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I know the usual protaganitsts (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Bob Latchford
  • Start date Aug 29, 2016
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Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #211
Nick said:
People realised we were losing silly amounts of money?
Click to expand...

Not thought why people call you SISU apologist yet?... It wouldn't have taken much more financial investment IMHO to have gained promotion in that first year of them taking charge. Pity they didn't use the £20m promised at the "Get go" by Ranson eh Nick
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #212
Sky Blue Kid said:
Not thought why people call you SISU apologist yet?... It wouldn't have taken much more financial investment IMHO to have gained promotion in that first year of them taking charge. Pity they didn't use the £20m promised at the "Get go" by Ranson eh Nick
Click to expand...
Apologist? It's fact isn't it?
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #213
Nick said:
Apologist? It's fact isn't it?
Click to expand...


What's up Nick? no real reply to my post?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #214
Sky Blue Kid said:
Oh, and didn't they just not only get promotion,(Burnley) but won the league again?
Click to expand...

That doesn't really disprove my point.
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #215
clint van damme said:
That doesn't really disprove my point.
Click to expand...

Why doesn't it? Knowing Burnley as I do, I know it's proof... Suck it up buttercup and read this....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...osts-admits-Sean-Dyche-spending-3-6m-far.html
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #216
Sky Blues Kid, isn't it time for another one of your shite used car analogies?
 
Reactions: clint van damme

JimmyHillsbeard

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #217
Sky Blue Kid said:
Not thought why people call you SISU apologist yet?... It wouldn't have taken much more financial investment IMHO to have gained promotion in that first year of them taking charge. Pity they didn't use the £20m promised at the "Get go" by Ranson eh Nick
Click to expand...


Are you seriously saying that the reason we didn't get promotion is that Coleman and Kean weren't given enough money by SiSU?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #218
Most teams who get out of the championship either have the guts of a premiership squad backed by parachute money after relegation or spend heavily, (i.e Bournemouth). Burnley are the exception that prove the rule.

I'd love us to have owners who could throw that money at the team, but failing that, I want us to be well run and not load the club with debt gambling on promotion.

You didn't answer if you'd be happy with a fan owned model for the club run if it meant living within our means.
 
Reactions: torchomatic

skybluebeduff

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #219
Under the SCMP rules, the definition of 'Turnover' is particularly important as Turnover is used to determine the maximum wage-spend. Within a traditional accounting perspective, there are usually only three elements of turnover:



  • Match-day Income
  • Commercial Income (such as sponsorship)
  • TV revenue (and any 'merit payments' based on league position)


However the Football League use a is broader definition of Turnover. Crucially, the FL Turnover figure includes donations from the owners to the club and injections of equity. Loans from club owners are understandably not included in the Turnover figure as these would result in growing club debts. up club debts. In League 1 and League 2, a wealthy owner can therefore fund the club spending in a way that is not permitted in other divisions. Manchester City and Leicester for example seem set for punishment for their excessive losses (from UEFA and the Championship respectively) despite the fact that the owners have injected hard cash into the club to finance the spending.
http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/scmp.php


They could put money in, but they won't, stop sticking up for BULLSHIT. It's above you in black and white.
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #220
fernandopartridge said:
Sky Blues Kid, isn't it time for another one of your shite used car analogies?
Click to expand...

fernandopartridge... Isn't it time for you to make a worthwhile post?
 

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #221
Sky Blue Kid said:
Yawnnnnn. Burnley won promotion after spending £500k on Charlie Adam and £4k on a left back... Serious cash that eh Clit?
Click to expand...

Where do you get this bullshit from? Charlie Adam has never played for Burnley. Last year they won the league having spent 9 million alone on 1 striker - Andre Gray, and had huge earners like Joey Barton in their team. This was on the back of having come straight back down from the Prem with a 30 million profit for the season, even before the massive parachute payments kicked in.

Their previous promotion they did not win the league - Leicester did. Leicester who smashed the FFP rules to do it. And Burnley managed it largely due to the brilliance of Danny Ings - another 7 figure signing from Bournemouth.

And they will come straight back down again, as their owners are refusing to buy anyone because of the crazy prices. Which, if you were a Burnley fan, you would be screaming about as a lack of ambition and calling them shit owners for 2 relegations in 3 years.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849, fernandopartridge, clint van damme and 2 others

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #222
Sky Blue Kid said:
Read my link, then ask if I'm sniffing glue!
Click to expand...

Sky Blue Kid said:
Read it yet? or has it got stuck in your throat yet?
Click to expand...

Yes I read it. £100.5m for finishing bottom plus £81.6m parachute payments so a min of £182.1m inc parachute payments.

Whilst its a lot of money, that's not the guarenteed £200m plus £100m parachute payments as you suggested:


Sky Blue Kid said:
£200m guaranteed for promotion to the Prem and £100m parachute payment on relegation. :
Click to expand...



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #223
JimmyHillsbeard said:
Are you seriously saying that the reason we didn't get promotion is that Coleman and Kean weren't given enough money by SiSU?
Click to expand...

I'm seriously saying if we'd not brought those two useless muppets in who were on serious money at that time, and kept hold of Dowie and used that money we'd have saved, we could have had a realistic chance of promotion... Oh! and actually had that promised £20m for players, I think we could very well have been in the Premier League by now.
 

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #224
Sky Blue Kid said:
I'm seriously saying if we'd not brought those two useless muppets in who were on serious money at that time, and kept hold of Dowie and used that money we'd have saved, we could have had a realistic chance of promotion... Oh! and actually had that promised £20m for players, I think we could very well have been in the Premier League by now.
Click to expand...
IF we'd not brought them in, IF we'd kept hold of Dowie, IF we'd used that money we saved, IF we had the 20 mill we COULD have been in the premier league. 4 massive IFs for a COULD, before we've even looked at what else was going on in the league that year.
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #225
clint van damme said:
Most teams who get out of the championship either have the guts of a premiership squad backed by parachute money after relegation or spend heavily, (i.e Bournemouth). Burnley are the exception that prove the rule.

I'd love us to have owners who could throw that money at the team, but failing that, I want us to be well run and not load the club with debt gambling on promotion.

You didn't answer if you'd be happy with a fan owned model for the club run if it meant living within our means.
Click to expand...

I believe if we were "Fan owned" we would have full houses every other week, because I know the gate money would be reinvested into the Club, Merchandise would be top of the list "Must haves". I personally would be back watching and buying season tickets for myself and my family(Possibly even a box.) You can take that as a FACT.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #226
Its a pity there are a dozen teams in the Championship prepared to spend to try & get to the Premiership. It is quite possible to spend big and still fail to get promoted.
 

JimmyHillsbeard

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #227
Sky Blue Kid said:
I'm seriously saying if we'd not brought those two useless muppets in who were on serious money at that time, and kept hold of Dowie and used that money we'd have saved, we could have had a realistic chance of promotion... Oh! and actually had that promised £20m for players, I think we could very well have been in the Premier League by now.
Click to expand...

Right - and I largely agree. But to reiterate, you're problem isn't with a lack of investment but in what (or who) the money was invested in?
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #228
Esoterica said:
IF we'd not brought them in, IF we'd kept hold of Dowie, IF we'd used that money we saved, IF we had the 20 mill we COULD have been in the premier league. 4 massive IFs for a COULD, before we've even looked at what else was going on in the league that year.
Click to expand...


Put it this way mate. SISU did themselves along with 22k+ fans no favours by Lying through their teeth about the £20m. Dowie brought both Dann and Fox to CCFC. was then promptly "Kicked in the bollocks" by being sacked in favour of that useless muppet Coleman. 9 months later Dann and Fox sold, and so began the slippery slide down the league until relegation and finally in the shit where we are now!
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #229
Captain Dart said:
Its a pity there are a dozen teams in the Championship prepared to spend to try & get to the Premiership. It is quite possible to spend big and still fail to get promoted.
Click to expand...


IMHO it is the old adage of "Nothing ventured, nothing gained"
 
Reactions: StevieM

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #230
Sky Blue Kid said:
I believe if we were "Fan owned" we would have full houses every other week, because I know the gate money would be reinvested into the Club, Merchandise would be top of the list "Must haves". I personally would be back watching and buying season tickets for myself and my family(Possibly even a box.) You can take that as a FACT.
Click to expand...

I don't actually dispute that attendances may rise - but how do we create a situation where cash flow allows for transfer fees & wages, rent, setting up merchandise systems for fans to buy, plus numerous other things. What happens in the close season etc...

It's like any small business in the fact that the set up costs to get going are the killer.

That would be the biggest hurdle to overcome.. that and not having a stadium.
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #231
Esoterica said:
IF we'd not brought them in, IF we'd kept hold of Dowie, IF we'd used that money we saved, IF we had the 20 mill we COULD have been in the premier league. 4 massive IFs for a COULD, before we've even looked at what else was going on in the league that year.
Click to expand...


Please read my last post
 

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #232
Sky Blue Kid said:
Put it this way mate. SISU did themselves along with 22k+ fans no favours by Lying through their teeth about the £20m. Dowie brought both Dann and Fox to CCFC. was then promptly "Kicked in the bollocks" by being sacked in favour of that useless muppet Coleman. 9 months later Dann and Fox sold, and so began the slippery slide down the league until relegation and finally in the shit where we are now!
Click to expand...
Why are we putting it this way? You're arguing about something else entirely now. It has nothing to with your statement that we could have won promotion with all your ifs and buts. Newcastle and WBA got the automatic spots that year, both immediately returning to the premier league at the first time of asking, with Newcastle breaking the 100 point mark.
 

JimmyHillsbeard

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #233
Dann and Fox played a total of 3 games each for Dowie as he was sacked before the February FA Cup game vs West Brom
Coleman signed Aron Gunnarsson, Keiren Westwood, Clinton Morrison, Freddy Eastwood, Stephen Wright, David Bell, Guillame Buezelin and James McPake before Fox and Dann left. He then signed Sammy Clingan, Michael McIndoe, Martin Cranie, Richard Wood, Gary Deegan, Chris Hussey and Carl Baker.
 

JimmyHillsbeard

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #234
Esoterica said:
Why are we putting it this way? You're arguing about something else entirely now. It has nothing to with your statement that we could have won promotion with all your ifs and buts. Newcastle and WBA got the automatic spots that year, both immediately returning to the premier league at the first time of asking, with Newcastle breaking the 100 point mark.
Click to expand...

No. West Brom and Stoke! Hull went up in the play-offs
 

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #235
JimmyHillsbeard said:
No. West Brom and Stoke! Hull went up in the play-offs
Click to expand...
You're right that was his first full season, I was referring to the year Coleman got sacked.
 
Reactions: JimmyHillsbeard

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #236
Esoterica said:
Why are we putting it this way? You're arguing about something else entirely now. It has nothing to with your statement that we could have won promotion with all your ifs and buts. Newcastle and WBA got the automatic spots that year, both immediately returning to the premier league at the first time of asking, with Newcastle breaking the 100 point mark.
Click to expand...


Im not arguing anything entirely different at all.
stupot07 said:
Yes I read it. £100.5m for finishing bottom plus £81.6m parachute payments so a min of £182.1m inc parachute payments.

Whilst its a lot of money, that's not the guarenteed £200m plus £100m parachute payments as you suggested:






Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

WTF you talking about??? £200m Guaranteed for promotion... Minimum £100m guaranteed parachute payment. Now when I went to school £200m + £100m = £300m Which is what SISU would make if they took CCFC up... and then brought them down.
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #237
JimmyHillsbeard said:
Dann and Fox played a total of 3 games each for Dowie as he was sacked before the February FA Cup game vs West Brom
Coleman signed Aron Gunnarsson, Keiren Westwood, Clinton Morrison, Freddy Eastwood, Stephen Wright, David Bell, Guillame Buezelin and James McPake before Fox and Dann left. He then signed Sammy Clingan, Michael McIndoe, Martin Cranie, Richard Wood, Gary Deegan, Chris Hussey and Carl Baker.
Click to expand...


How many of those 15 players Coleman signed would you say were half decent? I'll give you my list now...
Gunnarsson, Westwood, Crainie, and possibly Baker.... 4 out of 15 the rest were total Gash. This is my argument against Coleman.. The Welsh squad that did well in the Euro's having the spine of the team(Gary Speed) already there made Colemans job a "Walk in the park"
 

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #238
Sky Blue Kid said:
Im not arguing anything entirely different at all.


WTF you talking about??? £200m Guaranteed for promotion... Minimum £100m guaranteed parachute payment. Now when I went to school £200m + £100m = £300m Which is what SISU would make if they took CCFC up... and then brought them down.
Click to expand...
There's a big difference between saying if we'd speculated that year we could have got promoted vs highlighting the decisions that the lying SISU made which kicked off the slippery slide to League 1.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #239
Sky Blue Kid said:
Im not arguing anything entirely different at all.


WTF you talking about??? £200m Guaranteed for promotion... Minimum £100m guaranteed parachute payment. Now when I went to school £200m + £100m = £300m Which is what SISU would make if they took CCFC up... and then brought them down.
Click to expand...

Think you should re-read the article, because you are wrong. You're making yourself look silly.




After costs and before increase wages, bonuses, transfers an estimated profit of £108m.

No need to apologise.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
Reactions: clint van damme

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #240
stupot07 said:
Think you should re-read the article, because you are wrong. You're making yourself look silly.




After costs and before increase wages, bonuses, transfers an estimated profit of £108m.

No need to apologise.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


The club that win the Championship play-offs this weekend stands to make almost £200million from promotion to the Premier League.

An analysis of past Premier League payments, sponsorship and matchday earnings has revealed how much a team can profit from its victory - however fleeting.

Weird my link differs from yours eh stupot07... My basic figures were £200m for total gain to the Prem. and £100m for relegation. I never went into how much it cost to go for a pie at the away end
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #241
Sky Blue Kid said:
The club that win the Championship play-offs this weekend stands to make almost £200million from promotion to the Premier League.
Click to expand...

You don't seem to understand that they have to spend most if not all or even more than this to stay up. It guarantees a better quality of player & opposition but it isn't profit it is turnover.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #242
Captain Dart said:
You don't seem to understand that they have to spend all of this to stay up.
Click to expand...


So according to stupot07.. They have to spend all of the parachute payment as well?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #243
Captain Dart said:
You don't seem to understand that they have to spend all of this to stay up.
Click to expand...

....and increase their spending on wages massively including offering multi year contracts which will eat into the parachute payment pretty quickly. As well as that, the double whammy of an average 25% drop in attendances coupled with a likely decrease in ticket prices. Not to mention reductions in commercial income and sponsorship.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849 and Hobo

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #244
Sky Blue Kid said:
So according to stupot07.. They have to spend all of the parachute payment as well?
Click to expand...
Didn't help Wigan overmuch & you only get that dosh after relegation when salaries of contracted (shit) players (that got you relegated) you can't shift will eat most of it up. That is what happened to us after relegation from the premiership, the losses and persisting salaries couldn't remotely be covered by sales even though McGinnity had a damn good try at balancing the books.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849 and stupot07

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 31, 2016
  • #245
Sky Blue Kid said:
Really!... I'd say at least 8+ years. This Football Club had a team capable of promotion to the Premier league around the time SISU took control. What has happened since, Oh wait a minute.......
Click to expand...

Lots has happened since then, a lot of bad things.

But lets live in the real world, the current side is about 12 to 18 months old.....if you can't see the positives compared to the eight years previous that is up to you.
 
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