I don't understand the Thorns doing his best brigade?! (1 Viewer)

CUS Wyken · Feb 6, 2012

torchomatic said:
So, what you're saying is if we swapped our complete team for Swansea then they would play poorly because they would be managed by AT?

Where did i say that????

Im saying it can be done. Who knows if that’s the case. I’m talking about current situations not hypothetically

I’m replying to his comment of ‘but when you are miles behind in terms of quality and depth, it won't see you win enough. I'm with Brian Clough on this one!’

Plenty of teams with low budgets have proved otherwise. Managers are very important in terms of getting the best out of players and use training to eradicate issues.

Yet our team on a regular basis make the same mistakes in crucial times.

Grendel · Feb 6, 2012

Rotherham were a team with a very low budget but survived for 2 seasons in the division. So yes in can be done.

Nick · Feb 6, 2012

Nonleagueherewecome said:
This is just wrong. The best move Saturday, leading to a goal, started with lots of short passing in our own half. Lots of fans stupidly started booing, shouting things like "get it forwards!". They couldn't see that we were doing the correct thing, moving opposition players out of position.

If you didn't see the analysis on how Swansea play (MOTD2 I think?), it is strongly advised. Sure we don't have anything like the same quality, but the same principles apply. Pass after pass after pass in their own half, all of which would have been jeered at The Ricoh, whereas they were cheered by Swansea fans who understand the style of play.

In a similar position near the end, Deegan tried to play a direct, forwards "Hollywood" pass: it was intercepted, and Ipswich scored.

Long ball does not equal results. It's a recurring theme on here that if only we hoofed it, we'd soon be climbing the table. Boothroyd showed that is not the case-it's totally one-dimensional and easily "worked out".

Thorn has adjusted his tactics from the Swansea model to slightly more direct-we started "mixing it up" a bit as we were too short-passing at times. It has led to slightly better results, but ultimately, it isn't the tactics that win: it's footballers. Ours just aren't good enough, and there aren't enough of them, compared to our peers. Tactics can give you an edge when sides are even, but when you are miles behind in terms of quality and depth, it won't see you win enough. I'm with Brian Clough on this one!

I agree that sometimes it works, how many times on Saturday we were deep and passing it backwards and then it ended up with Murphy who just hoofed it anyway? Against Boro we were playing direct as well by putting it on Platt who linked up well with Nimely.

Yes, if we actually made penetrating passes I would agree but when we play it across the back 4 inviting their strikers to pressure is it either leads to mistakes or it going back to Murphy who will go long anyway which happened most of the time.

Playing the possession game is great when we are winning to waste time and not under any pressure, when there are 4 strikers for the other team do we wanna be passing it across our back 4 or do we want to get it in their corner and keep it there?

I would love nothing more than for us to be in triangles all the way down the pitch just passing and moving like Swansea. The way we do it is pass out of defence, get to just past half way, stop, turn, pass backwards rather than looking up.

Otis · Feb 6, 2012

Thing is, Nick. When the opposition is on top and looking for an equaliser / winner and we go on the back foot, our passing game goes all to pot. As you say, that is the time to play possession football, when you are trying to see a game out and waste time.

Nick · Feb 6, 2012

Otis said:
Thing is, Nick. When the opposition is on top and looking for an equaliser / winner and we go on the back foot, our passing game goes all to pot. As you say, that is the time to play possession football, when you are trying to see a game out and waste time.

Plus we can't pass it across the defence as that would literally be across the penalty area.

Get it to Nimely or Sheffers in the corner, I honestly can't remember seeing us get the ball in the corner and holding onto it for a long while to see out a result.

wingy · Feb 6, 2012

Broghton or Brizzle????

oldskyblue58 · Feb 6, 2012

we defend far too deep, which gives us less space to play in, which puts pressure on our passing game at a time when legs and minds are tiredest. Trouble is we set up to play in our half then break forward, basically surrendering a huge chunk of the pitch to the opposition. Saw Swansea being mentioned, well their passing game is based 10m either side of the halfway we are based 20m + behind halfway from the kickoff - they are on the front foot pressuring the play we are on the back foot drawing teams on to us. It all means we allow teams to settle, conserve energy, get organised - which makes it harder for our lads, wastes energy, creates desperate defending and makes it far harder to get in on goal because even with the small amount of pace we have other teams can set up to deal with it. We dont have to set up to play in our own half even with the squad we have but we choose to. We dont pressure and compact the other team but allow them to do that to us. Or am i watching a different game to everyone else ?

I assume that the players do not choose the formation or choose to play so deep. I assume they follow instructions. AT's. It may well be his best but it aint working and that is not just down to squad size or quality

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Feb 6, 2012

kduffy said:
Rotherham were a team with a very low budget but survived for 2 seasons in the division. So yes in can be done.

Perhaps so. But I have tried to make it abundantly clear in recent posts that finance itself isn't the only issue. Certain managers can cheat the odds and over-achieve as you rightly cite. However, to have Thorn be successful on a meagre budget would be to expect him to over-achieve straight-out-of-the-box. And he hasn't the experience nor incisive vision to achieve such

Nonleagueherewecome · Feb 6, 2012

wingy said:
Broghton or Brizzle????

Beat me to it, Wingy! Short memories, some.

Nick · Feb 6, 2012

Nonleagueherewecome said:
Beat me to it, Wingy! Short memories, some.

Sorry, my mistake I couldnt remember. Happy to be wrong though

Nonleagueherewecome · Feb 6, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
we defend far too deep, which gives us less space to play in, which puts pressure on our passing game at a time when legs and minds are tiredest. Trouble is we set up to play in our half then break forward, basically surrendering a huge chunk of the pitch to the opposition. Saw Swansea being mentioned, well their passing game is based 10m either side of the halfway we are based 20m + behind halfway from the kickoff - they are on the front foot pressuring the play we are on the back foot drawing teams on to us. It all means we allow teams to settle, conserve energy, get organised - which makes it harder for our lads, wastes energy, creates desperate defending and makes it far harder to get in on goal because even with the small amount of pace we have other teams can set up to deal with it. We dont have to set up to play in our own half even with the squad we have but we choose to. We dont pressure and compact the other team but allow them to do that to us. Or am i watching a different game to everyone else ?

I assume that the players do not choose the formation or choose to play so deep. I assume they follow instructions. AT's. It may well be his best but it aint working and that is not just down to squad size or quality

I put this down to other teams having pace, and us having none. Swansea of course have pace in abundance (Sinclair/Dyer etc).

I don't understand the Thorns doing his best brigade?! (1 Viewer)

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