If SISU do put ACL out of business (1 Viewer)

grego_gee

New Member
searching google for "average rent for football club" threw up this very interesting perspective!

History
Liverpool F.C. were formed in 1892, following a rent dispute between the leaseholder of Anfield, John Houlding, and Everton Football Club, which left Houlding with a ground but no club playing in it.

:pimp:

Read More http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...ews/2012/12/01/92746-32341622/?#ixzz2E0eHdcGx
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
In CCFC accounts 2002 it lists operating leases payable for land and buildings in 2003 at £308k - i assume that was the rent then for HR after they sold the ground ?.
 

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
I think the whole issue is divisive wingy. There are, if you like, sides being taken about the off field stuff. Only time we look to be travelling generally in one direction is when we are supporting MR and the team. Even then opinions differ.

It puzzles me that so many business people buy into the spin that comes out of the club. Simply accept it as true, without making any check into it at all. Did they become successful in business acting like that ? certainly not so why is football different. To inquire, to have your eyes open doesnt stop passion for something you love! You could say the same about those coming out staunchly in favour of ACL but to a far lesser number, find the facts dont just simply believe. A lot of this is media led, and ill informed led at that. The facts are there but it doesnt make a headline does it.

My own take on it is that I have had no reason to disbelieve the statements coming from ACL, to my knowledge I do not believe that they have issued false information or deliberately misled. Not saying they havent put their own spin on things, nor am i saying they would be wrong to do so, but the feel i get is honest. The facts that I know support their argument to a large extent

On the other hand you have CCFC and SISU. Again i wouldnt deny their right to put their spin on it, nothing wrong with that really. But the track record they have in respect of providing facts, transparency and integrity is simply not very good. They wheel out others to back them up, providing them with the ammunition, but the facts simply do not match their "reality". They have a much louder voice in the media because they have an agenda, they rely on fans love for the team, and the fact that for all sorts of reasons the Charity & Council can not issue similar emotive statements to match their own. Why do people simply accept what they say when they know the track record - do leopards change their spots ? - clearly use of media, limited facts, emotional statements etc are a tactic they have used before why think they wont use again?

Between the two you have a local media that repeatedly proves itself fairly inept. I understand the problems they have because they have to maintain a relationship with the club, if they dont the club will kick them out. They have to retain a relationship with ACL, Council and Charity but because these three have their basis in the community as a whole know they will not be kicked out, because the bodies involved have to be seen to be open to public scrutiny. Hardly a level playing field. CWR have to try and take a balanced view, (for the life of me I can not see how having Linnel involved meets that criteria) to do so should mean that they back no one. But from the interviews I have heard I would say they favour the club. The CT in my view has lazy reporters and they take the easy path coming down on the balance of things for CCFC. The information as many of us have proven is out there - our media report but they carry out little real investigative journalism.

In the middle of all this is the public of Coventry and surrounding areas, in particular the fans. Unfortunately it is a sad fact that the quiet voice is rarely heard and he who shouts loudest is believed - not because they are right but simply because they shout loudest. As such it is very difficult to fault joe public if they come down on the side of the club. The ordinary fan just wants to see his team win, rarely understands the finances (why would they ?), they will come down on the side of their heroes on the pitch. Clever PR people know this. Fans will hear the club first, see it reinforced in a less than inquiring media and conclude that the club is being shafted by the bad people at ACL...... if ACL, Council, Charity hadnt held the club back look at the success we would have had is the message peddled .......... fantasy but it is taken by many as reality.

When it comes to football, owners, directors, managers, players, fans ignore logic, ignore the facts, dismiss common sense and good business practice...... all for the thrill of seeing a bag of wind hit a net more times than the other team over 90 minutes (plus added time) .......... we all do it, then sit wondering how the hell did we get in this mess :thinking about:. Then we go through it all again next week :facepalm:

I want our club successful, viable, vibrant. I do not want to take sides and I certainly do not want to side against it. However i have a strong sense of fairness, right and wrong, and what the owners are doing appears self centered, uncaring, money driven and wrong to me. It isnt that i am against our team at all, but i am certainly against its owners

That's very well put OSB.
The only caveate to that is business is business as they say. What SISU does for their own ends is nothing more than a lot of companies may do. The old cliche of treading on people who get in your way comes to mind. Nothing personal, its busines as Trump would coin a phrase. And you seriously don't achieve anything by being a bunch of softies that's for sure.

Google, Starbucks do they really care? No.

But are SISU our most despicaple owners to date..Yes.
We don't have to agree with their methods and I certainly draw a line morally at some point but they seem to know no bounds. Whatever people may think, they should have paid the darn rent! I think they have it, they just use it as leverage to play hard ball and create the mess. I don't blame ACL for anything other than percieved weakness of the management for allowing this situation to flourish which threatened their own very survival. If you owned a house with a mortgage and rented it out then the tennent failed to pay the rent and in turn you could not keep up your mortgage payment and end up in foreclosure, I think you would have taken more appropriate action sooner knowing the serious consequencies for not doing so? ACL are weak. They have been bullied.

The blame has largely to levied at SISU's doorstep but ACL are not completley without culpability surely?
 
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Wrenstreetcarpark

New Member
OSB
The rent at the Ricoh in 2005 was just less than the lease and similar costs at HR. £925,000.
CCFC was paying juat a bit more in 2004 at HR than it had to when it moved to the Ricoh. The difference was that they had lost the beer and burgers and the stand sponsorship etc. They still had the hospitality etc as they do now.

and remember McGinnity was on the board of ACL when CCFC signed the lease for the Ricoh...
 

cloughie

Well-Known Member
That's very well put OSB.
The only caveate to that is business is business as they say. What SISU does for their own ends is nothing more than a lot of companies may do. The old cliche of treading on people who get in your way comes to mind. Nothing personal, its busines as Trump would coin a phrase. And you seriously don't achieve anything by being a bunch of softies that's for sure.

Google, Starbucks do they really care? No.



But are SISU our most despicaple owners to date..Yes.
We don't have to agree with their methods and I certainly draw a line morally at some point but they seem to know no bounds. Whatever people may think, they should have paid the darn rent! I think they have it, they just use it as leverage to play hard ball and create the mess. I don't blame ACL for anything other than percieved weakness of the management for allowing this situation to flourish which threatened their own very survival. If you owned a house with a mortgage and rented it out then the tennent failed to pay the rent and in turn you could not keep up your mortgage payment and end up in foreclosure, I think you would have taken more appropriate action sooner knowing the serious consequencies for not doing so? ACL are weak. They have been bullied.

The blame has largely to levied at SISU's doorstep but ACL are not completley without culpability surely?

Agreed they should have been more forceful

but some may say they have been acting in good faith for the good of the club as inline with Higgs trust principles.

lets hope the bank give ACL a bit of steel now
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Maybe its time you got of your high horse for once!

Wow that put me in my place :facepalm: ............ me being a ccfc fan and all, belittling myself and everyone else at the same time. Jumping to hugely illogical conclusions based on nothing - I do it all the time I never mention any published facts !. Of course there were little clues in things like "my own take" "why would they" "we all do it" "very difficult to fault joe public" "the club<not SISU> being shafted" But i guess you have to read it all properly and then comprehend.

So if any ccfc fan (bar one :whistle:) feels belittled i apologise ...... simply was not the intention now or ever. However I clearly know more than one fan who has repeatedly demonstrated that fact, and I make no apologies for that at all :laugh::laugh::laugh:.

Hope that was short enough psgm1 but I could have made it much much shorter ;)
 
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oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
As you/they say business is business paxman ......... have no issue at all with the concept just dont like SISU's brand of it.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
OSB
The rent at the Ricoh in 2005 was just less than the lease and similar costs at HR. £925,000.
CCFC was paying juat a bit more in 2004 at HR than it had to when it moved to the Ricoh. The difference was that they had lost the beer and burgers and the stand sponsorship etc. They still had the hospitality etc as they do now.

and remember McGinnity was on the board of ACL when CCFC signed the lease for the Ricoh...

Seems £100k has never been a likely rent for a ground for CCFC to play in ?

McG clearly had all the facts from both sides in that case ....... surely he messed up in not putting a contingency in the lease in case things didnt work out, or better still could have agreed something like a lease based on attendance as some have suggested here?
 

Danceswithhorses

Well-Known Member
I think YET AGAIN you have made a conclusion that contradict what you have been saying!

I find it difficult to find ANYONE prepared to say ACL at fault - indeed quite the opposite is true! Whilst you made a long winded and contrived comment on how you know the facts and joe public hasdn't got a clue is at best disingenuous at worst condescending of the fans!

From the people I have spoken to, there isn't one person who claims ACL are the bad guys - their eyes are most definitely open as to the state of play within City.

Clearly I walk around in a different circle of people to you, as from your comment, you imply that the fans generally take SiSU's side- quite clearly this is not the case!
Its been a long time since ANYONE has believed anything coming out from SiSU.

Saying that I cannot disagree with the last couple of chapters. Its just sad that you've basically callled all fans idiots and you're the only one that makes sense!

Judging from your previous posts and the bizarre leaps of logic you consistently make, I suggest you need to look at yourself before you cast stones!

Sure there are fans who just care about the club, but the way you put it across every fan except you ignores te truth!

Indeed there has been very little "fact" that has come out, merely conjecture and assumption.

No one in the public "knows" what is going on as the facts haven't been released!

SiSU haven't stated what they offered, and ACL haven't stated what their debts are - so it is ALL conjecture at this point.

It is utterly laughable that you claim to know what is going on because you don't (unless you are on the board of either side!). And no one other than these 2 groups does know!

I'm sure you enjoy making such grandiose comments and belittling fans, but right now you know as much as I or indeed every other fan does.

Maybe its time you got of your high horse for once!

OSB gives THE most unbiased, fair and accurate assessments, based on the albeit limited facts we fans are given.
Using his professional expertise and not inconsiderable time and effort, he then explains things in terms we can all understand.
Having re-read osb's post#22, i have no idea where you get your angst and spite from, but please keep a lid on it and try and be at least polite to a fellow sky blue, even if your views differ somewhat.
 
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