Down to lack of Quality ,age ,commitment but most of the goals conceded have been down to poor individual decisions on the pitch

johnniericoh · Feb 5, 2012

stupot07 said:
We didn't play the "diamond" yesterday.

But we have for most of the season resulting in where we are now - ALSO I thought Alex chose CCFC because he was going to play central striker alongside Plattini not as a wide man as of yesterday !!!

PUSB

oldskyblue58 · Feb 5, 2012

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
What did we play yesterday then... I couldnt figure it out... ? sheffers wide, Nimely wide, Clingon holding, Deegan sort of advanced, Bell free and wandering.. a centre half at left back, a right back at centre half....:thinking about:

surely that should make it clear - i think that you have grasped it ........ plus playing a deep 4 : 3 : 3 against a 4:5:1 its makes perfect sense - not!

to be fair though AT didnt have many choices in players available and had to make do

EleanorRigby · Feb 5, 2012

All this tactics and formations crap are just that, crap. If you have 2 wingers like we enjoyed years ago with Humphries and Rees, Graydon and Hutchison, Bennett and Pickering, although not an out and out winger, then you attack from both sides of the pitch and get crosses in, stretch teams and cause problems, all this tip of the diamond , playing in the hole, is just bunkam. The basics of football hasn't changed, get the ball, pass it to one of your players, have width try and get passed the defence, get crosses in and have shots or headers at goal. As for eleven players defending corners more crap. Leave one player up the opposition leave two, leave two up they hold three back, simple.

If the great Brian Clough saw his centre forward defending a corner he'd hit him.

thorn in my side · Feb 5, 2012

EleanorRigby said:
All this tactics and formations crap are just that, crap. If you have 2 wingers like we enjoyed years ago with Humphries and Rees, Graydon and Hutchison, Bennett and Pickering, although not an out and out winger, then you attack from both sides of the pitch and get crosses in, stretch teams and cause problems, all this tip of the diamond , playing in the hole, is just bunkam. The basics of football hasn't changed, get the ball, pass it to one of your players, have width try and get passed the defence, get crosses in and have shots or headers at goal. As for eleven players defending corners more crap. Leave one player up the opposition leave two, leave two up they hold three back, simple.

If the great Brian Clough saw his centre forward defending a corner he'd hit him.

I agree - nothing to do with tactics - everything to do with the failure to do the simple and basic things. We lack leadership on the field. We lack leadership in Thorn. Good scout but no manager.

skybluegod · Feb 5, 2012

IMO i disagree with all of it. thorn doesn't make changes because we are winning,deegan has been great this season imo won so many tackles and always asks for the ball, carsley has the reserves against league 2 reserves no disrespect to him but that does not make him a good manager .

Nick · Feb 5, 2012

Of course it is to do with Tactics, Holloway changed tactics against us and look what happened there? Freedman for Palace changed tactics against us, Howe for Burnley. All changed tactics AGAINST us. Ipswich didn't really need to change tactics as Thorn changed ours to 4-3-3 which meant Nimely and McSheffrey were nowhere near Platt whenever he won the ball (unlike Boro when they were tucked in close and getting onto flick ons)

I don't mind Platt coming back for corners but why not leave Nimely on the half way line?

Nick · Feb 5, 2012

skybluegod said:
IMO i disagree with all of it. thorn doesn't make changes because we are winning

So when he sees other managers putting 4 or 5 up front to go all out, maybe he should change something even if we are winning? He doesn't make changes because we are winning, yet we lose? Does that not say something?

stupot07 · Feb 5, 2012

Nick said:
Of course it is to do with Tactics, Holloway changed tactics against us and look what happened there? Freedman for Palace changed tactics against us, Howe for Burnley. All changed tactics AGAINST us. Ipswich didn't really need to change tactics as Thorn changed ours to 4-3-3 which meant Nimely and McSheffrey were nowhere near Platt whenever he won the ball (unlike Boro when they were tucked in close and getting onto flick ons)

I don't mind Platt coming back for corners but why not leave Nimely on the half way line?

To be fair on the burnley game - it was bigi's sending off that changed the game.

AT changed to 433 after 20 mins because Ipswich were on top and their fullbacks had too much space to get forward. Changing to 433 coincided with us having our best spell in the first half.

Nick · Feb 5, 2012

stupot07 said:
To be fair on the burnley game - it was bigi's sending off that changed the game.

AT changed to 433 after 20 mins because Ipswich were on top and their fullbacks had too much space to get forward. Changing to 433 coincided with us having our best spell in the first half.

So what did he change to at half time?

skybluegod · Feb 5, 2012

Nick said:
So when he sees other managers putting 4 or 5 up front to go all out, maybe he should change something even if we are winning? He doesn't make changes because we are winning, yet we lose? Does that not say something?

the saying is never change a winning side!

Nick · Feb 5, 2012

skybluegod said:
the saying is never change a winning side!

We aren't winning though, are we? Yes, we have won a couple at home, but when are we winning other than that?

Yes, I agree that if we go on a run we can't change the starting lineup / formation but when other managers make changes to formations or strategy that is clearly giving them the advantage over us where it is quite blatent they are going to come back and probably win then surely we need to change something?

The starting line up pretty much picks its self, it is during the game we need to tweak things.

Grendel · Feb 5, 2012

Nick said:
So what did he change to at half time?

Truth is nick whatever logic you apply will be thrown back. The logic for retaining thorn is non existent, he will be gone under new owners or if sisu stay gone at year end.

This is classic King with no clothes syndrome. People have to believe it positives when are none. When the best form of defense is he's still got the dressing room, he would be great if he had some finds, sacking managers gets us nowhere none of these statements are positive defences of thorn but diversionary.

They don't want to face the truth. The same applies to eastwood. Fans want a hero and some poor souls still say he is a 20 goal a season man.

If sisu were liked and accountable fans would not tolerate him. Now to some he is a curious ant-hero battling against cruel oppresive owners. Truth is he is a man well out of his depth and drowning. No one wants to give him a lifeboat but whatever anyone says the game got thorn will soon be up.

stupot07 · Feb 5, 2012

Nick said:
So what did he change to at half time?

Mcsheff and nimely swapped flanks, presumably so they would naturally drift in and get closer to platt....

Nick · Feb 5, 2012

stupot07 said:
Mcsheff and nimely swapped flanks, presumably so they would naturally drift in and get closer to platt....

In the first half though Nimely was tucked in close to Platt? I must admit I was in the CET stand so it was at the other end of the pitch but he was definitely a lot closer in and in the second they were hugging the touch line...

stupot07 · Feb 5, 2012

Nick said:
In the first half though Nimely was tucked in close to Platt? I must admit I was in the CET stand so it was at the other end of the pitch but he was definitely a lot closer in and in the second they were hugging the touch line...

It started with nimely up top with platt and Sheff in the hole with licence to drift out left. But after 20 mins of ipswich play, he pulled Sheff left and nimely right. In fact a lot of our chances came when nimely got into the channel behind the left back.

Gaz · Feb 5, 2012

Andy Thorn is the manager of Coventry city football team.

You really need to get over it

kduffy said:
Truth is nick whatever logic you apply will be thrown back. The logic for retaining thorn is non existent, he will be gone under new owners or if sisu stay gone at year end.

This is classic King with no clothes syndrome. People have to believe it positives when are none. When the best form of defense is he's still got the dressing room, he would be great if he had some finds, sacking managers gets us nowhere none of these statements are positive defences of thorn but diversionary.

They don't want to face the truth. The same applies to eastwood. Fans want a hero and some poor souls still say he is a 20 goal a season man.

If sisu were liked and accountable fans would not tolerate him. Now to some he is a curious ant-hero battling against cruel oppresive owners. Truth is he is a man well out of his depth and drowning. No one wants to give him a lifeboat but whatever anyone says the game got thorn will soon be up.

stupot07 · Feb 5, 2012

In fact it didn't help that the midfield struggled to get on the ball in the second half, meaning that the top 3 were feeding on scraps for long periods.

DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe · Feb 5, 2012

kduffy said:
Truth is nick whatever logic you apply will be thrown back. The logic for retaining thorn is non existent, he will be gone under new owners or if sisu stay gone at year end.

This is classic King with no clothes syndrome. People have to believe it positives when are none. When the best form of defense is he's still got the dressing room, he would be great if he had some finds, sacking managers gets us nowhere none of these statements are positive defences of thorn but diversionary.

They don't want to face the truth. The same applies to eastwood. Fans want a hero and some poor souls still say he is a 20 goal a season man.

If sisu were liked and accountable fans would not tolerate him. Now to some he is a curious ant-hero battling against cruel oppresive owners. Truth is he is a man well out of his depth and drowning. No one wants to give him a lifeboat but whatever anyone says the game got thorn will soon be up.

Ah, the classic King without clothes syndrome!

Sisu_Cockroaches · Feb 5, 2012

I think Thorn should be sacked, for a couple of reasons.

I dont think he is vocal enough in criticising his own players when they are awful. He's like a big cuddly uncle putting his arm around people but thats not necessarily what gets players to improve.

I think a change is good because if we dont do anything now its going to be too late, if not already. How many times do you see a new manager coming in and it just lifts the club. Martin O'Neill at Sunderland for example, same players but different results.

Thorn has not done anything drastically wrong we just need a change because if we dont do anything now we are down. We dont owe him or any player anything, they are getting paid a good wage at the end of the day so i dont feel sorry for them.

SydneySkyBlue · Feb 5, 2012

kduffy said:
Truth is nick whatever logic you apply will be thrown back. The logic for retaining thorn is non existent, he will be gone under new owners or if sisu stay gone at year end.

This is classic King with no clothes syndrome. People have to believe it positives when are none. When the best form of defense is he's still got the dressing room, he would be great if he had some finds, sacking managers gets us nowhere none of these statements are positive defences of thorn but diversionary.

They don't want to face the truth. The same applies to eastwood. Fans want a hero and some poor souls still say he is a 20 goal a season man.

If sisu were liked and accountable fans would not tolerate him. Now to some he is a curious ant-hero battling against cruel oppresive owners. Truth is he is a man well out of his depth and drowning. No one wants to give him a lifeboat but whatever anyone says the game got thorn will soon be up.

There's more logic in not sacking him than there is in sacking him.

No honeymoon period as the players are already giving it their all and a new manager would have little time to get to know the players like Thorn does.

stupot07 · Feb 5, 2012

Sisu_Cockroaches said:
I think Thorn should be sacked, for a couple of reasons.

I dont think he is vocal enough in criticising his own players when they are awful. He's like a big cuddly uncle putting his arm around people but thats not necessarily what gets players to improve.

I think a change is good because if we dont do anything now its going to be too late, if not already. How many times do you see a new manager coming in and it just lifts the club. Martin O'Neill at Sunderland for example, same players but different results.

Thorn has not done anything drastically wrong we just need a change because if we dont do anything now we are down. We dont owe him or any player anything, they are getting paid a good wage at the end of the day so i dont feel sorry for them.

Your forgetting that Sunderland are a team packed full of quality and champions league experience, who were massively under performing and weren't playing for bruce. Add to that MON is an outstanding manager, probably second only to fergie IMO.

Look at forest, Doncaster, Plymouth, northampton - no honeymoon periods there.

Sisu_Cockroaches · Feb 5, 2012

He is only here because we cant afford anyone else and hes probably still on the same wages as he was before.

If he stays we are down, we may go down even if we make a change and sack him but at least we can say we have tried to lift the club with someone new coming in. You know what city fans are like, a couple of early wins for a new manager and people will get behind them and it could spark something.

It makes no odds if we sack him because he is clearly not our long term option anyway so why not just get rid of him.

Its all down to tactics. Thorn out (2 Viewers)

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

CCFC Finance Director

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

CCFC Finance Director

New Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

New Member

Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency