I hope... (1 Viewer)

wingy · Feb 16, 2016

Where has the Idea come from that Dennis Wise was match fit when he joined us.
He hadn't had a club for six months.
For whatever reason JC was out of shape and that doesn't mean he's got a shit lifestyle. But Dennis Wise was Instantly influential, a lot older and playing a league higher.
JC is a marquee signing but there's been a lot of leeway given and certain tolerances possibly weakening the set up to accommodate him.
He may now be finding the groove, only time will tell but there is nothing wrong with holding a view be it popular or not.
It just doesn't pay to go out on a limb over managers and querying certain decisions is not a)negative or b)traitorous, simply being circumspect and attempting to analyse performance..
It's exactly what Anderson will be doing, wondering why we've gone from 17k back to 11k and seen a shift in league position of four places incorporating a points swing of around 12.
Grendel isn't saying this cos he's putting poison down, but because it's a valid question to ask along with a couple of other factors that went into a trough in performance.
My view on this has been similar although I do see Improvement recently, when the seasons done If he's made a mug of me I'll gladly hold my hands up,both Cole AND TM

usskyblue · Feb 16, 2016

wingy said:
Where has the Idea come from that Dennis Wise was match fit when he joined us.
He hadn't had a club for six months.
For whatever reason JC was out of shape and that doesn't mean he's got a shit lifestyle. But Dennis Wise was Instantly influential, a lot older and playing a league higher.
JC is a marquee signing but there's been a lot of leeway given and certain tolerances possibly weakening the set up to accommodate him.
He may now be finding the groove, only time will tell but there is nothing wrong with holding a view be it popular or not.
It just doesn't pay to go out on a limb over managers and querying certain decisions is not a)negative or b)traitorous, simply being circumspect and attempting to analyse performance..
It's exactly what Anderson will be doing, wondering why we've gone from 17k back to 11k and seen a shift in league position of four places incorporating a points swing of around 12.
Grendel isn't saying this cos he's putting poison down, but because it's a valid question to ask along with a couple of other factors that went into a trough in performance.
My view on this has been similar although I do see Improvement recently, when the seasons done If he's made a mug of me I'll gladly hold my hands up,both Cole AND TM

There's a horrible echo in here. Yes. Like I said, it's premature to judge because Cole has been finding his fitness. Now he's fit, let's see what he can do.

I should add, I don't remember Wise being out of shape. If my memory serves, he hit the ground running and made a convert out of all of us very quickly.

Let's face it, it might be easy to make shitty comparisons between players from today and 10+ years ago, but is it really relevant? Cole's fitness issue has been obvious, perhaps in part, because the game as a whole, and the league we're in, is different.

I didn't make the Wise/Cole comparison, and I don't think it's a viable one.

.

wingy · Feb 16, 2016

usskyblue said:
There's a horrible echo in here. Yes. Like I said, it's premature to judge because Cole has been finding his fitness. Now he's fit, let's see what he can do.

I should add, I don't remember Wise being out of shape. If my memory serves, he hit the ground running and made a convert out of all of us very quickly.

Let's face it, it might be easy to make shitty comparisons between players from today and 10+ years ago, but is it really relevant? Cole's fitness issue has been obvious, perhaps in part, because the game as a whole, and the league we're in, is different.

I didn't make the Wise/Cole comparison, and I don't think it's a viable one.

.

That was the point I was making.
Wise hit the ground running 6 yrs older and hadn't had a club for 6 months so wasn't match fit yet was effective immediately.

usskyblue · Feb 16, 2016

wingy said:
That was the point I was making.
Wise hit the ground running 6 yrs older and hadn't had a club for 6 months so wasn't match fit yet was effective immediately.

Countered by the fact the game has changed, as has the league we're playing in. It's redundant, like comparing Arma to Mick Quinn. 'Match fit' today, is different to match fit 10 years ago.

Sick Boy · Feb 16, 2016

usskyblue said:
Countered by the fact the game has changed, as has the league we're playing in. It's redundant, like comparing Arma to Mick Quinn. 'Match fit' today, is different to match fit 10 years ago.

The game hasn't changed that much since 2006!!

usskyblue · Feb 16, 2016

If your talking about pies, no.

On the field. You can compare players that played 10 years ago to today's players, but in this case you're basically comparing a Premiership player of 10 years ago, to a League 1 player of today. In my opinion, it's a bit nonsensical. But whatever, knock yourself out.

.

Sick Boy · Feb 16, 2016

usskyblue said:
If your talking about pies, no.

On the field. You can compare players that played 10 years ago to today's players, but in this case you're basically comparing a Premiership player of 10 years ago, to a League 1 player of today. In my opinion, it's a bit nonsensical. But whatever, knock yourself out.

.

In what ways has the game changed in the last 10 years then?

usskyblue · Feb 16, 2016

Fuckaduck

* Money
* Playing styles
* Formations
* Fitness equipment
* Fitness technology
* Post game recovery
* Diet research
* Coaching philosophies
* More Academies producing younger players
* Boot technology

* Even the balls have fucking changed ! Via aerodynamic research.

.

Sick Boy · Feb 16, 2016

usskyblue said:
Fuckaduck

* Money
* Playing styles
* Formations
* Fitness equipment
* Fitness technology
* Post game recovery
* Diet research
* Coaching philosophies
* More Academies producing younger players
* Boot technology

* Even the balls have fucking changed ! Via aerodynamic research.

.

Clutching at straws

usskyblue · Feb 16, 2016

The top selling phone in 2006 ?

Try tweeting on that fucker ...

Sick Boy · Feb 16, 2016

HahahaHaha!!

Grendel · Feb 16, 2016

usskyblue said:
The top selling phone in 2006 ?

Try tweeting on that fucker ...

So are you saying that the players at league one now like Aaron Martin would have been in the premier league in 2006?

usskyblue · Feb 16, 2016

Grendel said:
So are you saying that the players at league one now like Aaron Martin would have been in the premier league in 2006?

I think you'll find, if you read what I said, I clearly stated that you can compare players that played in different leagues, in different decades. However, it was my opinion that it's not a valid comparison.

Now you're choosing to throw me another?

Otis · Feb 16, 2016

Grendel said:
So are you saying that the players at league one now like Aaron Martin would have been in the premier league in 2006?

Aaron Martin is only 26, so 10 years ago he would have been 16 and probably not even have been on the bench.

Grendel · Feb 16, 2016

usskyblue said:
Countered by the fact the game has changed, as has the league we're playing in. It's redundant, like comparing Arma to Mick Quinn. 'Match fit' today, is different to match fit 10 years ago.

I've just seen this. That is utter crap - the league hasn't changed much at all in a decade and if anything training has improved. There is zero excuse for players not being match fit - the premier league 10 years ago was at a high level of intensity.

Cole was playing games in the premier league last season. How many players after returning from injury need a further 8 to 10 weeks to recover? How many do you know who admit they can't play two games in a week?

Grendel · Feb 16, 2016

usskyblue said:
I think you'll find, if you read what I said, I clearly stated that you can compare players that played in different leagues, in different decades. However, it was my opinion that it's not a valid comparison.

Now you're choosing to throw me another?

You can't from that 10 year period.

As an aside were you the clown that said Peter Atherton was one of your all time worst Coventry players?

usskyblue · Feb 16, 2016

Grendel said:
I've just seen this. That is utter crap - the league hasn't changed much at all in a decade and if anything training has improved. There is zero excuse for players not being match fit - the premier league 10 years ago was at a high level of intensity.

Cole was playing games in the premier league last season. How many players after returning from injury need a further 8 to 10 weeks to recover? How many do you know who admit they can't play two games in a week?

I understand I may be on your radar, but you getting upset on the internet doesn't validate your point.

Do you have inside knowledge on the reason behind Cole's lack of fitness?

Grendel · Feb 16, 2016

usskyblue said:
I understand I may be on your radar, but you getting upset on the internet doesn't validate your point.

Do you have inside knowledge on the reason behind Cole's lack of fitness?

The point I have made is the same as Wingys namely that the period was disruptive and hampered results.

Your response is that you can't compare 10 years ago to now. However you can compare now - so how come even players like hunt (less football than cole) and Lorenzon can once fit play after a weeks training?

As for your last comment I assume it's you who has inside knowledge to make the statements you have.

Brylowes · Feb 16, 2016

usskyblue said:
The top selling phone in 2006 ?

Try tweeting on that fucker ...

usskyblue · Feb 16, 2016

Grendel said:
You can't from that 10 year period.

As an aside were you the clown that said Peter Atherton was one of your all time worst Coventry players?

'Clown'

I'm getting the very best of you today.

I can't recall a thread entitled
'All time worst Coventry players'.

usskyblue · Feb 16, 2016

Grendel said:
The point I have made is the same as Wingys namely that the period was disruptive and hampered results.

Your response is that you can't compare 10 years ago to now. However you can compare now - so how come even players like hunt (less football than cole) and Lorenzon can once fit play after a weeks training?

As for your last comment I assume it's you who has inside knowledge to make the statements you have.

So, no.
You don't know why Cole was so unfit.

Good grief.

Grendel · Feb 16, 2016

usskyblue said:
So, no.
You don't know why Cole was so unfit.

Good grief.

Diversion - brilliant.

usskyblue · Feb 16, 2016

Grendel said:
Your response is that you can't compare 10 years ago to now.

What part of can don't you understand ?

usskyblue · Feb 16, 2016

Grendel said:
Diversion - brilliant.

Oh dear....I expected better than this from you.

I get four paragraphs of nonsense and an assumption in reply to one question.

I'll ask again, just for kicks.

Do you know the details behind Cole's lack of fitness ?

Captain Dart · Feb 16, 2016

wingy said:
That was the point I was making.
Wise hit the ground running 6 yrs older and hadn't had a club for 6 months so wasn't match fit yet was effective immediately.

I can remember Wise 'running out of steam' as he chased a defender into the corner, an older player will never find the energy levels of a 20 something, delivery, positioning & guidance to younger players needs to make up for that.

skybluetony176 · Feb 16, 2016

JC was in bad shape when he arrived, obviously worse shape than Wise was when he arrived and couple that with the fact that players in general simply weren't as fit as they are now at all professional and semi-professional levels and Wise was able to hit the ground running.

As to why Cole was in such bad shape when he arrived? I think you only have to look at the fortunes of the club he left to see why. Wasn't the first comment the new Villa manager made on his inherited squad about their general fitness? Or lack of.

The reason Cole took so long to get fit? Simple, he isn't a teenager anymore. Maintaining fitness when you pass 30 is hard enough let alone regaining it.

Otis · Feb 16, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
JC was in bad shape when he arrived, obviously worse shape than Wise was when he arrived and couple that with the fact that players in general simply weren't as fit as they are now at all professional and semi-professional levels and Wise was able to hit the ground running.

As to why Cole was in such bad shape when he arrived? I think you only have to look at the fortunes of the club he left to see why. Wasn't the first comment the new Villa manager made on his inherited squad about their general fitness? Or lack of.

The reason Cole took so long to get fit? Simple, he isn't a teenager anymore. Maintaining fitness when you pass 30 is hard enough let alone regaining it.

Tell me about it!!!

Grendel · Feb 16, 2016

usskyblue said:
'Clown'

I'm getting the very best of you today.

I can't recall a thread entitled
'All time worst Coventry players'.

Well you're memory is as and as your footba knowledge. Suggesting Busst was better than Daish and atherton is without doubt bizarre.

www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/63130-Worst-Team-Centre-Backs/page2

Grendel · Feb 16, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
JC was in bad shape when he arrived, obviously worse shape than Wise was when he arrived and couple that with the fact that players in general simply weren't as fit as they are now at all professional and semi-professional levels and Wise was able to hit the ground running.

As to why Cole was in such bad shape when he arrived? I think you only have to look at the fortunes of the club he left to see why. Wasn't the first comment the new Villa manager made on his inherited squad about their general fitness? Or lack of.

The reason Cole took so long to get fit? Simple, he isn't a teenager anymore. Maintaining fitness when you pass 30 is hard enough let alone regaining it.

Wise hadn't played for 6 months before joining us had he? Hunt hadn't trained for anyone had he?

Grendel · Feb 16, 2016

usskyblue said:
Oh dear....I expected better than this from you.

I get four paragraphs of nonsense and an assumption in reply to one question.

I'll ask again, just for kicks.

Do you know the details behind Cole's lack of fitness ?

It's a diversion as it's irrelevant.

Signing a player with known fitness issues caused disruption that impacted results and required accommodating him as and when he can play.

The cause as you well know is totally irrelevant as was your random comment about fitness regimes.

You stated that it required time to adjust to another league and the fitness required.

Hunt took one week. Why?

skybluetony176 · Feb 16, 2016

Grendel said:
Wise hadn't played for 6 months before joining us had he? Hunt hadn't trained for anyone had he?

Good for them.

usskyblue · Feb 16, 2016

Grendel said:
Well you're memory is as and as your footba knowledge. Suggesting Busst was better than Daish and atherton is without doubt bizarre.

www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/63130-Worst-Team-Centre-Backs/page2

So, staying on the facts (as uncomfortable as you are with it)...

* There was no thread entitled 'All time worst Coventry Player.'

* I didn't say Peter Atherton was our 'All time worst Coventry player. I said, he was one of our 'Below average at best' centre backs.

Grendel, this clamor of yours is proving nothing but counter productive.

If you don't want to answer the question, just say you don't, I'll understand.

.

Imissandywhing · Feb 16, 2016

I agree. But I see both sides of the argument. It will be interesting to see the comments at the end of the season if we don't get promoted. (some will claim that he should have gone, whilst in the slump.)

Grendel said:
Seems most agree with me Tony

skybluetony176 · Feb 16, 2016

Grendel said:
It's a diversion as it's irrelevant.

Signing a player with known fitness issues caused disruption that impacted results and required accommodating him as and when he can play.

The cause as you well know is totally irrelevant as was your random comment about fitness regimes.

You stated that it required time to adjust to another league and the fitness required.

Hunt took one week. Why?

Which of course is bollocks.

Why weren't we a better team when he went off? Did our performances go down hill when he came on? Did we play better when he didn't play at all?

The answer to all is of course no.

Did he run the game on Saturday? Has he had more than one good game?

The answer to all is of course yes.

Boy are you going to be disappointed if he stays fit, ends up being our player of the season and because of that we go up.

usskyblue · Feb 16, 2016

Grendel said:
It's a diversion as it's irrelevant.

Hunt took one week. Why?

You're all over the place.

First you refuse to answer why Cole wasn't fit, on the grounds that it's 'irrelevant'.....

....only to ask why Hunt was ?

The answer to both, I proffer, is you don't know.

Try and focus all this nervous energy I've obviously stoked within you towards something constructive of your own, rather than trying, and failing, to undermine others.

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