In it for the long term? (8 Viewers)

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 20, 2013

The very fact we're negotiating/negotiated a deal to return to the Higgs centre is interesting.

It's been represented here as what happens when people stand up to SISU but there's another way of looking at it.

You're not here for the long term, not here for the football club and it's all about the property baby? The obvious thing to close down is the academy. Academies only work as a long term investment, if it's short term cost cutting you're after, it'd be the first thing to go as it wouldn't affect the immediate basis of the team, would allow you to save cash, and scarper more cheaply if you don;t get what you want.

So, the fact our owners continue to fund the academy... that surely shows they have an interest in the football side, and not just as using the club as a battering ram for other deals, doesn't it?

st john · Oct 20, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
The very fact we're negotiating/negotiated a deal to return to the Higgs centre is interesting.

It's been represented here as what happens when people stand up to SISU but there's another way of looking at it.

You're not here for the long term, not here for the football club and it's all about the property baby? The obvious thing to close down is the academy. Academies only work as a long term investment, if it's short term cost cutting you're after, it'd be the first thing to go as it wouldn't affect the immediate basis of the team, would allow you to save cash, and scarper more cheaply if you don;t get what you want.

So, the fact our owners continue to fund the academy... that surely shows they have an interest in the football side, and not just as using the club as a battering ram for other deals, doesn't it?

More smoke & mirrors to disguise their real motives?

bigfatronssba · Oct 20, 2013

I thought they got funding for the academy, and the FA told them unless they get back to the higgs sharpish they would lose it?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 20, 2013

The funding only matches what the club puts in, doesn't cover the cost.

italiahorse · Oct 20, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
The funding only matches what the club puts in, doesn't cover the cost.

Our biggest income is the players we sell.
SISU might as well fkuc that up as well.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 20, 2013

italiahorse said:
Our biggest income is the players we sell.

If you intend to be at a club long term, and intend to put a sustainable footballing structure in place, then yes...

letsallsingtogether · Oct 20, 2013

You can also look at in another way. Without the Academy were would we get our squad players from? where would we be able to sell any for a profit if need be?
It is alright getting players for free but they are free for a reason? wouldn't want a whole team of them.

Just a thought not an Opinion.

Deleted member 5849 said:
The very fact we're negotiating/negotiated a deal to return to the Higgs centre is interesting.

It's been represented here as what happens when people stand up to SISU but there's another way of looking at it.

You're not here for the long term, not here for the football club and it's all about the property baby? The obvious thing to close down is the academy. Academies only work as a long term investment, if it's short term cost cutting you're after, it'd be the first thing to go as it wouldn't affect the immediate basis of the team, would allow you to save cash, and scarper more cheaply if you don;t get what you want.

So, the fact our owners continue to fund the academy... that surely shows they have an interest in the football side, and not just as using the club as a battering ram for other deals, doesn't it?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 20, 2013

letsallsingtogether said:
You can also look at in another way. Without the Academy were would we get our squad players from?

The free transfer list, non contract players, loanees.

where would we be able to sell any for a profit if need be?

If this is a gamble to distress ACL, buy the Ricoh and having once owned the Ricoh not bother about it on footballing terms, then what does the development of 14 year old kids matter? They won't develop in time to sell for a profit before this dastardly non footballing plan has come to fruition or failed. Better, therefore, to stop funding the academy, so you can use more of the funds you do have holding on for the main prize in the game of chicken.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Oct 20, 2013

Or another view is that perhaps despite the frequent statements that SISU will not sell, they may understand that the value of the club would be substantially reduced if the academy was closed.

Maybe keeping options open?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 20, 2013

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
Or another view is that perhaps despite the frequent statements that SISU will not sell, they may understand that the value of the club would be substantially reduced if the academy was closed.

Now that is a fair point.

If true however, it would surely point to the fact they understand the value of the club would be substantially increased if a stadium was included in the sale price also?

It'd show an awareness of the value of infrastructure beyond league position and brand, for sure...

ecky · Oct 20, 2013

Wait for January we will see what sisu's ambitions are?

Danceswithhorses · Oct 20, 2013

SISU were forced to go back to the Higgs centre, because they would lose funding otherwise, as the Higgs centre has the only local 3g surface...unless of course they would like to look for one in Northampton, and complete the move, lock stock and barrel ?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 20, 2013

Danceswithhorses said:
SISU were forced to go back to the Higgs centre, because they would lose funding otherwise, as the Higgs centre has the only local 3g surface...unless of course they would like to look for one in Northampton, and complete the move, lock stock and barrel ?

They were only forced to go back if they wanted to keep an academy.

the funding only matches what the club puts in.

If the club didn't want to put money into an academy, there was no forcing to be done, as there was no need for any funding.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Oct 20, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
Now that is a fair point.

If true however, it would surely point to the fact they understand the value of the club would be substantially increased if a stadium was included in the sale price also?

It'd show an awareness of the value of infrastructure beyond league position and brand, for sure...

I don't think there's any dispute that stadium ownership would increase the value of the club - the question is, by how much?

Or to be precise, would building a 12k to 18 k (I've lost track of what the current plan is) stadium for £20m to £25m, increase the value of the club by substantially more than the cost of the stadium?

Or to put the question another way, would a third or fourth division club really go for £40m or £50m?

I struggle to see that.

skybluetony176 · Oct 20, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
The very fact we're negotiating/negotiated a deal to return to the Higgs centre is interesting.

It's been represented here as what happens when people stand up to SISU but there's another way of looking at it.

You're not here for the long term, not here for the football club and it's all about the property baby? The obvious thing to close down is the academy. Academies only work as a long term investment, if it's short term cost cutting you're after, it'd be the first thing to go as it wouldn't affect the immediate basis of the team, would allow you to save cash, and scarper more cheaply if you don;t get what you want.

So, the fact our owners continue to fund the academy... that surely shows they have an interest in the football side, and not just as using the club as a battering ram for other deals, doesn't it?

at some point its reasonable to assume that they want to sell the club as a going concern their has to be meat in the sandwich and a return to the higgs is a cheap filling. the academy has produced the heart beat of the current squad and without the academy their is no lineage to this. so for once it shows good business acumen on shitsu's behalf, but has nothing to do with being in it for the long haul and certainly nothing to do with football acumen.

Astute · Oct 21, 2013

They tried to go elsewhere. They were told the new place was not up to standard and would lose funding. The funding is free money. The academy players are on much less money than decent free signings. How many free signings have we just made against academy players in the squad? They got an offer to go back. They listened. They went back.

How about listening to us fans? This would also bring in much more money if they brought us home. Start talks on bringing our club home.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 21, 2013

The funding requires them to spend money. Of course they'd lose funding if they closed the academy, but they'd also save money as a result.

14 year olds wouldn't be all that handy for the coming season.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 21, 2013

skybluetony176 said:
at some point its reasonable to assume that they want to sell the club as a going concern their has to be meat in the sandwich

...such as a football stadium...

Astute · Oct 21, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
The funding requires them to spend money. Of course they'd lose funding if they closed the academy, but they'd also save money as a result.

14 year olds wouldn't be all that handy for the coming season.

But where have most of our present players come from? How much higher would the wage bill be if we never had our academy players? What would have happened to the academy players if they would have shut the academy?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 21, 2013

That's not the point I'm making...

sky blue john · Oct 21, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
The funding requires them to spend money. Of course they'd lose funding
if they closed the academy, but they'd also save money as a result.

14 year olds wouldn't be all that handy for the coming season.

I didn't realize the academy was made up of only 14 year olds !!!!

Astute · Oct 21, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
That's not the point I'm making...

I know it isn't. You are talking about 14 year olds that cost a little money to develop. They will be looking more at the players coming through and the cheap wages that comes with it. The players they will be able to sell and make money on. Something that makes our club more attractive to investors. They also get a lot of free money to go towards developing talent and paying their wages. These players also don't come under FFP rules so helps them to stay in Northampton if needed.

But all you see is the 14 year olds

Waggott is a wise person to be in charge. They will have seen this and will listen to him. Waggott and the academy is about all SISU have got right so far. Waggott even knows how to find a good manager.

shmmeee · Oct 21, 2013

Heard a rumour the other day that despite playing/using the facilities the club are yet to sign anything with the Higgs, or in fact pay them anything at all.

Take it with a pinch of salt, but would love to get PWKH's take.

sky blue john · Oct 21, 2013

shmmeee said:
Heard a rumour the other day that despite playing/using the facilities the club are yet to sign anything with the Higgs, or in fact pay them anything at all.

Take it with a pinch of salt, but would love to get PWKH's take.

Disgraceful !
Using an internet forum to spread idle gossip. wink wink.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 21, 2013

Astute said:
Waggott is a wise person to be in charge. They will have seen this and will listen to him. Waggott and the academy is about all SISU have got right so far. Waggott even knows how to find a good manager.

if you're not interested in the football club however, this is all a total irrelevance.

Astute · Oct 21, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
if you're not interested in the football club however, this is all a total irrelevance.

They are only interested in making money. Would you disagree with this?

There is a decent value in the academy and they will make money out of it. Would you disagree with this?

Half of the cost of the academy is paid for them. Would you disagree with this?

They think fook all of us fans but want our money. Would you disagree with this?

shmmeee · Oct 21, 2013

By all accounts Waggot is a decent bloke with football at heart. Maybe just maybe we accidentally employed a really genuine bloke and the football stuff is unrelated to Joy and Tim's roadshow?

Warwickhunt · Oct 21, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
The free transfer list, non contract players, loanees.

If this is a gamble to distress ACL, buy the Ricoh and having once owned the Ricoh not bother about it on footballing terms, then what does the development of 14 year old kids matter? They won't develop in time to sell for a profit before this dastardly non footballing plan has come to fruition or failed. Better, therefore, to stop funding the academy, so you can use more of the funds you do have holding on for the main prize in the game of chicken.

Where do you think our future income is going to come from then? As it stands OTIUM have committed to fund the club through this year and will at some stage want to bring in cash and whilst we are at sixfields its certainly not via tickets or F & B. Callum wilson & Conor Thomas & fleck are becoming saleable assets and would not be surprised to see one or two of them taken by the premiership clubs with a view to buying them and loaning them back to us until tthe end of the season. £2million would be just about right i would say.

shmmeee · Oct 21, 2013

£1m or less would buy you any of our team IMO.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 21, 2013

Warwickhunt said:
Where do you think our future income is going to come from then?

Future income from the club is totally irrelevant if you're only interested in the ground, and nothing but the ground.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 21, 2013

Astute said:
They are only interested in making money. Would you disagree with this?

There is a decent value in the academy and they will make money out of it. Would you disagree with this?

Half of the cost of the academy is paid for them. Would you disagree with this?

They think fook all of us fans but want our money. Would you disagree with this?

Would you agree that if you have no interest in the football club, paying money to maintain a football academy is a waste of cash?

After all, it was high on the list of cost cutting potentials for first Robinson and his board, then the early SISU board...

fernandopartridge · Oct 21, 2013

Astute said:
They are only interested in making money. Would you disagree with this?

There is a decent value in the academy and they will make money out of it. Would you disagree with this?

Half of the cost of the academy is paid for them. Would you disagree with this?

They think fook all of us fans but want our money. Would you disagree with this?

That isn't the point. The academy will make money but only in the long term.

As for half of the costs being met, it that something specific to SISU?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 21, 2013

fernandopartridge said:
That isn't the point. The academy will make money but only in the long term.

Thank God for that!

So far only |Mr. Dazzle's come up with any coherant argument as to why you might keep an academy if not interested in the club But his argument hinges on the desire to sell the club...

Astute · Oct 21, 2013

fernandopartridge said:
That isn't the point. The academy will make money but only in the long term.

As for half of the costs being met, it that something specific to SISU?

Long term? If they sell any of the players for what they are worth they will be into profit. You could also say they are now in profit also as no transfer fees were involved and the players are on low wages.

The deal isn't specific to SISU. But not many clubs have an academy to the standard as we have including what Higg's have helped them with.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 21, 2013

Astute said:
But not many clubs have an academy to the standard as we have.

Exactly!

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