If SISU did leave...... (1 Viewer)

Great_Expectations · Feb 16, 2013

It is clear from reading through the various threads that opinions on SISU are generally polar opposite, with the exception of a few trying to offer a balanced viewpoint.

It appears one question has not been properly addressed yet; I ask this completely objectively, and as a genuine question, without wanting to provoke another debate between each side or reasons as to why they would or would not do this but:

What do people think will actually happen to the club if those who want 'SISU out' actually get their wish? What do you think will happen to CCFC if they walked away this minute? Is there a genuine alternative? Or is it a case of the grass is always greener?

Again I asked objectively but it is interesting to see what people think will actually happen.

coundonskyblue · Feb 16, 2013

Someone else will come in and buy the club. No club the size of ccfc has gone out of existence in the last 90 years, so why would we?

sky_blue_up_north · Feb 16, 2013

Well we know that there is no value in the club, would you invest?

Godiva · Feb 16, 2013

Great_Expectations said:
It is clear from reading through the various threads that opinions on SISU are generally polar opposite, with the exception of a few trying to offer a balanced viewpoint.

It appears one question has not been properly addressed yet; I ask this completely objectively, and as a genuine question, without wanting to provoke another debate between each side or reasons as to why they would or would not do this but:

What do people think will actually happen to the club if those who want 'SISU out' actually get their wish? What do you think will happen to CCFC if they walked away this minute? Is there a genuine alternative? Or is it a case of the grass is always greener?

Again I asked objectively but it is interesting to see what people think will actually happen.

It depends on how they leave. If they liquidate the club, then it's game over.

If they put the club up for sale the Trust will try to find investors to take over.

Sick Boy · Feb 16, 2013

coundonskyblue said:
Someone else will come in and buy the club. No club the size of ccfc has gone out of existence in the last 90 years, so why would we?

Like who?

Why would they want to? They wouldn't want to be ripped off by the council as well.

Besides, we have been know for being first to do new things-all seater stadium, shirt sponsors etc....we could well be the first club to disappear.

Danceswithhorses · Feb 16, 2013

Could anyone manage CCFC worse than SISU have ?

SkyBlueSwiss · Feb 16, 2013

I believe that there is life after SISU, provided SISU don't get nasty and put the club into administration or liqidation out of pique.
If a genuine investor or group of investors came along that were prepared to be honest and open, were able to present a proper short, medium and long-term budget and business plan, were prepared to work with the council and Higgs on bringing the club forwards and investing in the area development (which has always been a part of the Ricoh plan from inception and is a money-spinner for all if done correctly with honesty and cooperation), then I am of the opinion that the council and Higgs would work very closely with said investor(s) to the benefit of the club and the city to ensure that within a reasonable time club and Ricoh were reunited and CCFC becomes a stable, well run club again.
It is. imho, only the fact that SISU cannot be trusted and continuosly do the wrong thing and renege on promises and commitments that stop anyone wanting to work with them to come to a solution to benefit our club.

In the final analysis, if SISU decide now to turn nasty, the trust is there with legal rights to carry on the name and club in whatever form, and I do believe that should that happen, genuine investors will appear and that within a few short years this poor club I so desperately want to see out of this dark miasma will indeed rise like the phoenix bright and clean agian.

Great_Expectations · Feb 16, 2013

Coundon I don't think you can be that general - each case would be different. For example how many other clubs do you know that own 0% of the stadium they pay them home games in.

stupot07 · Feb 16, 2013

Danceswithhorses said:
Could anyone manage CCFC worse than SISU have ?

Bryan Richardson?

Steve.B50 · Feb 16, 2013

Great_Expectation. A very good question but if they went or walked someone would take over, investors are around but do not want both the debt and/or to pay anything fr the club.
The issue we would have would be if these investors actually did care about the football club, which is why you need supporters involved.
I personally am very confident that if SISU walked away or offered the cub up for sale as a reasonable amount at let two groups would bid for it.

However, your question is very important and needs replies

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Feb 16, 2013

Great_Expectations said:
Coundon I don't think you can be that general - each case would be different. For example how many other clubs do you know that own 0% of the stadium they pay them home games in.

Ownership of the stadium could be on the cards for the right purchaser, I'm sure. Be honest and open with such negotiations so that everyone understand the totality of the deal.

Agree terms or walk away. Explain the bigger vision for the club and area and let people be aware. If the ACL and/or the council scupper a deal via greed, then let people know. It is possible to be honest and candid in business and still be successful.

SISU's issue is that they rushed to put a foot in the door and did so without effective due diligence. So desperate were they to get their trotters in the trough of a football club - any football club - that they forgot about a plan with regards running it properly. Knowing they got their fingers burned, they're now trying to bully their way into additional income streams to stem losses. But so you know what, even with free rent as matchday income, they're still losing money hand over fist - they lost over £6m according to the last set of accounts.

I am sure that if someone came in with a robust plan for the good of the club and the redevelopment of the area, and did so with transparency; then I believe a deal could be done

Mr T - Sukka! · Feb 16, 2013

If Sisu did leave Coventry city would be in big trouble. They are funding the team and the running costs of the Club, wont mention the rent bit.

This would leave us with a lack of funds to pay the bills etc, taxes day to day running costs.

All this SISU out stuff is a little bit short sighted. If they do go and no one else comes in the result could be disastrous!

stupot07 · Feb 16, 2013

Steve.B50 said:
Great_Expectation. A very good question but if they went or walked someone would take over, investors are around but do not want both the debt and/or to pay anything fr the club.
The issue we would have would be if these investors actually did care about the football club, which is why you need supporters involved.
I personally am very confident that if SISU walked away or offered the cub up for sale as a reasonable amount at let two groups would bid for it.

However, your question is very important and needs replies

Like Portsmouth and Birmingham? Interest but no actual takeover

coundonskyblue · Feb 16, 2013

<p>

Great_Expectations said:
Coundon I don't think you can be that general - each case would be different. For example how many other clubs do you know that own 0% of the stadium they pay them home games in.

Leeds, Luton, Stockport, Ipswich, Doncaster...

Great_Expectations · Feb 16, 2013

There have been a few that have alluded to investors buying the club is SISU left, but that is a fairly big assumption to make. How many times have we been close (or at least thought we were) to administration or something similar, a time when a potential investor may start sniffing and we have had nothing. Granted there was Hoffman but that went nowhere and granted we are not privy to all the goings on, but from an outsiders perspective it appears there has been no interest.

Playing devils advocate where are these additional investors coming from? Or perhaps an easier question to answer why would they?

Great_Expectations · Feb 16, 2013

coundonskyblue said:
<p>

Leeds, Luton, Stockport, Ipswich, Doncaster...

And (are expected to) pay an enormous rent figure?

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Feb 16, 2013

Great_Expectations said:
And (are expected to) pay an enormous rent figure?

Surely ACL have already shown there's flexibility in the rent figure? It's just that SISU went about negotiating it in a wrong way, including seemingly distressing ACL for ultimate gain, which doesn't engender much good will at the negotiating table.

They're now talking about Deliotte playing a role. Why don't they suggest this a year ago and pay a peppercorn and fair amount pending outcome? As that way, the accrued arrears wouldn't be the problem it now is.

The arrears are so high as SISU have constantly changed tact, looking at Rushden and Diamonds or Hinckley Town, distressing ACL, agreeing deals then reneging, and now a 30K stadium just outside of Rugby. All of this posturing and frankly speaking - madness - is just postponing agreement, deferring solution and increasing arrears, which are seemingly now the biggest issue?!?!?

coundonskyblue · Feb 16, 2013

<p>

Great_Expectations said:
And (are expected to) pay an enormous rent figure?

Is 400k that enormous?

Leeds pay about £1.5m.

Danceswithhorses · Feb 16, 2013

stupot07 said:
Bryan Richardson?

lol..of course BR...ok lets call that one a tie...both equally imcompetent

RichieGunns · Feb 16, 2013

Maybe ACL want the club.

Could be playing SISU at their own game.

Freezing their accounts so they end up pulling out cause they can't support the club financially, allowing ACL and the Council to step in and take over...

Senior Vick from Alicante · Feb 16, 2013

One thing i cant see happening is the club being liquidated. It does not benefit either partys now, SISU would not get anything back at all and ACL would not have a club in the ground. The club is just a pawn between SISU and ACL now. SISU have it, dont want it, but need it to try and recoup some of its losses or gain control of the stadium. ACL have the stadium but long term would like the club to have new owners so will not engage in anything meaningfull with SISU or Fisher as they are not trustworthy. Its a vicious circle with CCFC stuck in the middle at the moment and unless one side concedes ground thats the way it will stay. If Delloitte got involved and did mediate it would not change a thing in my oppinion as the mistrust between the partys will always remain and SISU want everything for nothing, all the council is doing is strangling them at their own game. PUSB

Cbaker89 · Feb 16, 2013

This is crazy what do we KNOW for fact that sisu have done wrong? Would they have apologised at the beginning of the season and admitted they have made mistakes in the past if they didn't want to move this club forward? Personally I think sisu are good for us there smart leaders and want to create a profit so they can reinvest in players an ultimately push us up the leagues. Why as a company (which is what football is now) would you invest in a company who our loosing millions of pounds a year it's like just every year giving your wages to a man who then throws it down the toilet. Why Would you do it? We new to fix the route course of problems an thy is there is very little money coming in. Now for us to go build a new stadium seems to be the only outcome coming from this. Then what will the council do? Because I get the impression if sisu want something they will eventually get it. (They also don't seem like the kind of company that are going to walk away and loose the money they invested into this club, they will turn it round and make us profitable) I HAVE FAITH....perhaps to much.

chiefdave · Feb 16, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Ownership of the stadium could be on the cards for the right purchaser, I'm sure. Be honest and open with such negotiations so that everyone understand the totality of the deal.

I'm not sure ownership of the stadium is an option for any potential purchaser. The council, and possibly Higgs, seem to want a lot more out than they ever put in.

ouch · Feb 16, 2013

listen no one will buy the club without the ground. it is just stupid to spend millions on a name or a team with no security. we would be the biggest club to go out of the leagues and wind up completely

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Feb 16, 2013

chiefdave said:
I'm not sure ownership of the stadium is an option for any potential purchaser. The council, and possibly Higgs, seem to want a lot more out than they ever put in.

Of course they would. They've built up a tidy business there outside the auspices of the football club. Concerts, World Cup rugby, Olympic football, Davis Cup tennis, etc. This income has to have a value. If they asked a fair price, and a fair buyer would pay a fair price - then I still believe it would be on the cards. Surely the council are obligated to the tax payer to do so from their perspective?

Grendel · Feb 16, 2013

ouch said:
listen no one will buy the club without the ground. it is just stupid to spend millions on a name or a team with no security. we would be the biggest club to go out of the leagues and wind up completely

This is the problem and no one on here will acknowledge the grim reality. Sisu should have pulled the plug by now. If they cannot have a solid asset base to work with they will do eventually.

The current arrangements are the worst in the football league with the possible exception of Walsall. No revenue no sponsorship or naming revenue or any other benefits that go with the stadium. Would you rent a shop fro.m the council and be told half of what you sell you give them back? No.

The first rate facilities are irrelevant of the commercial benefit is zero. Birmingham city are for sake at a fraction of the price it would take to buy this club ground and facilities.

We are dead in the water.

chiefdave · Feb 16, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Of course they would. They've built up a tidy business there outside the auspices of the football club. Concerts, World Cup rugby, Olympic football, Davis Cup tennis, etc. This income has to have a value. If they asked a fair price, and a fair buyer would pay a fair price - then I still believe it would be on the cards. Surely the council are obligated to the tax payer to do so from their perspective?

Think you're missing my point. What I'm saying is the council don't appear willing to accept a fair price - they want to make a substantial profit. It's easy for them to say they would be prepared to sell but if they won't accept a realistic price that to me is the same as refusing to sell. That is of course their prerogative as owners but it's not going to help any potential takeover. As far as the tax payer goes surely as long as they recoup what they've put in they'll be fine. They can justify pretty much anything using the value of having a football club to the local economy in the same way Portsmouth Council are loaning Pompey millions to buy Fratton Park.

Grendel · Feb 16, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Of course they would. They've built up a tidy business there outside the auspices of the football club. Concerts, World Cup rugby, Olympic football, Davis Cup tennis, etc. This income has to have a value. If they asked a fair price, and a fair buyer would pay a fair price - then I still believe it would be on the cards. Surely the council are obligated to the tax payer to do so from their perspective?

However in most other instances where councils have sold stadiums back to football clubs they have done do without profit. Stoke is a good example. Doncaster is not as straightforward but the club gets a very good deal as do the likes of hull, Ipswich and Brighton. All of these clubs get the benefit of the stadium as all revenues are counted as part of FFP rules. We may as well play at Gigg Lane as we get no commercial benefit just a big fat bill to pay.

dadgad · Feb 16, 2013

The problem is Sisu themselves.
This is why the "fit and proper" criteria was devised to identify crooks, thieves and liars.
Unfortunately sisu cannot be identified....they are a private equity fund with many snouts in many troughs.
Over the last six years instead of proving that they are suited to owning the club they have done the opposite.
They will never change.....as a fan the further away they are from the club the better. If we had to start again playing at the Butts with one man and his dog in attendance it would be better than this deceitful death by a thousand cuts scenario.
PUSB.

Bluegloucester · Feb 16, 2013

ouch said:
listen no one will buy the club without the ground. it is just stupid to spend millions on a name or a team with no security. we would be the biggest club to go out of the leagues and wind up completely

So what did Sisu buy?

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