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Israel - Palestinian Conflict (15 Viewers)

  • Thread starter napolimp
  • Start date Oct 9, 2023
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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2023
  • #2,661
I see some commentators on the right are trying to claim today was a draw. The peace march of over 300K people including families, passed by with hardly an incident are apparently as bad as a few thousand gammons fighting the police and disrespecting the cenotaph and everything it stands for.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2023
  • #2,662
I think they always were going to.
 

Como

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2023
  • #2,663
Deleted member 5849 said:
Well... the answer is that Israel withdraws from occupied territories, recognises a Palestinian state, and said Palestinian state and neighbours recognise Israel in return.

The annoying thing is, Israel's relations with some of its neighbours had been improving, and not so long ago it looked entirely possible we would get to a two state solution, so never say never.
Click to expand...

Israel withdrew from Gaza, look what happened.

I do not understand the 2 state solution when it has been made very clear that 1 state is the only one acceptable, from the river to the sea.
 
Reactions: TomRad85 and nicksar
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2023
  • #2,664
Grendel said:
Is this another attempt at humour?
Click to expand...

Oh yeah we'd all like more of this incredible material instead

Grendel said:
Are you over in Gaza as war correspondent for the Basildon Gazette?
Click to expand...
 
Last edited: Nov 12, 2023
Reactions: SkyBlueCharlie9

ccfc1234

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2023
  • #2,665
skybluetony176 said:
I see some commentators on the right are trying to claim today was a draw. The peace march of over 300K people including families, passed by with hardly an incident are apparently as bad as a few thousand gammons fighting the police and disrespecting the cenotaph and everything it stands for.
Click to expand...
I have missed most of the noise surrounding the London events.

Are you saying the peace marches in London have been respectfully carried out with historical monuments respected but today some 'Gammon' were the opposite and have disrespected war memorials.

Any links would be great.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2023
  • #2,666
Como said:
Israel withdrew from Gaza, look what happened.

I do not understand the 2 state solution when it has been made very clear that 1 state is the only one acceptable, from the river to the sea.
Click to expand...
This is nonsense. A 2 state solution would mean an equitable division of both land and of Jerusalem….
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Deleted member 9744 and Sky Blue Pete
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Nov 11, 2023
  • #2,667
Ian1779 said:
This is nonsense. A 2 state solution would mean an equitable division of both land and of Jerusalem….
Click to expand...
And no more incursions by Israel into areas that are not allocated to them, as they had been doing in the West Bank.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2023
  • #2,668
Como said:
Israel withdrew from Gaza, look what happened.

I do not understand the 2 state solution when it has been made very clear that 1 state is the only one acceptable, from the river to the sea.
Click to expand...
There are arguments that a one-state solution is not only preferable to a two-state one, but more feasible as well.
 
Reactions: nicksar

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 11, 2023
  • #2,669
SBT said:
There are arguments that a one-state solution is not only preferable to a two-state one, but more feasible as well.
Click to expand...

For very understandable reasons I can’t see Jews ever wanting a country where Jewish people aren’t guaranteed to be safe from their government and pretty much the only way to do that is an ethnostate which will attract the most right wing nationalistic Israeli politicians and make Palestinians second class citizens. I’m not sure how you get around that.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,670
shmmeee said:
For very understandable reasons I can’t see Jews ever wanting a country where Jewish people aren’t guaranteed to be safe from their government and pretty much the only way to do that is an ethnostate which will attract the most right wing nationalistic Israeli politicians and make Palestinians second class citizens. I’m not sure how you get around that.
Click to expand...
Well as Gideon Levy puts it, the one-state solution already exists - it’s Israel! - the only disagreement is how that state works, and how that state recognises the rights of Jewish Israelis and Arabs alike.

Now obviously that is a pretty fucking major disagreement! And the idea that Israel can function as both a homeland for Jews and Palestinians at once can easily be dismissed as magical thinking. But is it much more magical than thinking the current situation is tenable, or that a two-state solution won’t end up with another war?
 
Reactions: Como

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,671
SBT said:
Well as Gideon Levy puts it, the one-state solution already exists - it’s Israel! - the only disagreement is how that state works, and how that state recognises the rights of Jewish Israelis and Arabs alike.

Now obviously that is a pretty fucking major disagreement! And the idea that Israel can function as both a homeland for Jews and Palestinians at once can easily be dismissed as magical thinking. But is it much more magical than thinking the current situation is tenable, or that a two-state solution won’t end up with another war?
Click to expand...

It will keep ending up in wars if there’s no sense of justice but I don’t see any way Israel can be persuaded to give anything up. Even less so after Oct 7. And all peace ends up with both sides a little pissed off.

You’ve got to hope long term there can be some reckoning with right to return, justice for the actions of both some of the settlers and IDF and of Hamas and the like. That just seems like such a naive distant possibility though.
 

Como

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,672
I do not see any Jews wanting to return.
 
Reactions: nicksar

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,673
What a total mess that was in London yesterday.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,674
Ccfcisparks said:
What a total mess that was in London yesterday.
Click to expand...
Yep, all caused by the government too.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,675
Sick Boy said:
Yep, all caused by the government too.
Click to expand...
Yup. Stoked it, fired it up, whipped up a frenzy.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,676
Sick Boy said:
Yep, all caused by the government too.
Click to expand...

They didn't quite get what they wanted though, fortunately.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,677
Ian1779 said:
This is nonsense. A 2 state solution would mean an equitable division of both land and of Jerusalem….
Click to expand...
Who decides this? Is it imposed by outsiders? If it's imposed then highly likely neither side happy. Imposition of borders/controls are what has led to this mess.
Seems little appetite for a 2 state solution on the Palestinian side.
Who negotiates for the Palestinians - Hamas not likely to be acceptable? Fatah not acceptable to Hamas.
The increasing influence of hard-line Jewish factions makes it difficult for any Israeli government to "sell" a deal that breaks the current status quo.
Will the Israelis even be able to send their own armed forces into the West Bank to forcibly remove the armed settlers? There's around 500000 of them not including Jerusalem.
It's a conflict Israel can't "win". They already left Gaza previously in 2005 because of the problems it was creating for them. Even if they destroy the "terrorist structures" now they will eventually be rebuilt once Israel leaves.
Sadly an equitable solution acceptable to both sides seems almost impossible.
 
Reactions: Terry_dactyl and shmmeee

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,678
Predictably this looks to have backfired on Braverman. What I don’t get is why she of all people thinks she needs to pander to a certain type of person. The type of people who include people who would spit on her and her children in the street if they thought they could get away with it. There was no love for her in the gammon riots. She’s just odd.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,679
tisza said:
If it's imposed then highly likely neither side happy
Click to expand...
Kind of why we're here in the first place, innit.
 
Reactions: tisza

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,680
skybluetony176 said:
Predictably this looks to have backfired on Braverman. What I don’t get is why she of all people thinks she needs to pander to a certain type of person. The type of people who include people who would spit on her and her children in the street if they thought they could get away with it. There was no love for her in the gammon riots. She’s just odd.
Click to expand...

The type of people who voted UKIP I assume?
 
Reactions: TomRad85 and SIR ERNIE
F

Fysnkysc

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,681
This is England now








https://twitter.com/cold957/status/1723600557774975122?t=oQliNMnEh1NMWa-IUZPYRQ&s=19


https://twitter.com/AmyMek/status/1723603172885963200?t=j7FuLWWjXS1Rlyzma5Gkxg&s=19

https://twitter.com/LittleBoats2020/status/1723654114079363521?t=1NgQpqS_ojNiNdM8Bs0lJg&s=19


If you defend this, be embarrassed with yourself. Same goes for if you defend the right wing nutters causing havoc and trouble.

But if you can not see that this is a invasion I can't help you at all.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,682
Kizz said:
This is England now








https://twitter.com/cold957/status/1723600557774975122?t=oQliNMnEh1NMWa-IUZPYRQ&s=19


https://twitter.com/AmyMek/status/1723603172885963200?t=j7FuLWWjXS1Rlyzma5Gkxg&s=19

https://twitter.com/LittleBoats2020/status/1723654114079363521?t=1NgQpqS_ojNiNdM8Bs0lJg&s=19


If you defend this, be embarrassed with yourself. Same goes for if you defend the right wing nutters causing havoc and trouble.

But if you can not see that this is a invasion I can't help you at all.
Click to expand...
Yet it’s fine for you to spout racism and bigotry on this forum against groups of people.
You couldn’t make this nonsense up.
 
Reactions: Ccfcisparks

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,683
Kizz said:
This is England now








https://twitter.com/cold957/status/1723600557774975122?t=oQliNMnEh1NMWa-IUZPYRQ&s=19


https://twitter.com/AmyMek/status/1723603172885963200?t=j7FuLWWjXS1Rlyzma5Gkxg&s=19

https://twitter.com/LittleBoats2020/status/1723654114079363521?t=1NgQpqS_ojNiNdM8Bs0lJg&s=19


If you defend this, be embarrassed with yourself. Same goes for if you defend the right wing nutters causing havoc and trouble.

But if you can not see that this is a invasion I can't help you at all.
Click to expand...
All the violence is awful, but why are you only showing the one side?

There were 300,000 on the march and I don't know how many EDL types. Guessing maybe hundreds, possibly a thousand?

The vast majority of trouble and the vast majority of arrests were from the anti protestor group.
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,684
Kizz said:
This is England now








https://twitter.com/cold957/status/1723600557774975122?t=oQliNMnEh1NMWa-IUZPYRQ&s=19


https://twitter.com/AmyMek/status/1723603172885963200?t=j7FuLWWjXS1Rlyzma5Gkxg&s=19

https://twitter.com/LittleBoats2020/status/1723654114079363521?t=1NgQpqS_ojNiNdM8Bs0lJg&s=19


If you defend this, be embarrassed with yourself. Same goes for if you defend the right wing nutters causing havoc and trouble.

But if you can not see that this is a invasion I can't help you at all.
Click to expand...

Peace march innit.
 
Reactions: nicksar and Fysnkysc

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,685
Otis said:
All the violence is awful, but why are you only showing the one side?

There were 300,000 on the march and I don't know how many EDL types. Guessing maybe hundreds, possibly a thousand?

The vast majority of trouble and the vast majority of arrests were from the anti protestor group.
Click to expand...
He recently said that people from Africa and the Middle East have “ruined the western world”.
 
Reactions: Ccfcisparks and Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,686
SIR ERNIE said:
Peace march innit.
Click to expand...
Every other march has passed off really peacefully.

Why did it kick off yesterday? Because the likes of the Daily Mail and Suella Braverman whipped everyone up into a frenzy.

Nearly all the arrests and trouble yesterday was from the far right mob who turned up looking for trouble.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176, chiefdave, Deleted member 9744 and 1 other person
F

Fysnkysc

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,687
Otis said:
All the violence is awful, but why are you only showing the one side?

There were 300,000 on the march and I don't know how many EDL types. Guessing maybe hundreds, possibly a thousand?

The vast majority of trouble and the vast majority of arrests were from the anti protestor group.
Click to expand...
Because this is a Palestinian post?
Why would I share right wing bs here? I edit the comment to say my part of the right wing crazy.

Also the videos I shared are not just from yesterday. There is hundreds more.

The right wing are labeled hooligans and non-peaceful protest (true),

But the pro-palestine are labeled peaceful protesters (false), they're racist and just as crazy as the right wingers if not more.
 
F

Fysnkysc

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,688
Sick Boy said:
He recently said that people from Africa and the Middle East have “ruined the western world”.
Click to expand...
Ever been to Paris? Or even Italy? Or Spain? 100s of thousands of them everywhere, robbing stealing making more trash than the gypsies that use to park behind asda Walsgrave.

They're horrible people if you come here to better your life good on you but respect the rules.

These do not they have no rules.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849, Ccfcisparks, Sick Boy and 2 others
F

Fysnkysc

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,689
Sick Boy said:
Yet it’s fine for you to spout racism and bigotry on this forum against groups of people.
You couldn’t make this nonsense up.
Click to expand...
You say I'm racist but I'm far from it , your definition of racism is clearly wrong.
 
Reactions: rondog1973

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,690
Kizz said:
Ever been to Paris? Or even Italy? Or Spain? 100s of thousands of them everywhere, robbing stealing making more trash than the gypsies that use to park behind asda Walsgrave.

They're horrible people if you come here to better your life good on you but respect the rules.

These do not they have no rules.
Click to expand...
I live in Italy and you’re talking shite.
 
F

Fysnkysc

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,691
Otis said:
Every other march has passed off really peacefully.

Why did it kick off yesterday? Because the likes of the Daily Mail and Suella Braverman whipped everyone up into a frenzy.

Nearly all the arrests and trouble yesterday was from the far right mob who turned up looking for trouble.
Click to expand...
Just a giant fucking lie, 3 out of the clips I sent are not even from yesterday, every protest they're causing issues. So get your head out you ass and open your eyes.
 
Reactions: SIR ERNIE

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,692
Kizz said:
You say I'm racist but I'm far from it , your definition of racism is clearly wrong.
Click to expand...
You clearly are racist, stupid or both.
 
F

Fysnkysc

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,693
Sick Boy said:
I live in Italy and you’re talking shite.
Click to expand...
, Italy is full of Africans, pickpocketing and phone grabbing. You clearly live away from where these are all located.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,694
Kizz said:
, Italy is full of Africans, pickpocketing and phone grabbing. You clearly live away from where these are all located.
Click to expand...
I live within 20 minutes walk of a major city centre. I’d rather go on my own experience of living here than your “made up facts”.
 
F

Fysnkysc

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 12, 2023
  • #2,695
Sick Boy said:
You clearly are racist, stupid or both.
Click to expand...
No I just have other opinions, not even going to argue with who's racist and not would shock you if you actually realised my skin colour .
 
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