It is not as black and white as some have made it seem.
It is not a phoenix / breakaway club OR Coventry City, it can be both.
My hope would be that if a breakaway or phoenix team was formed then further down the line CCFC and this new club would once again become one.
If I follow a new club it doesn't mean I am no longer a CCFC supporter.
WHILE the club is out of the City I would back a new team. If and when CCFC came back to Coventry this new team wouldn't survive anyway I would have thought.
Think most sensible people on here believe that if we go to Northampton it will be a more than 3 years before we return.
This is why I would back a new club. A new club with increasingly bigger support could help force Sisu out and new owners in.
Stu,
I understand what your point of view is and I accept that this is your point of view.
What we have here is a difference of perception. You perceive a SISU-owned football club playing in Northampton as "your" club. I and some others perceive this to no longer be our club and would like to take action to remedy this state of affairs. So we are looking at the same situation and we see two totally different things. No amount of argument is likely to change this perception. I have not argued against you continuing to support a SISU-owned club playing in Northampton - that is your choice. And yet you argue vociferously against what I perceive to be the situation and what I would like to see happen. Don't you think this is a bit one-sided? Hence I ask you to stop arguing against something so vociferously that you intend to have nothing to do with anyway.
If the new club folded those who had backed it financially would be left with nothing. OK if you were just a fan but not if you had spent time and money organising and running it. We would be better off going out and persuading other businessmen to take on the current club.
For me if the current club leaves I support nobody until it comes back.
Watch it Brighton, Swiss will turn on you next.
Of course it's 1 sided, it's my view my opinion.
Ok, as sisu owned ccfc are dead to you, and you will having nothing else to do with the club, I assume you will no longer post an anything ccfc related...
think the only way you get round this is a Rangers type situation where it's basically the same club and they vote to let you start at a higher point in the pyramid than a new club would.
Yes I was thinking along those lines.
If a Phoenix Club was set up whilst CCFC still existed, then no doubt it would be at the bottom of the Football league pyramid.
However, if CCFC failed to exist, then maybe there would be some flexibility.
We would have The Ricoh as a stadium and a potential fan base of 10k, therefore would it be realistic to expect the entry point to be one level below league 2?
If that was to be the case, it may be a bitter pill worth swallowing!!!!
We wouldn't start in the BSP, get real! Wimbledon had to start below non-league.
A new Phoenix club couldn't afford to play in the RICOH, but also, who wants to watch a football club in a 32k seater with about 1-2k fans in it at best at the start!?
Out of interest, how would we go about headhunting a new consortium to buy the club? Surely it's more direct than starting a protest club and hoping one appears?
weren't there 4 bidders for CCFC Ltd, SISU, Haskell and two others who I don't think have been named. Wonder who they were and if they were serious.
I think potential buyers are put off by knowing they will have to deal with SISU, whose difficult to deal with reputation is by now well known.
We wouldn't start in the BSP, get real! Wimbledon had to start below non-league.
A new Phoenix club couldn't afford to play in the RICOH, but also, who wants to watch a football club in a 32k seater with about 1-2k fans in it at best at the start!?
Just a couple of things.
If Haskell was still interested in the Ricoh and land for future development, then I am sure he could be persuaded to finance a team playing at The Ricoh.
Secondly, I think it is fair to say that the situation we find ourselves in, is unlike any previous administration. Maybe the FL would take this into consideration.
I agree with what u say about 1-2k fans which is based on your assumption that we would be at the bottom of the football league pyramid. Incidentally, the same level of support can be expected next season at Sixfields. My assumption of 10k was based on FL granting entry point of BSP.
It is not as black and white as some have made it seem.
It is not a phoenix / breakaway club OR Coventry City, it can be both.
My hope would be that if a breakaway or phoenix team was formed then further down the line CCFC and this new club would once again become one.
If I follow a new club it doesn't mean I am no longer a CCFC supporter.
WHILE the club is out of the City I would back a new team. If and when CCFC came back to Coventry this new team wouldn't survive anyway I would have thought.
Think most sensible people on here believe that if we go to Northampton it will be a more than 3 years before we return.
This is why I would back a new club. A new club with increasingly bigger support could help force Sisu out and new owners in anyway.
Watch it Brighton, Swiss will turn on you next.
I think Brighton and I can agree to disagree without "turning" on each other
No Swiss, our bromance is over!
Then feasibly he could buy an interest in the Ricoh and use that as leverage to get the existing club back.
I think that the problems here are
a. Hoffman/Elliott involved with Haskell
b. SISU would want too much money
I'm thinking more if the League fails to give Otium full control-which is unlikely.
Out of interest, how would we go about headhunting a new consortium to buy the club? Surely it's more direct than starting a protest club and hoping one appears?
You really don't do yourself any favours if you start following Grenduffy's style of response. Assuming that, based upon my point of view, I will no longer post is hardly an adequate response when it comes to answering a question or responding to a post.
If I was to start posting in this manner, I might even change my response to Grenduffy's post and say that, yes, I will leave this forum under those circumstances, but I will come back occasionally just to annoy you and Grenduffy.
Accept the need for urgency by some GT however I have concerns (sorry for being a broken record!) on the practicalities of some of the ideas you put forward.
1. How realistic is it to expect ACL to let us use the venue free of charge and to take all the proceeds from games? It makes little sense on their part and a better venue at least initially would be the Butts. Two Coventry clubs working side by side for a mutual benefit.
2. As long as the club exists it has commercial hold on the name and badge. More to the point whilst it may not be intended as a direct competitor to the current club it will inevitably cause some polarisation of the existing fan base as fans find it hard to support another team alongside CCFC.
3. The biggest issue I've got is the time, energy and money it will take to get this club off the ground and keep it running on a daily basis. People have said if it succeeds and forces SISU out then the Phoenix would just be disbanded. If people have invested lots of the three things I've mentioned, and the club has actually done well, what then?
Sorry if I'm being overly critical-everyone is talking with a lot of passion for the club. Starting a new club and keeping it going is not something we should just launch into though and it needs to be properly scrutinised so it doesn't end in frustration.
Accept the need for urgency by some GT however I have concerns (sorry for being a broken record!) on the practicalities of some of the ideas you put forward.
1. How realistic is it to expect ACL to let us use the venue free of charge and to take all the proceeds from games? It makes little sense on their part and a better venue at least initially would be the Butts. Two Coventry clubs working side by side for a mutual benefit.
2. As long as the club exists it has commercial hold on the name and badge. More to the point whilst it may not be intended as a direct competitor to the current club it will inevitably cause some polarisation of the existing fan base as fans find it hard to support another team alongside CCFC.
3. The biggest issue I've got is the time, energy and money it will take to get this club off the ground and keep it running on a daily basis. People have said if it succeeds and forces SISU out then the Phoenix would just be disbanded. If people have invested lots of the three things I've mentioned, and the club has actually done well, what then?
Sorry if I'm being overly critical-everyone is talking with a lot of passion for the club. Starting a new club and keeping it going is not something we should just launch into though and it needs to be properly scrutinised so it doesn't end in frustration.
Bsb,
1. Free of charge isn't realistic, there are costs. However, if there are enough supporters behind the idea, it would be in ACL's interests to talk to us and discuss costs. A smaller crowd is better than no crowd.
2. Over the years, our name has already changed (quite radically), and our badge has changed. We would obviously try to find something as close as we can to the current name and badge. Unfortunately, I think we will lose some sky blue fans, some will never accept the idea, but we certainly don't want to drive people away. I think a Phoenix build will take time, but hopefully, as it grows, people will start to come back, and accept it over time.
3. See my previous post.
This is where is falls down, it's not black and white. There are lots of categories of supporter.While I would agree with a large parts of rogers post, i would like to address some areas.
To me, it is black or white. I think a Phoenix is only an option once it has been accepted that the ccfc we all know and love, is no longer the ccfc we all know and love!
If we move forward together, then we don't look back!
We can't view two entities as ccfc! We shouldn't start something unless we intend to see it through, and not drop it if/when a perceived easier/better option comes along, half-arsed will fail.
We can dump sisu, we can take control, we can take our club back, but we can only do that once we have accepted that what we knew as ccfc is no longer recognisable, and have moved on.
We are all at different stages of the grief process, personally, I moved on a long time ago, and I feel emotionally detached from everything sisu related. Everyone has different tollerances, and acceptance levels. Emotions are obviously very high with many supporters, and i accept it will take time for the majority to come on board with this Phoenix idea, [b[but we can only move forward if we are together.[/b]
One ccfc!
http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/33253-5-stages-of-grief.?p=482652#post482652
Yes small crowds are better than none but what if ACL find a better offer? What you're saying suggests that the current CCFC is dead-in my view it isn't and not everyone fully behind this Phoenix idea shares it either. To run a football club and campaign for change in another one is a huge undertaking which along with my other points means I have great difficulty buying into the idea while CCFC remains.
Yes small crowds are better than none but what if ACL find a better offer? What you're saying suggests that the current CCFC is dead-in my view it isn't and not everyone fully behind this Phoenix idea shares it either. To run a football club and campaign for change in another one is a huge undertaking which along with my other points means I have great difficulty buying into the idea while CCFC remains.
If ACL get a better offer, then the current ccfc won't be back.Playing at the Ricoh is an important element to many supporters, which is why I'm in favour of talking to ACL ASAP, but only if there are enough supporters on board.
To me ccfc is gone, that's my view, I didn't say it was everyone's view. I said, "we can only do that (proceed forward with a Phoenix club) once we have accepted that what we knew as ccfc is no longer recognisable, and have moved on.
We are all at different stages of the grief process, personally, I moved on a long time ago, and I feel emotionally detached from everything sisu related. Everyone has different tollerances, and acceptance levels. Emotions are obviously very high with many supporters, and i accept it will take time for the majority to come on board with this Phoenix idea, but we can only move forward if we are together."
I said nothing about a campaign of change regarding the sisu run club, I'm completely detached from it, i've moved on.
This is where is falls down, it's not black and white. There are lots of categories of supporter.
1)those like you, who now considers ccfc dead,
2) those that will travel to Northampton to watch ccfc
3) those that won't go to Northampton but will go to away games to watch ccfc.
4) those that won't go to games but hope ccfc returns ASAP.
5) those who would attend a Phoenix club but hope ccfc returns and would switch back to ccfc or propose a merger.
6) those that won't recognise Phoenix because cov still exist or because they're not Coventry residents (e.g those from nuneaton may want to go and watch nuneaton)
They're not all mutually exclusive but shows the unity you say is essential isn't there, especially if you're suggesting ccfc never be recognised again.
This is where is falls down, it's not black and white. There are lots of categories of supporter.
1)those like you, who now considers ccfc dead,
2) those that will travel to Northampton to watch ccfc
3) those that won't go to Northampton but will go to away games to watch ccfc.
4) those that won't go to games but hope ccfc returns ASAP.
5) those who would attend a Phoenix club but hope ccfc returns and would switch back to ccfc or propose a merger.
6) those that won't recognise Phoenix because cov still exist or because they're not Coventry residents (e.g those from nuneaton may want to go and watch nuneaton)
They're not all mutually exclusive but shows the unity you say is essential isn't there, especially if you're suggesting ccfc never be recognised again.
I know you didn't but others have which shows there's still not enough unity even on the club's purpose.
That's why we're talking about it, and are trying to work out our options to find a way to move forward. As I said, people are at different stages in the process, what seems unacceptable to some right now, may not be in the future.
It only will be to everyone if, and only if, the present club ceases to exist.
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