Israel - Palestinian Conflict (14 Viewers)

duffer · Oct 20, 2023

clint van damme said:
Saudis issue statement criticising Israel for allowing Qatari money to reach Hamas.

It's come from Saudi so who knows if its true but I suspect it is.

It seems broadly accepted that Israel were happy to see Hamas in control of Gaza because it undermined the two state solution that the more moderate Palestinian Authority were willing to negotiate over.

Like Israel's current government, Hamas isn't prepared to accept a two state solution, they want it all for themselves.

I linked to a Times of Israel story earlier, so this isn't just a Muslim narrative. It's in the western press too. It doesn't make it right in any way at all, but to some degree Israel has been bitten by a monster it has been feeding.

It's a hideous mess, and it's going to take a long time to unravel, imho. In the meantime the innocents on both sides (and elsewhere) suffer and the jihadist nutters have the best recruiting tool they could ever hope for.

clint van damme · Oct 20, 2023

Not sure if this was one of the Rest is politics episodes linked but a decent interview with Yuval Harari

https://spotify.link/0q0w2M0v3Db

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Oct 20, 2023

duffer said:
It seems broadly accepted that Israel were happy to see Hamas in control of Gaza because it undermined the two state solution that the more moderate Palestinian Authority were willing to negotiate over.

Like Israel's current government, Hamas isn't prepared to accept a two state solution, they want it all for themselves.

I linked to a Times of Israel story earlier, so this isn't just a Muslim narrative. It's in the western press too. It doesn't make it right in any way at all, but to some degree Israel has been bitten by a monster it has been feeding.

It's a hideous mess, and it's going to take a long time to unravel, imho. In the meantime the innocents on both sides (and elsewhere) suffer and the jihadist nutters have the best recruiting tool they could ever hope for.

Israel has been bitten by the monster, but there is a part of me that wonders if the far-right contingent of their government, inc. Netanyahu almost want to be bitten to some extent because it will given them the excuse to do stuff like they're doing and go vastly over what is a proportionate response. Of course they don't want innocent Israeli's to die, but if it gives them the opportunity to take over further parts of the Palestinian areas then it's not an invitation they're going to turn down.

tisza · Oct 20, 2023

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Israel has been bitten by the monster, but there is a part of me that wonders if the far-right contingent of their government, inc. Netanyahu almost want to be bitten to some extent because it will given them the excuse to do stuff like they're doing and go vastly over what is a proportionate response. Of course they don't want innocent Israeli's to die, but if it gives them the opportunity to take over further parts of the Palestinian areas then it's not an invitation they're going to turn down.

Cynical option is they knew something was going to happen but not on the scale it did. Hugely unpopular Govt trying to divert attention from widespread domestic discontent. Mossad is one of the best intelligence agencies in the world and seems almost impossible they knew nothing.

skybluetony176 · Oct 20, 2023

Apparently Hamas has released 2 hostages of American citizenship. Hopefully more will now follow.

Otis · Oct 21, 2023

BBC News - Palestinians under attack as settler violence surges in the West Bank

Palestinians under attack as Israeli settler violence surges in the West Bank

Palestinian families say they have been intimidated and displaced in the wake of Hamas's attack on Israel.

www.bbc.co.uk

Very sad to hear. I think we are just going to get more and more reprisals from both sides.

Evo1883 · Oct 21, 2023

Grendel said:
Israel - Palestinian Conflict

Well no you said “far right western leaders might agree with me” - they all do including Keir Starmer as an opposition leader - excluding Norway - every EU country leader agrees with me That’s correct isn’t it? It might be, but Mr Netanyahu famously threatened 'war' against New Zealand for...

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

I guess I was right after all , he just came out and said it , no fucks given .

clint van damme · Oct 21, 2023

Otis said:
BBC News - Palestinians under attack as settler violence surges in the West Bank

Palestinians under attack as Israeli settler violence surges in the West Bank

Palestinian families say they have been intimidated and displaced in the wake of Hamas's attack on Israel.

www.bbc.co.uk

Very sad to hear. I think we are just going to get more and more reprisals from both sides.

They displaced a load of Bedouins yesterday.
It also seems to have gone under the radar but the first people hamas killed in their terrorist attacks were Bedouins who weren't even technically in Israel where the attacks took place so they're a bit of a forgotten victim of this conflict.

clint van damme · Oct 21, 2023

Evo1883 said:
I guess I was right after all , he just came out and said it , no fucks given .

Not sure what you mean?

Evo1883 · Oct 21, 2023

clint van damme said:
Not sure what you mean?

I said there will be people on here that will want hamas to prevail over israel , got shouted at for it .. then houchen just comes out and says it

Evo1883 said:
Are you actually going to tell me that there are no people on here that wouldnt happily see hamas prevail over israel ?

I'd say thats very naive

But as I stated , he's just come out and said it , many wouldn't

clint van damme · Oct 21, 2023

Evo1883 said:
I said there will be people on here that will want hamas to prevail over israel , got shouted at for it .. then houchen just comes out and says it

Oh right, when I click the link it's taking me to one of my posts.
Yeah can't agree with HH on that but he's very much in the minority

Otis · Oct 21, 2023

clint van damme said:
Not sure what you mean?

I think I know what he means. He means a lot of us are very sympathetic to Hamas, but just don't come out and actually say it.

Complete nonsense of course and he did say he was quitting this thread.

Evo1883 · Oct 21, 2023

clint van damme said:
Oh right, when I click the link it's taking me to one of my posts.
Yeah can't agree with HH on that but he's very much in the minority

But as I stated clint and il still stand buy it .. loads wouldn't just come out and say it , the hate for israel runs that deep , there will be plenty on this forum , there are over 7000 of us

Evo1883 · Oct 21, 2023

Otis said:
I think I know what he means. He means a lot of us are very sympathetic to Hamas, but just don't come out and actually say it.

Complete nonsense of course and he did say he was quitting this thread.

I think my point has been proven otis .. and the only thing about houchen is he actually just came out and said it .. there's going to be plenty .

It's great when you get confirmation

Otis · Oct 21, 2023

Evo1883 said:
But as I stated clint and il still stand buy it .. loads wouldn't just come out and say it , the hate for israel runs that deep , there will be plenty on this forum , there are over 7000 of us

I am simply not buying this "loads" at all.

Barely anyone.

Said it before and I'll say it again, I cannot stand Hamas.

Evo1883 · Oct 21, 2023

Otis said:
I am simply not buying this "loads" at all.

Barely anyone.

Said it before and I'll say it again, I cannot stand Hamas.

And ive said it before mate , this isn't meant to be an argument , there will be plenty
They just won't say it out loud ..

Anyway a circle we've been around , but with proof this time

Otis · Oct 21, 2023

Evo1883 said:
I think my point has been proven otis .. and the only thing about houchen is he actually just came out and said it .. there's going to be plenty .

It's great when you get confirmation

Not been proven at all, Evo. Just because one person said it, you can't then say that lots of other people feel the same way. That's pure guesswork.

My take on it is that hardly anyone has said they are sympathetic towards Hamas, because they simply aren't.

Not going to go round in circles again, but you are doing a hell of a lot of assuming.

clint van damme · Oct 21, 2023

Evo1883 said:
But as I stated clint and il still stand buy it .. loads wouldn't just come out and say it , the hate for israel runs that deep , there will be plenty on this forum , there are over 7000 of us

I might be wrong to speak for others on this forum, but I believe the majority of contributors do not support hamas.
And yesterday I linked a podcast interview with Yuval Noah Hari, a well known but moderate Israeli who was very scathing of Hamas but who also agrees with my POV, Netanyanhu and his cronies have to go as well. Something I know you don't agree with me on.

Edit - just to be clear, when I say Netanyanhu has to go, I mean removed from office, not anything sinister! And I believe it will happen when the dust settles on all of this.

Otis · Oct 21, 2023

Evo1883 said:
And ive said it before mate , this isn't meant to be an argument , there will be plenty
They just won't say it out loud ..

Anyway a circle we've been around , but with proof this time

No proof at all

One poster.

Let's leave it there. It's really daft

Evo1883 · Oct 21, 2023

Otis said:
Not been proven at all, Evo. Just because one person said it, you can't then say that lots of other people feel the same way. That's pure guesswork.

My take on it is that hardly anyone has said they are sympathetic towards Hamas, because they simply aren't.

Not going to go round in circles again, but you are doing a hell of a lot of assuming.

I'm assuming because it's that taboo , people won't come out and say it and wouldn't even when pressed .. I still stand by what I said.

I agree though, we've been here but houchen proved the point

Otis · Oct 21, 2023

Evo1883 said:
I'm assuming because it's that taboo , people won't come out and say it and wouldn't even when pressed .. I still stand by what I said.

I agree though, we've been here but houchen proved the point

Glad you're happy with your "proof"

Evo1883 · Oct 21, 2023

It's like getting angry at somebody who caught your missus cheating rather than the missus who is cheating ..

Not my problem lads , there are people on here would rather hamas prevail over israel ..

Now proven

clint van damme · Oct 21, 2023

Evo1883 said:
I'm assuming because it's that taboo , people won't come out and say it and wouldn't even when pressed .. I still stand by what I said.

I agree though, we've been here but houchen proved the point

I don't think he does, in the same way I wouldn't say you're secretly cheering on the killing of civilians because one poster, Kizz, who's views are more aligned with yours does.

Evo1883 · Oct 21, 2023

clint van damme said:
I don't think he does, in the same way I wouldn't say you're secretly cheering on the killing of civilians because one poster, Kizz, who's views are more aligned with yours does.

Which views of kierans align with mine mate ? Curious

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 21, 2023

Evo1883 said:
I'm assuming because it's that taboo , people won't come out and say it and wouldn't even when pressed .. I still stand by what I said.

I agree though, we've been here but houchen proved the point

One person saying it proves lots of people won't say it?

Otis · Oct 21, 2023

clint van damme said:
I don't think he does, in the same way I wouldn't say you're secretly cheering on the killing of civilians because one poster, Kizz, who's views are more aligned with yours does.

Exactly.

Let's just lump all the people not condemning Israel with Kizz.

It's a nonsense. Glad Evo is happy he thinks he's been proved right though.

Because if he thinks it, it has to be true.

I am not going to answer anymore on this point, because it is beyond ridiculous.

Sky Blue Pete · Oct 21, 2023

It’s not support one group or another group
The ongoing situation with the West Bank and Gaza has been criminal for decades
What Hamas terrorists did was abhorrent
What Israel government backed bombers are doing is abhorrent
What Biden and sunak did was terrible - their language was the language of children. I’m embarrwssed

I have no problem with demonstrations and the vast majority of the free Palestine ones I’ve seen have been about just that with pockets of horrendous behaviour ripping abducted kids pics off walls or intimidating aggression

Twitter is a cesspit of right and wrong with nuance whatsoever

Where are our statesmen and women who will speak with gravitas and sensitivity and genuine concern for international law and seek a just solution

Just so shit

Evo1883 · Oct 21, 2023

Otis said:
Glad you're happy with your "proof"

Proof is confirmed with admission surely

Otis · Oct 21, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
One person saying it proves lots of people won't say it?

Yup. Seemingly.

The world is an even stranger place than I previously thought.

Evo1883 · Oct 21, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
One person saying it proves lots of people won't say it?

Yes wisdom, houchen is unique

Otis · Oct 21, 2023

Evo1883 said:
Proof is confirmed with admission surely

Okay,

So you have a room of 100 people.

One of these admits to being a racist. So you deem that there must then also be loads of other racists amongst the 100, because if there's one, there's loads, right?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 21, 2023

Evo1883 said:
Yes wisdom, houchen is unique

One person saying something proves lots of people won't say something?

I mean, that's a nonsense isn't it, much like the extrapolation to extremes.

And what kind of assertion is it to say aha you're not saying you support Hamas, therefore you do really!

clint van damme · Oct 21, 2023

Evo1883 said:
Which views of kierans align with mine mate ? Curious

You've been more supportive of the current Israeli action in Gaza. As he has, but he's been far more ambivalent in his attitude to the consequences it will have on normal civillians.

Otis · Oct 21, 2023

Evo1883 said:
Yes wisdom, houchen is unique

Yay! You are getting it at last.

Or is Kizz not unique then?

Evo1883 · Oct 21, 2023

Otis said:
Okay,

So you have a room of 100 people.

One of these admits to being a racist. So you deem that there must then also be loads of other racists amongst the 100, because if there's one, there's loads, right?

In a room full of 100 people if 1 says they are racist , I'd hazard a guess there's plenty that hold some racist opinions yes .

This isn't rocket science

Israel - Palestinian Conflict (14 Viewers)

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