Israel - Palestinian Conflict (6 Viewers)

Deleted member 9744 · Nov 8, 2023

Nick said:
Savage as it sounds, is children dying due to conflict a new thing? Is it only now that it's fashionable and people can make content for their social media about it?

Are the kids in Africa not as fashionable?

I get that people care that kids are dying, just not why people are only so bothered when they get a coach laid on and some likes on social media / put a Palestine flag in their profile. Is it due to changing media where it's rammed down everybody throats as soon as they turn the TV on or open social media?

So you still think the problem here is people putting flags on social media rather than an act of terrorism in Israel and a humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza?

As for it being 'rammed down our throats', do you not appreciate the global importance of what is happening, even if you couldn't care less about the plight of innocent people? Is your argument that you don't care about other people unless it affects you? If so bear in mind one outcome of what is happening now is a likely increase in global terrorism, not just in Israel, and we will without doubt be a target.

Como · Nov 8, 2023

It would certainly help if the release of the Hostages was front and central.

And pulling down posters of them, well not exactly a good look.

Grendel · Nov 8, 2023

I’m sure it’s not a sign of what’s to come at the weekend

Police guard Rochdale cenotaph after graffiti and damage to wreaths reported

Two teenagers being charged with public nuisance offences and in another incident ‘Free Palestine’ has been sprayed on monument

amp.theguardian.com

Ian1779 · Nov 8, 2023

Nick said:
Savage as it sounds, is children dying due to conflict a new thing? Is it only now that it's fashionable and people can make content for their social media about it?

Are the kids in Africa not as fashionable?

I get that people care that kids are dying, just not why people are only so bothered when they get a coach laid on and some likes on social media / put a Palestine flag in their profile. Is it due to changing media where it's rammed down everybody throats as soon as they turn the TV on or open social media?

You’re talking bollocks. You spend your life being contrary to the point you just embarrass yourself.

Grendel · Nov 8, 2023

Ian1779 said:
You’re talking bollocks. You spend your life being contrary to the point you just embarrass yourself.

It’s odd Ian as I’ve never recalled you ever really making any observations about the persecution of Christians as an example in the Middle East

Ian1779 · Nov 8, 2023

Grendel said:
It’s odd Ian as I’ve never recalled you ever really making any observations about the persecution of Christians as an example in the Middle East

That’s probably fair to be honest, and you could probably add in the persecution of Muslim groups by the Chinese which is largely missed.
It’s certainly not intentional, and partly down to a lack of information about these things… but I don’t dispute it.

That said, it doesn’t detract from the genocide that is currently happening.

Deleted member 9744 · Nov 8, 2023

Grendel said:
It’s odd Ian as I’ve never recalled you ever really making any observations about the persecution of Christians as an example in the Middle East

I haven't seen you express any concern about the plight of the people in Gaza.

Nick · Nov 8, 2023

Deleted member 9744 said:
So you still think the problem here is people putting flags on social media rather than an act of terrorism in Israel and a humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza?

As for it being 'rammed down our throats', do you not appreciate the global importance of what is happening, even if you couldn't care less about the plight of innocent people? Is your argument that you don't care about other people unless it affects you? If so bear in mind one outcome of what is happening now is a likely increase in global terrorism, not just in Israel, and we will without doubt be a target.

Where have I said that is the problem?

My point was why aren't people who care for kids dying / humanity / mass deaths not really that arsed about the same thing happening in Africa over the past how many years?

Nick · Nov 8, 2023

Ian1779 said:
You’re talking bollocks. You spend your life being contrary to the point you just embarrass yourself.

How am I talking bollocks? I am just using facts.

You said about kids being killed, how many millions have been killed in Africa and still are every day? Are Palestine kids better than African kids or more worthy? Why aren't people marching for them?

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 8, 2023

Nick said:
How am I talking bollocks? I am just using facts.

You said about kids being killed, how many millions have been killed in Africa and still are every day? Are Palestine kids better than African kids or more worthy? Why aren't people marching for them?

OK, set up the march and if I like the cause I'll join you

Deleted member 9744 · Nov 8, 2023

Nick said:
Where have I said that is the problem?

My point was why aren't people who care for kids dying / humanity / mass deaths not really that arsed about the same thing happening in Africa over the past how many years?

It's possible to care about more than one thing. And in order to care about a humanitarian crisis happening at the moment does require people to know about everything else that is happening in the world or has happened in the past. You seem to think it is weird to care about disasters like this. I am sorry but the weird thing is not to care about the plight of people other than myself in my view.

Nick · Nov 8, 2023

Deleted member 9744 said:
It's possible to care about more than one thing. And in order to care about a humanitarian crisis happening at the moment does require people to know about everything else that is happening in the world or has happened in the past. You seem to think it is weird to care about disasters like this. am sorry but the weird thing is not to care about the plight of people other than myself in my view.

It's not really a disaster, there are 2 sets of cunts in this example killing innocent people.

You are demanding people express concern for it but I am only asking why is this more important than another conflict where just as many kids get killed?

Is it because of the religions involved? Is it just lack of awareness (This is where the ramming down throats comes in). It's being said so many people want to "march" because they care about the innocent people dying.

Nick · Nov 8, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
OK, set up the march and if I like the cause I'll join you

So Ian can't say how I'm talking bollocks then?

Grendel · Nov 8, 2023

Deleted member 9744 said:
I haven't seen you express any concern about the plight of the people in Gaza.

And I haven’t seen you express concern about death camps in China for Muslims or the Middle East slaughter of Christians so touché really

Grendel · Nov 8, 2023

It is also hardly helping the argument when people like Naz Shah a self confessed racist speaks in defence of Palestine

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 8, 2023

Grendel said:
And I haven’t seen you express concern about death camps in China for Muslims or the Middle East slaughter of Christians so touché really

You know, I remember when somebody lost a bet to you and you chose a Donkey charity, they were particularly ridiculous in saying that you should have chosen a children's charity as picking donkeys effectively showed you didn't care about children.

The same kind of applies here. An ah but, a what if, doesn't stop a cause being valid.

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 8, 2023

Grendel said:
It is also hardly helping the argument when people like Naz Shah a self confessed racist speaks in defence of Palestine

Tommy Robinson being keen on Brexit didn't stop non racists being in favour.

Deleted member 9744 · Nov 8, 2023

Nick said:
It's not really a disaster, there are 2 sets of cunts in this example killing innocent people.

You are demanding people express concern for it but I am only asking why is this more important than another conflict where just as many kids get killed?

Is it because of the religions involved? Is it just lack of awareness (This is where the ramming down throats comes in). It's being said so many people want to "march" because they care about the innocent people dying.

It's a disaster for the innocent people who are neither involved in the terrorist acts by Hammas nor Israel's actions.

I am not demanding anyone express concern, although I do think it is weird not to care. You are the one complaining about people who do express concern and empathy.

Ian1779 · Nov 8, 2023

Nick said:
How am I talking bollocks? I am just using facts.

You said about kids being killed, how many millions have been killed in Africa and still are every day? Are Palestine kids better than African kids or more worthy? Why aren't people marching for them?

You are using selective facts to take your ‘contrary’ position.
Every child life is worthwhile, and no children should be killed in conflict. The idea that people calling for a ceasefire in Palestine don’t care about the lives of African children is absurd and has fuck all to do with joining a popularity bandwagon, which is essentially what you are implying.

It’s the position you take with literally anything like this - like a shit Devil’s advocate.

Grendel · Nov 8, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
You know, I remember when somebody lost a bet to you and you chose a Donkey charity, they were particularly ridiculous in saying that you should have chosen a children's charity as picking donkeys effectively showed you didn't care about children.

The same kind of applies here. An ah but, a what if, doesn't stop a cause being valid.

When you look who were the first to sign this EDM it’s the likes of Burgon, Sultana, Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott. These openly have backed Hamas and defended it as a non terrorist organisation and in fact freedom fighters. They are bred from the school of anti semitism that prevailed under the GLC and Ken Livingston

Hamas openly admit they will not honour a cease fire so this is a demand for Israel alone to stop while the missies fly the other way

How could any responsible government or an opposition in waiting sanction that?

SBT · Nov 8, 2023

Nick said:
Where have I said that is the problem?

My point was why aren't people who care for kids dying / humanity / mass deaths not really that arsed about the same thing happening in Africa over the past how many years?

There are all kinds of reasons - the British government’s support for Israel, the UK’s historical involvement in this conflict, the sheer scale of the killing, the implications for broader (in)stability in the Middle East, the global solidarity of Jews or Muslims with the Israeli or Palestinian people…all kinds of reasons why people living here would care more about this than comparable stuff happening elsewhere.

Grendel · Nov 8, 2023

SBT said:
There are all kinds of reasons - the British government’s support for Israel, the UK’s historical involvement in this conflict, the sheer scale of the killing, the implications for broader (in)stability in the Middle East, the global solidarity of Jews or Muslims with the Israeli or Palestinian people…all kinds of reasons why people living here would care more about this than comparable stuff happening elsewhere.

The British government will support Israel regardless who is actually in power won’t it?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Nov 8, 2023

Grendel said:
When you look who were the first to sign this EDM it’s the likes of Burgon, Sultana, Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott. These openly have backed Hamas and defended it as a non terrorist organisation and in fact freedom fighters. They are bred from the school of anti semitism that prevailed under the GLC and Ken Livingston

Hamas openly admit they will not honour a cease fire so this is a demand for Israel alone to stop while the missies fly the other way

How could any responsible government or an opposition in waiting sanction that?

Well, if Israel didn't think Hamas would honour a ceasefire then if they agree to it, and Hamas don't stick to it, then effectively Israel can turn round and say 'told you so' and have a strengthened argument for their current actions and could return to them without the same level of condemnation they currently have.

But without exploring that it just makes you look murderous and vindictive, bombing residential areas and safe corridors you've agreed to. The Israeli govt is a democratically chosen and internationally recognised govt, and so should be held up to the standards of one.

Grendel · Nov 8, 2023

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Well, if Israel didn't think Hamas would honour a ceasefire then if they agree to it, and Hamas don't stick to it, then effectively Israel can turn round and say 'told you so' and have a strengthened argument for their current actions and could return to them without the same level of condemnation they currently have.

But without exploring that it just makes you look murderous and vindictive, bombing residential areas and safe corridors you've agreed to. The Israeli govt is a democratically chosen and internationally recognised govt, and so should be held up to the standards of one.

Well parliament disagrees with you so I guess most MPs are murderous and vindictive but those who admit they believe Hamas are a legitimate organisation and admit to being anti Semite such as Naz Shah are good guys

Cool

Grendel · Nov 8, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
Tommy Robinson being keen on Brexit didn't stop non racists being in favour.

Including ironically certain politicians from the hard left who supported this EDM

Of course Robinson will support Israel as he’s anti Muslim - in the same way the hard left will back Palestine as they are anti a Jewish State

Deleted member 9744 · Nov 8, 2023

Grendel said:
Well parliament disagrees with you so I guess most MPs are murderous and vindictive but those who admit they believe Hamas are a legitimate organisation and admit to being anti Semite such as Naz Shah are good guys

Cool

The same Parliament that doesn't agree with you on Russia and none of the MPs have come out in support of the terrorist organisation Wagner.

Nick · Nov 8, 2023

Ian1779 said:
You are using selective facts to take your ‘contrary’ position.
Every child life is worthwhile, and no children should be killed in conflict. The idea that people calling for a ceasefire in Palestine don’t care about the lives of African children is absurd and has fuck all to do with joining a popularity bandwagon, which is essentially what you are implying.

It’s the position you take with literally anything like this - like a shit Devil’s advocate.

So you don't think there is any sort of bandwagon / people going to be using it to push their own views etc etc? (On either side).

I was referring to the Save the Children website which was mostly counting from Afghanistan, Yemen, South Sudan, Central African Republic, Democratic Republic of Congo, Syria, Iraq, Mali, Nigeria and Somalia. It was kids who die due to war and it's much more.

My point is how many are due to how much certain things are pushed onto people in this day and age? You have videos of people telling others which brands they should boycott getting tens of thousands of views, for example. In the age of the "content creators" online, it's very much about bandwagons. Same as social media demanding that companies make statements or do gestures etc etc.

Grendel · Nov 8, 2023

Deleted member 9744 said:
The same Parliament that doesn't agree with you on Russia and none of the MPs have come out in support of the terrorist organisation Wagner.

This is a deflecting argument and I hate to break it to you but many who signed this will not agree with the views on Ukraine and Russia expressed on here - it’s a bizarre argument

Como · Nov 8, 2023

As Hamas have said this is just one battle in a much longer war, any Ceasefire would inevitably be temporary. I do not know if they see one now as tactically advantageous.

Deleted member 9744 · Nov 8, 2023

Grendel said:
This is a deflecting argument and I hate to break it to you but many who signed this will not agree with the views on Ukraine and Russia expressed on here - it’s a bizarre argument

You think they support Wagner?

SBT · Nov 8, 2023

Grendel said:
The British government will support Israel regardless who is actually in power won’t it?

Well it’s not much of a protest if you’re only calling for things that were going to happen anyway

SBT · Nov 8, 2023

Nick said:
My point is how many are due to how much certain things are pushed onto people in this day and age? You have videos of people telling others which brands they should boycott getting tens of thousands of views, for example. In the age of the "content creators" online, it's very much about bandwagons. Same as social media demanding that companies make statements or do gestures etc etc.

Are you playing dumb or are you really stumped as to why people choose to focus on some issues that are meaningful to them, as opposed to every issue on the planet at the same time?

Yes, some of those people are influenced by what they see on social media. Are you saying you’re not?

Grendel · Nov 8, 2023

Deleted member 9744 said:
You think they support Wagner?

No idea

Grendel · Nov 8, 2023

SBT said:
Well it’s not much of a protest if you’re only calling for things that were going to happen anyway

Well this then is a protest against the government and the opposition - I don’t think the vast majority care either way - perhaps you could show an opinion poll - oh sorry they don’t count in your world do they

Deleted member 9744 · Nov 8, 2023

Grendel said:
No idea

I am fairly sure non of them do.

Israel - Palestinian Conflict (6 Viewers)

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