Israel - Palestinian Conflict (16 Viewers)

Evo1883 said:

I don't care tbh

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Can I get an evo seal of approval badge and certificate please?

clint van damme said:

Can I get an evo seal of approval badge and certificate please?

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You can , nobody else

Life is all about cause and effect. Israel has wilfully constructed an apartheid state within Gaza. Violent resistance throughout history has consistently been the way people have sought change.

What hamas did was abhorrent and should be condemned at every turn however…

2.2 million people living in a state whereby a government whom they cannot vote for controls 5 out of 6 borders, controls water supply, energy supply etc.

The Palestinians are the victims here and anybody that thinks otherwise are deluded or wilfully ignorant.

The elephant in the room with all of this is that it’s another example of colonial / post colonial failure, arbitrarily drawing lines on maps to divide territory that should never have been britains in the first place.

Also louder for the people at the back

You can be anti the Israeli government without being a terrorist sympathiser or anti semitic


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ms639 said:

Life is all about cause and effect. Israel has wilfully constructed an apartheid state within Gaza. Violent resistance throughout history has consistently been the way people have sought change.

What hamas did was abhorrent and should be condemned at every turn however…

2.2 million people living in a state whereby a government whom they cannot vote for controls 5 out of 6 borders, controls water supply, energy supply etc.

The Palestinians are the victims here and anybody that thinks otherwise are deluded or wilfully ignorant.


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Well... I'd say everybody is the victims.

If you really wanted to do general black and white then Britain's the baddies for dumping a group that has traditionally been oppressed and victimised into an area where somebody else called it home, and into an area where they'd be almost universally reviled and hated too! Of course it's more complex than that, especially post world war two. Maybe the USA are the baddies for not providing an area among their vast lands? Maybe we have to accept, to move forward, that the foundation of Israel was a maybe naive attempt to find a solution to a big problem that needed solving, but that was maybe unsolvable in itself. Every action has an effect and all that.

Nobody comes out the winner in this. You can see why Israel develops a siege mentality and a need to defend itself, you can see why its neighbours are less than impressed and can see why they are not happy now being oppressed and occupied (and of course from a certain perspective, some would consider themselves occupied from the very formation of Israel - that of course is not the fault of the settlers looking for safety and a safe haven to call home, any more than it is the people displaced for them)... but of course Israel still needs that siege mentality or it'd be wiped from the face of the earth.

The solution? We looked like we were getting somewhere when the PLO morphed from terrorists to diplomats, and a two-state solution but... there were too many entrenched in the concept of needing to 'win' for it to gain the traction it needed so here we are, where acts of violence from both sides pass without comment because they're the everyday, and every so often it *really* explodes like now.

So you understand why people on both sides become rather more hardline than they would if they were in a country such as Britain, but it won't be solved until the everyday people get the voice, that it's recognised the people just wanting to work a living, provide for their family and be content are the ones that suffer, time and time again.

And they won't be helped until people talk, openly, about what to do without having their entrenched positions from the start.

Possible? Not yet, that's for sure - but never say never!

Had this pop up on my feed, not much changes does it.


In fact just this week all members apart from the US, UK and Russia voted in favour of a UN Security Council resolution calling for a humanitarian pauses to deliver aid to Gaza, the US actually voting against to veto it.

Evo1883 said:

But as I stated clint and il still stand buy it .. loads wouldn't just come out and say it , the hate for israel runs that deep , there will be plenty on this forum , there are over 7000 of us

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That's purely your opinion based on a single person's statement. Where's your evidence?

You're accusing thousands of people you've never met and don't know, of something pretty offensive.

I could just as easily say that I think that there's a hate for Muslims that runs deep. And based on one or two posters in this thread I could claim there are plenty here who feel that way but won't say it.

I wouldn't though, because most people don't like being accused of racism/anti-Semitism/Islamophobia, especially when there's literally no evidence to support it.

Evo1883 said:

In a room full of 100 people if 1 says they are racist , I'd hazard a guess there's plenty that hold some racist opinions yes .

This isn't rocket science

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Cool. You're a poster here, and at least one other poster has expressed a racist opinion at some point.

Therefore I think you're a racist. I don't need any actual evidence of your racism, you're in the room, I know there must be some more racists here, and I think it's you. You don't mind do you?

This is like the old Tommy Cooper joke about one in four people in the world being Chinese. I'll let you Google it.

duffer said:

Cool. You're a poster here, and at least one other poster has expressed a racist opinion at some point.

Therefore I think you're a racist. I don't need any actual evidence of your racism, you're in the room, I know there must be some more racists here, and I think it's you. You don't mind do you?

This is like the old Tommy Cooper joke about one in four people in the world being Chinese. I'll let you Google it.

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That's fine , problem is duffer , who is calling who a racist ?

I'm saying there will be racists in the 100 not pointing to you directly..

Therefore I have to ask , what on earth was all that writing for and how did it get 3 likes ?

I just want to say I disagree with duffer.

I’m fairly sure it’s a Tim Vine joke.

Anyways apologies to @Evo1883 , who I also think it's a decent poster most of the time, but is dead wrong here imho.

Anyway, back to the issues, I watched an interview yesterday that made a very good point (again imho). The interviewee, might have been an NGO or UN type, said that the country that holds the key to resolving all this is America.

The point he made was that the only time in recent years when Israel has been close to discussing a two state solution is when America has made its financial and military support (both of which are very substantial) has been contingent on negotiations occurring.

I don't know where this leaves us at the moment, but I suspect not in a good place given America's reluctance to support any kind of humanitarian efforts (beyond the twenty trucks which were themselves delayed).

Evo1883 said:

That's fine , problem is duffer , who is calling who a racist ?

I'm saying there will be racists in the 100 not pointing to you directly..

Therefore I have to ask , what on earth was all that writing for and how did it get 3 likes ?

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Are you offended by being called a racist, based on literally no evidence, by simply being present in a group of people? That's what you're doing here.

Now be honest, you don't like it.

It's a lot of writing because I'm trying to offer a considered, reasoned opinion rather than just chucking something out there without thought, which I'm afraid is what I think you've done here. Are you upset that others might agree with me?

Evo1883 said:

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Don't care what you think? This is the usual response when someone gets called out and can't defend their point of view. Easier than admitting they might not have thought it through.

duffer said:

Are you offended by being called a racist, based on literally no evidence, by simply being present in a group of people? That's what you're doing here.

Now be honest, you don't like it.

It's a lot of writing because I'm trying to offer a considered, reasoned opinion rather than just chucking something out there without thought, which I'm afraid is what I think you've done here. Are you upset that others might agree with me?

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No disrespect , saying there's a possibility more people will think like the racist is not calling you a racist .. so I'm not sure where you're going with it

duffer said:

Are you offended by being called a racist, based on literally no evidence, by simply being present in a group of people? That's what you're doing here.

Now be honest, you don't like it.

It's a lot of writing because I'm trying to offer a considered, reasoned opinion rather than just chucking something out there without thought, which I'm afraid is what I think you've done here. Are you upset that others might agree with me?

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The haha emoji is basically the same as the don't care response. That is "I've said something daft, I'm struggling to defend it", so I'll hide behind a laughing emoji. Understood.

duffer said:

The haha emoji is basically the same as the don't care response. That is "I've said something daft, I'm struggling to defend it", so I'll hide behind a laughing emoji. Understood.

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The haha response is because you're talking about something that hasn't happened

But please carry on

I'm sat here ready to defend it all day

Me saying 1 person backs hamas over israel , there will be more , ISNT saying "duffer backs terrorists " FACT.

So what is it that I've said that is incorrect ?

Let's do this

Evo1883 said:

No disrespect , saying there's a possibility more people will think like the racist is not calling you a racist .. so I'm not sure where you're going with it

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Politely, you're not saying there's a possibility, you started off with there must be people on here quietly supporting Hamas without any evidence of it being true. That made no sense to me and it's quite an unfair accusation in my book. Apologies again for getting drawn into it. I'm leaving it there.

duffer said:

Politely, you're not saying there's a possibility, you started off with there must be people on here quietly supporting Hamas without any evidence of it being true. That made no sense to me and it's quite an unfair accusation in my book. Apologies again for getting drawn into it. I'm leaving it there.

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And politely there are 7000 members here and we already have a poster say they back hamas over israel .. saying there are going to be more isn't calling YOU a hamas supporter directly..

So again , what are you on about

You said I've said something daft , where

Evo1883 said:

Me saying 1 person backs hamas over israel , there will be more , ISNT saying "duffer backs terrorists " FACT.

So what is it that I've said that is incorrect ?

Let's do this

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One question.

What actual evidence do you have that a single person that you've accused of supporting Hamas in this, of the 7000 posters does so?

Houchens Head said:

Me!

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@duffer




So I ask you again , what have I said that's daft

Evo1883 said:

Evo1883 said:

@duffer

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So I ask you again , what have I said that's daft

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HH I think we accepted. Anyone else?

duffer said:

HH I think we accepted. Anyone else?

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Ah that's OK then , accepted

There will be more , no doubt

And you fucking lot are coming at me ? Time to get fucked me thinks

Come at me with Ukraine come at me with Israel

People questioning israels right to even exist on here and 1 guy backs hamas and the neck on you lot to come at me ?

Fuck me , what a wanky mindset

Evo1883 said:

@duffer

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So I ask you again , what have I said that's daft

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Tarring so many people with the same brush, obviously.

Seems to me that throughout the entire thread, criticism of Israel and their military response, has been somehow interpreted as support for Hamas.

You can think you are right all your want, Evo, that's your prerogative, but just about everyone else thinks you are wrong.

I think we need to stop going around in circles on this and move on.

It's fine if you think you are right. Just thinking you are right doesn't make you right though.

I hope the attacks from both sides will stop soon and a start to a pathway can commence as a matter of urgency. Not counting my chickens though.

Otis said:

Tarring so many people with the same brush, obviously.

Seems to me that throughout the entire thread, criticism of Israel and their military response, has been somehow interpreted as support for Hamas.

You can think you are right all your want, Evo, that's your prerogative, but just about everyone else thinks you are wrong.

I think we need to stop going around in circles on this and move on.

It's fine if you think you are right. Just thinking you re right doesn't make you right though.

I hope the attacks from both sides will stop soon and a start to a pathway can commence as a matter of urgency. Not counting my chickens though.

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Wrong about what ?

Evo1883 said:

And you fucking lot are coming at me ? Time to get fucked me thinks

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Evo1883 said:

Ah that's OK then , accepted

There will be more , no doubt

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How many more would you say? And again your evidence for this is?

Sorry mate, I'm happy to leave it there if you are.

Evo1883 said:

Wrong about what ?

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Let's leave it there. You know what.

Let's just leave it and move on.

duffer said:

How many more would you say? And again your evidence for this is?

Sorry mate, I'm happy to leave it there if you are.

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Ofcourse you want to leave it there

Otis said:

Let's leave it there. You know what.

Let's just leave it and move on.

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No

Tell me I'm wrong , wrong about what

Thinking more people would want hamas to beat Israel?

Evo1883 said:

Ofcpurse you want to leave it there

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Evidence then please?

duffer said:

Evidence then please?

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Evidence they don't , go ask all 7000 , 1 in 217 who has viewed this thread has admitted to it , the odds are against you

That's how it works , a big sample size too

Telling me I'm wrong to suggest more people would back hamas over israel is the same as suggesting you're right for telling me its not possible ..


You've also NO evidence it's an opinion , but fuck me the odds are against you

So again i ask , what have I said that's daft .............

Try make me look silly and pile on