If we get promoted (1 Viewer)

BrisbaneBronco · Feb 18, 2013

Question

If we do go up this season. Will this improve our financial situation and by how much(approx).
I may be alone on this, but I have a sneaky suspicion that last seasons relegation was planned by SISU to get rent reduced and stem losses.
So if we go up, then surely ACL will expect us to pay higher rent and we are back to square one.
OSB, you are the expert in these matters. So will promotion and higher rent put us in a better position financially than we are now.

Grendel · Feb 18, 2013

BrisbaneBronco said:
Question

If we do go up this season. Will this improve our financial situation and by how much(approx).
I may be alone on this, but I have a sneaky suspicion that last seasons relegation was planned by SISU to get rent reduced and stem losses.
So if we go up, then surely ACL will expect us to pay higher rent and we are back to square one.
OSB, you are the expert in these matters. So will promotion and higher rent put us in a better position financially than we are now.

The average rent in the Championship is £220,000 so our £400,000 "offer" is still double the average.

In that league we will be far less competitive but general revenue will clearly improve including some TV rights.

Deliberate relegation is a conspiracy theory about as likely as Elvis still driving a double decker bus on the moon.

BrisbaneBronco · Feb 18, 2013

Grendel said:
The average rent in the Championship is £220,000 so our £400,000 "offer" is still double the average.

In that league we will be far less competitive but general revenue will clearly improve including some TV rights.

Deliberate relegation is a conspiracy theory about as likely as Elvis still driving a double decker bus on the moon.

Yes but what about higher player wages?

WillieStanley · Feb 18, 2013

BrisbaneBronco said:
Yes but what about higher player wages?

I think all Championship clubs bar a few are having to cut back on wages to something similar to what we are paying now. I wouldn't have thought wages will be more of an issue than they are already. After last years onslaught, it will take a long time before we reach the ridiculous levels we were at previously. I think we'd get a decent pay out from simply playing the play-off final let alone winning it!! I think if we don't achieve promotion, a play off final is key to our push next season.

Sky Blue Kid · Feb 18, 2013

Approx £5m for promotion place, tv rights and better sponsorships(Kit etc). Nobody knows for certain what the recent rent offer was, imo it was south of the 400k mentioned in a earlier post. So a £5m "Kickstart" should set wheels in motion for a double promotion push, but will any of it actually be used. That is the real question.

Grendel · Feb 18, 2013

Sky Blue Kid said:
Approx £5m for promotion place, tv rights and better sponsorships(Kit etc). Nobody knows for certain what the recent rent offer was, imo it was south of the 400k mentioned in a earlier post. So a £5m "Kickstart" should set wheels in motion for a double promotion push, but will any of it actually be used. That is the real question.

The rent is £400,000 that is a fact -- still outrageous even by championship standards,

dongonzalos · Feb 18, 2013

Grendel said:
The average rent in the Championship is £220,000 so our £400,000 "offer" is still double the average.

In that league we will be far less competitive but general revenue will clearly improve including some TV rights.

Deliberate relegation is a conspiracy theory about as likely as Elvis still driving a double decker bus on the moon.

Do you acknowledge there is a 150k rebate
Making the rent 250?

Grendel · Feb 18, 2013

dongonzalos said:
Do you acknowledge there is a 150k rebate
Making the rent 250?

No its £400,000

RoboCCFC90 · Feb 18, 2013

BrisbaneBronco said:
Question

If we do go up this season. Will this improve our financial situation and by how much(approx).
I may be alone on this, but I have a sneaky suspicion that last seasons relegation was planned by SISU to get rent reduced and stem losses.
So if we go up, then surely ACL will expect us to pay higher rent and we are back to square one.
OSB, you are the expert in these matters. So will promotion and higher rent put us in a better position financially than we are now.

Shocking negativity.. The correct termonlolgy is actually "When" we get promoted.

BrisbaneBronco · Feb 18, 2013

Grendel said:
No its £400,000

So 400k based on league 1 status. What will ACL expect us to pay in the championship
600-800k?

dongonzalos · Feb 18, 2013

I am under the impression that championship wages are nearly double what we are paying in league one.

What is our wage bill
Double it how does that compare to the loss in TV rights.
How much have our attendances dropped.

Does it suit SISU when it comes to rent negotiations to make reference to the league one average.

Are they in a stronger position when they are having relative success on the pitch yes.

We're they told no investment in the team to make it competitive then no chance in negotiations.

Could they have made a competitive team in the championship with this budget.

Has joy made reference to the fact they have invested in a successful team to the council and are now asking the council to do their part.

Either they planned it last January (Tim's arrival & Joy getting more hands on) or they have made the absolute most if it.

dongonzalos · Feb 18, 2013

Grendel said:
No its £400,000

So there is no 150k rebate?

Grendel · Feb 18, 2013

dongonzalos said:
So there is no 150k rebate?

That's not what the statement says no it says match day costs. Rent is a fixed amount. I have explained my understanding of the statement. No one has yet flagged that it is in error.

Jack Griffin · Feb 18, 2013

This might help....

BrisbaneBronco · Feb 18, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
This might help....

[/QUOTE

So by looking at this table, wages in championship are 3 times those in league 1

RoboCCFC90 · Feb 18, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
This might help....

So the average weekly wage works out for £4,000 for Championship players and £1404 for League One players, I would say most of our players are pushing towards Championship wages..

oldskyblue58 · Feb 18, 2013

You would have to think that without major additional funds then CCFC would struggle.

Say we got the match day income estimate £2m, say there was the additional league income and TV money (TF said dropping from Championship to L1 was worth £3.7m in that respect). That would give us 5.7m extra income, say average crowd went up to 18k that would be an extra £3m over the season....... this season income circa 5.2m (excl player sales) that gives total income £13.9m

Costs wise (only info we have is historical so any of this is just a guess but past years provide some indication of likely costs) - well with wages of £10m previously we struggled, but lets say we increased the wages bill to 9m, direct costs are 1m, other overheads historically have been £3m excl rent, say rent is 400K, I think there will be interest to pay on loans/finance say £1m ....... without too much thought thats a loss already

Add to that the fact that many of our players are not Championship standard and new ones would need to be brought in (hence why our wages bill would have to be higher)..... that requires further money from somewhere if we are to purchase players. It isnt a straight forward proposition

we could be better off than that of course ........... but it isnt a given........... and i wouldnt bet your mortgage on it

Its hard not to portray this in a negative way........... promotion would be great for the fans.......... it could provide impetus and could really take off in which case things could be better than what I put above. But it will require some net investment in the team ............. and we like many other teams in reality rely on people having money to burn on a football team.

BrisbaneBronco · Feb 18, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
You would have to think that without major additional funds then CCFC would struggle.

Say we got the match day income estimate £2m, say there was the additional league income and TV money (TF said dropping from Championship to L1 was worth £3.7m in that respect). That would give us 5.7m extra income, say average crowd went up to 18k that would be an extra £3m over the season....... this season income circa 5.2m (excl player sales) that gives total income £13.9m

Costs wise (only info we have is historical so any of this is just a guess but past years provide some indication of likely costs) - well with wages of £10m previously we struggled, but lets say we increased the wages bill to 9m, direct costs are 1m, other overheads historically have been £3m excl rent, say rent is 400K, I think there will be interest to pay on loans/finance say £1m ....... without too much thought thats a loss already

Add to that the fact that many of our players are not Championship standard and new ones would need to be brought in (hence why our wages bill would have to be higher)..... that requires further money from somewhere if we are to purchase players. It isnt a straight forward proposition

we could be better off than that of course ........... but it isnt a given........... and i wouldnt bet your mortgage on it

Its hard not to portray this in a negative way........... promotion would be great for the fans.......... it could provide impetus and could really take off in which case things could be better than what I put above. But it will require some net investment in the team ............. and we like many other teams in reality rely on people having money to burn on a football team.

Thanks for yr reply.

You would hope that the average gate would be more than 18k based on feel good factor following promotion.
Regarding wages, we could just keep the same players and try to wing it to see if we can stay up, so no investment in new players. Bonuses would have to be paid to this seasons players based on success. The existing players would no doubt want more money for playing at a higher level, but maybe not as high as the average.
Not sure whether ACL would agree to 400k rent in the championship either.
Then there is shirt sponsorship which would be higher if we were in the championship. Also, we would be more saleable as a Championship Club.

WillieStanley · Feb 18, 2013

BrisbaneBronco said:
Thanks for yr reply.

You would hope that the average gate would be more than 18k based on feel good factor following promotion.
Regarding wages, we could just keep the same players and try to wing it to see if we can stay up, so no investment in new players. Bonuses would have to be paid to this seasons players based on success. The existing players would no doubt want more money for playing at a higher level, but maybe not as high as the average.
Not sure whether ACL would agree to 400k rent in the championship either.
Then there is shirt sponsorship which would be higher if we were in the championship. Also, we would be more saleable as a Championship Club.

I would say that there is 1 flaw in that. If we simply retain all of our players, you can garuntee that the feel good factor from promotion would disappear. Cue the crys of "This is the last staw" and attendances stay static.

I regards to the rent, ACL have said that the new terms are based on a tarriff dependent on the level of football we are playing.

oldskyblue58 · Feb 18, 2013

all fair points............ 18k could be light but it is 7k up on where we are now............ it might start higher but it so dependent on success..... add another 7k and things look brighter

Could wing it but I just do not see our present squad holding its own in a higher division. We lack the stength, pace and leadership imo

I am sure ACL would want a higher rent but I bet it would still be less than 500K although there might be an escalator if crowds got significantly higher

Shirt sponsorship is agreed usually for a number of years ....... but yes there is a premium for being the Championship...... we got £1m over 3 years off City Link based on being in the Championship. It runs out end of this season. So will it be significant ?

We are more saleable yes ...... so long as we have potential to stay in Championship......... depends on success and more often than not that means money iinvested in the team which means higher wage costs.

vicious circle really....... but i would rather we were up there than L1

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