if ALC really cared about Coventry City (1 Viewer)

Skyblue4u · Mar 26, 2013

Why didn't they wait until after the cut off point for losing 10 points this season for administration before pursuing forcing the issue? Surly a few weeks would have made very little difference?

OK, so we messed up on the pitch which ended our play off dream but had we performed how would you feel now if we were top 6 and facing the deduction?

ACL are no angels but seem to care little about CCFC in reality despite what they say. The sooner we are rid them and SISU the better.

Sky Blues · Mar 27, 2013

Skyblue4u said:
Why didn't they wait until after the cut off point for losing 10 points this season for administration before pursuing forcing the issue? Surly a few weeks would have made very little difference?

OK, so we messed up on the pitch which ended our play off dream but had we performed how would you feel now if we were top 6 and facing the deduction?

ACL are no angels but seem to care little about CCFC in reality despite what they say. The sooner we are rid them and SISU the better.

If, as ACL say the Football League have confirmed, the golden share is in CCFC Ltd, then the club (CCFC Ltd) has been in admin since last Thursday. Doesn't that pre-date the cut-off point for the (first?) points deduction? The CET thinks the deduction would be this season (first line): http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/ne...ading-for-ten-point-deduction-92746-33065892/

ACL have said they were motivated to act by Sisu threatening to liquidate the club. If ACL had moved for admin before that moment, wouldn't a large number of fans just have accused them of not caring about the club?

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 27, 2013

They don't trust sisu and how right they were and are!!

Grendel · Mar 27, 2013

Sky Blue Pete said:
They don't trust sisu and how right they were and are!!

And anyone who trusts ACL is an even bigger fool

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 27, 2013

You are serious aren't you? Acl are worse than sisu? Is that your argument? Based on what?? I am happy to put in public forum that with owners that can be negotiated with there is a possible future for our club

Delboycov · Mar 27, 2013

Grendel said:
And anyone who trusts ACL is an even bigger fool

They aren't known for reneging on deals so you're on dodgy ground talking about trust there Grendel...

Grendel · Mar 27, 2013

Sky Blue Pete said:
You are serious aren't you? Acl are worse than sisu? Is that your argument? Based on what?? I am happy to put in public forum that with owners that can be negotiated with there is a possible future for our club

ACL care only about themselves. They have a duty to their shareholders and not supporters. They are touting potential owners of an organisation they have no ownership of. They wanted to appoint an administrator who has a history of getting clubs huge points penalties when in and exiting administration. They and their council bosses have charged the football club more than any other club outside the Premiership for the privilege of playing at the stadium while taking all the revenue.

Ask yourself this -- would ACL care less how SISU were piling up debts if they were still getting their pound of flesh?

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 27, 2013

Ask yourself this-4 year contract for david bell or pay the agreed rent?? Poor business acumen!!!! Acl business model depends on a successful football club and they know this they don't trust sisu and so can no longer work with them

mattylad · Mar 27, 2013

Grendel said:
ACL care only about themselves. They have a duty to their shareholders and not supporters. They are touting potential owners of an organisation they have no ownership of. They wanted to appoint an administrator who has a history of getting clubs huge points penalties when in and exiting administration. They and their council bosses have charged the football club more than any other club outside the Premiership for the privilege of playing at the stadium while taking all the revenue.

Ask yourself this -- would ACL care less how SISU were piling up debts if they were still getting their pound of flesh?

no they wouldn't give a toss same as they didnt the four years prior when rent was paid! it does amaze me that people who say don't be taken in by SISU can't see the rhetoric in ACL's actions....do people honestly believe they feared liquidation for the fans sake and not for it's own agenda!?

Grendel · Mar 27, 2013

Sky Blue Pete said:
Ask yourself this-4 year contract for david bell or pay the agreed rent?? Poor business acumen!!!! Acl business model depends on a successful football club and they know this they don't trust sisu and so can no longer work with them

Strange they seemed very happy with SISU until they stopped paying them. I think David Bell could have had an 8 year deal and ACL would not have bothered providing we kept satisfying their lust for cash. You seem very naive.

Nonleagueherewecome · Mar 27, 2013

Sky Blue Pete said:
You are serious aren't you? Acl are worse than sisu? Is that your argument? Based on what?? I am happy to put in public forum that with owners that can be negotiated with there is a possible future for our club

Come on, it's Contrary Mary you're arguing with here...his hobby is deliberately taking inflammatory and unpopular viewpoints then insulting people who disagree with him.

Grendel · Mar 27, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
Come on, it's Contrary Mary you're arguing with here...his hobby is deliberately taking inflammatory and unpopular viewpoints then insulting people who disagree with him.

Next you'll be saying the initials mean Altruistic Caring and Loving.

They just want the cash register to tick over and they care not who provides their desire for money.

Nonleagueherewecome · Mar 27, 2013

Grendel said:
Next you'll be saying the initials mean Altruistic Caring and Loving.

They just want the cash register to tick over and they care not who provides their desire for money.

Sorry, I assume this is SISU you are talking about here? ACL made a lot of concessions and offered a bloody good deal. They also carried out business with a professionalism that SISU can only dream of. Your blind hatred of them and defence of SISU is fucking disgusting for a so-called Coventry City fan.

Grendel · Mar 27, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
Sorry, I assume this is SISU you are talking about here? ACL made a lot of concessions and offered a bloody good deal. They also carried out business with a professionalism that SISU can only dream of. Your blind hatred of them and defence of SISU is fecking disgusting for a so-called Coventry City fan.

Oh ok so a fan of a football club shows his loyalty by praising the landlord does he.

Having developed an unworkable business plan that was deemed to ruin the club we all are supposed to praise the concessions which only came about when the tenant refused to pay.

You may wish to support the council and its management company. My loyalties remain with the club.

Lets see how they fare with any potential buyers as none would even look at this club not even with the "generous" revised offer.

Paxman II · Mar 27, 2013

Grendel makes a valid argument.
I think ACL are little better than the scoundrels SISU.

It's not that ACL have a bad heart it's the way they perceived everything and got so much wrong, even the petition at the court. I would not be surprised to find they think they had it sorted because the FL mentioned the Golden Share is with Ltd yet to find that it may well be with Holdings?
ACL are not very bright.

SISU are bright (and I don't mean Fisher) because they have maintained the stance all along. They did not waiver but they did seemingly make an agreement but then said no however some of the info they wanted from ACL to back up the agreement was not forthcoming.
I think they screwed the ACL last Thursday and ACL floundered in court today. But if SISU are wrong about the golden share they have only screwed themselves. My guess is they requested the FL to confirm CCFC (holdings) Ltd did have the share and explained the reasoning even agreeing they could seek to complete their fixtures elsewhere in the same correspondence before placing the other company in admin. Now was that worded in a way as to get a positive and response that the FL did not realise? Probably. You see SISU's lot while devious are bright. Business is business when you are fighting for your life. The FL may have unwittingly agreed.

I'm not saying this is in anyway a fact or even a possibility but you must consider it your honour!

Flying Fokker · Mar 27, 2013

It's nearly Easter. Can we go on a share hunt?

Or better still. Get resurrected on Sunday?

Otis · Mar 27, 2013

Flying Fokker said:
It's nearly Easter. Can we go on a share hunt?

Or better still. Get resurrected on Sunday?

Think this all comes down to whether or not you believe ACL's sincerity in their assertion that they had real concerns SIsu were going to liquidate the club.

I have been on the fence for some time on the Sisu /ACL issue but do have to say, the more I hear the more I trust ACL over Sisu.

That's not to say the rent wasn't too high and that ACL couldn't have done more to avoid this situation, but now Sisu are coming across as incompetent and also completely untrustworthy.

Find it strange after all that has gone on that people can actually say ACL are worse.

I don't completely trust ACL by a long chalk, but would now take them over Sisu any day of the week.

Much the lesser of two evils I would say.

Sent from my KIS using Tapatalk 2

rupert_bear · Mar 27, 2013

Who put the club into administrationy
Who hasn't submitted it's accounts, triggering our third transfer embaro in 3 years
Who possibly has put the football club in further jeopady with this Golden Share debacle
Who has run this club on a tisue of lies "we are debt free " but now owe 60million, was 50 last week, 45 three weeks ago.

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 27, 2013

Otis said:
Think this all comes down to whether or not you believe ACL's sincerity in their assertion that they had real concerns SIsu were going to liquidate the club.

I have been on the fence for some time on the Sisu /ACL issue but do have to say, the more I hear the more I trust ACL over Sisu.

That's not to say the rent wasn't too high and that ACL couldn't have done more to avoid this situation, but now Sisu are coming across as incompetent and also completely untrustworthy.

Find it strange after all that has gone on that people can actually say ACL are worse.

I don't completely trust ACL by a long chalk, but would now take them over Sisu any day of the week.

Much the lesser of two evils I would say.

Sent from my KIS using Tapatalk 2

My position too

thechase · Mar 27, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
Sorry, I assume this is SISU you are talking about here? ACL made a lot of concessions and offered a bloody good deal. They also carried out business with a professionalism that SISU can only dream of. Your blind hatred of them and defence of SISU is fucking disgusting for a so-called Coventry City fan.

When did these concessions get made....after the rent stopped getting paid! Where was their 'generous' offer prior to this or acceptance that they had been grossly overcharging rent for years? As for his so called 'fucking disgusting' attitude i seem to recall you threatened to stop supporting the club if we sold Bigirimana and yet here you still are offering your opinions. You make more empty threats than SISU.

Astute · Mar 27, 2013

SISU kept taking the piss out of ACL. ACL had to do something or SISU would have continued to take the piss. Non payment of rent for a year is long enough. By the look of it SISU would only be happy if the rent was reduced to 0. It is what they want the last 12 months for. Then what is there stopping them from doing it again?

Otis · Mar 27, 2013

ACL are certainly no angels, though I would more apportion blame in the direction of the council in all this, rather than ACL, but with Sisu there does very much seem to be a degree of an air of dishonesty about them.

Don't think you can throw the same label at ACL.

Wouldn't trust the council as far as I can throw them though.

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 27, 2013

What do you think the council want Otis? I may be blind to their trustworthiness having many friends trying to do their best for their community

Mr T - Sukka! · Mar 27, 2013

Skyblue4u said:
Why didn't they wait until after the cut off point for losing 10 points this season for administration before pursuing forcing the issue? Surly a few weeks would have made very little difference? Erm they have been waiting over a year for thier rent. With no sign of payment so that one goes out of the window.

OK, so we messed up on the pitch which ended our play off dream but had we performed how would you feel now if we were top 6 and facing the deduction?
We have not been in the top 6 at any stage this season. Not even once! So you can also discount this one.

ACL are no angels but seem to care little about CCFC in reality despite what they say. The sooner we are rid them and SISU the better.

Not sure what you mean by this, they offered to drop the rent to non paying tennents, They included food and drink. They have not broken any contracts.
No fault to put on ACL at all. They took CCFC to court to STOP liquidation threatened by Tim Fisher. So you could say they are saving us going out of business.

Otis · Mar 27, 2013

Sky Blue Pete said:
What do you think the council want Otis? I may be blind to their trustworthiness having many friends trying to do their best for their community

I don't know. Someone they trust enough to share backhanders with, rather than someone they don't trust when the backhanders are due to take place?

Tank Top · Mar 27, 2013

Grendel said:
Strange they seemed very happy with SISU until they stopped paying them. I think David Bell could have had an 8 year deal and ACL would not have bothered providing we kept satisfying their lust for cash. You seem very naive.

That's how it works Grendel!
If you have an agreement, and it is honored there is no Problem. if that agreement is defaulted on then the relationship breaks down, and things get messy.
"Lust for cash"? a bit dramatic don't you think ACL only want whats owed, like we all would.
It was only a short while ago, that SISSU stated "We don't have a mortgage, we don't owe anything to anyone.
Now it seems there has been a slight clerical error and they are walking round with a £60 mill IOU round their necks.
And bear in mind, it was only a couple of weeks ago that they were talking about building a £30 mill stadium in south Warwickshire, and it gets Better! SIssu have been droning on about the cost of the rent crippling the club and citing it as being the main factor for our financial demise,but if you subtract £1.3 million from £60mill it still leaves an astonishing £58.7'mil owed, in reflection the Rent issue is a "Red Herring" and a mere drop in the ocean.
The Alleged £60mil is a mind boggling figure, that I cannot believe as factual, it will no doubt show up on some balance sheet or other, but it has been a"now you see it now you don't"Dept, isn't it amazing what those corporate accountants can do, and people on here still blame ACL for our demise, now that's "even more amazing"

SkyBlueSwiss · Mar 27, 2013

Paxman II said:
Grendel makes a valid argument.
I think ACL are little better than the scoundrels SISU.

It's not that ACL have a bad heart it's the way they perceived everything and got so much wrong, even the petition at the court. I would not be surprised to find they think they had it sorted because the FL mentioned the Golden Share is with Ltd yet to find that it may well be with Holdings?
ACL are not very bright.

SISU are bright (and I don't mean Fisher) because they have maintained the stance all along. They did not waiver but they did seemingly make an agreement but then said no however some of the info they wanted from ACL to back up the agreement was not forthcoming.
I think they screwed the ACL last Thursday and ACL floundered in court today. But if SISU are wrong about the golden share they have only screwed themselves. My guess is they requested the FL to confirm CCFC (holdings) Ltd did have the share and explained the reasoning even agreeing they could seek to complete their fixtures elsewhere in the same correspondence before placing the other company in admin. Now was that worded in a way as to get a positive and response that the FL did not realise? Probably. You see SISU's lot while devious are bright. Business is business when you are fighting for your life. The FL may have unwittingly agreed.

I'm not saying this is in anyway a fact or even a possibility but you must consider it your honour!

Remind me not to do business with you then. Anyone who can think like that is not someone I would do business with.

Flying Fokker · Mar 27, 2013

Otis said:
ACL are certainly no angels, though I would more apportion blame in the direction of the council in all this, rather than ACL, but with Sisu there does very much seem to be a degree of an air of dishonesty about them.

Don't think you can throw the same label at ACL.

Wouldn't trust the council as far as I can throw them though.

The council has to have a high degree of accountability in the things they do when using public assets. They are also in the middle of huge public spending cuts so they have to demonstrate that they are getting best value for Coventry's population and more notably 'The Government'.

The checks and balances in Local Government are often seen as red tape. However, ACL is a separate organisation albeit they are inextricably linked (That sounds familiar). Coventry Council have to challenge the potential misuse of public assets and will continue to do so until they agree that the private sector is able to take the club forward and develop the surrounding area.

TasmanSeaSkyBlue · Mar 27, 2013

It appears that the poor old Sky Blues fans are stuck in the middle whilst two groups of "allegedly" corporate criminals play chicken & do battle in the Court of public opinion & Court of Law to find which one is smarter, more astute at ripping the city of Coventry off.

The 'golden share' may even leave the city. You may not need it in the Southern League. SiSU & ACL don't care - business is business.

olderskyblue · Mar 27, 2013

CCFC had the option years ago to have a league based rent payment structure, and turned it down. ACL's fault? CCFC agreed the figure and only last year decided to challenge it by stopping paying rent.. The continual rhetoric that ACL are the "money grabbers" in all this is naive in the extreme, but amusing to see the same people peddling it to "help" their argument.

Reminds me of the Linnell head in the sand attitude. "Tell me why Tim fisher is a puppet"

kg82 · Mar 27, 2013

In this, everybody is it in it for themselves. Only money matters... This is business after all. Bottom of the priority list us the football club and supporters.

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 27, 2013

Otis said:
I don't know. Someone they trust enough to share backhanders with, rather than someone they don't trust when the backhanders are due to take place?

I thought you'd have a better answer than that. Seriously I know council lots who give up every spare moment dealing with their constituents and local issues for the good of their community. They are not all angels but if they are taking backhanders they are very small or they are great at hiding them. I recognise there are favours and business trips etc

mrtickle · Mar 27, 2013

Sky Blue Pete said:
Ask yourself this-4 year contract for david bell or pay the agreed rent?? Poor business acumen!!!! Acl business model depends on a successful football club and they know this they don't trust sisu and so can no longer work with them

Why do people stick up for ACL. Sisu are no good. ACL are no good. Neither have the interests of the fans at heart. Stop apologising for them wanting to be a business. Stick up for the club and neither of them.

Danceswithhorses · Mar 27, 2013

Tank Top said:
if you subtract £1.3 million from £60mill it still leaves an astonishing £47'mil owed

Hmmmm...whilst i can agree with some of the sentiment of your post, the maths is a little rusty
60-1.3=58.7

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 27, 2013

mrtickle said:
Why do people stick up for ACL. Sisu are no good. ACL are no good. Neither have the interests of the fans at heart. Stop apologising for them wanting to be a business. Stick up for the club and neither of them.

Don't think I would defend their position as a sort of socialist but when people start spouting what I consider incorrectly, that sisu are no worse than any company it gets my goat

if ALC really cared about Coventry City (1 Viewer)

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