Hypocrisy (1 Viewer)

dongonzalos · Dec 9, 2012

When SISU do things that shaft us they are Satan's left testical.
When SISU shaft other people however it may help CCFC. They are the dogs bollox.

I know not all people share this hypocrisy.

However it is quite funny. Makes me wonder what people's limits are.

I must confess mine was Marlon's I could not turn a blind eye to that.

Grendel · Dec 9, 2012

Can't see why that is hypocrisy. All people want is for the football club to benefit.

The lower the rent ultimately the greater the benefit.

stupot07 · Dec 9, 2012

Have you got an iphone, iPad or any apple products? Have you bought a Starbucks coffee? Do you buy things from amazon? Do you vote for political party who's chairman is a non Dom? Do you buy the sun or any newspaper that Murdock owns or have a sky subscription?

dongonzalos · Dec 9, 2012

You are intelligent enough to see the hypocrisy.

If cov got promoted via a hand ball I would turn a blind eye.

If we missed out due to a hand ball I would be screaming blue murder.

Hypocrisy

WillieStanley · Dec 9, 2012

I'm missing your point, mate... Are you just making an observation or are you condemming those who objectively scorn the bad and celebrate the good?

I get that your handball analogy is hypocritic, but the fact that when there was a different board making decisions to the detriment of the club, people got angry, and now, a new board are trying to to get a better deal on the ground, hopefully for the benefit of the club, people are supporting them isn't hyposcrisy, it's quite simply different circumstances.

In life, when people make mistakes, that isn't just the end of it.

Last season, KD and OI ruthlessly cut costs.

This season, TF and JS are ruthlessly playing hardball with ACL.

Two very different scenarios with four very different people. The only thing they have in common is the fact that SISU are owners.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Dec 9, 2012

Grendel said:
Can't see why that is hypocrisy. All people want is for the football club to benefit.

The lower the rent ultimately the greater the benefit.

Do we 'benefit' by building a reputation of cheats, akin to a poor man's Pompey? As that's the reputation we're acquiring

WillieStanley · Dec 9, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Do we 'benefit' by building a reputation of cheats, akin to a poor man's Pompey? As that's the reputation we're acquiring

How on earth is that the reputation we're building? Where's the evidence in that? Other than the aspirations of the SBT, our situation and Pompeys are completely different!!

torchomatic · Dec 9, 2012

You'd rather see us go into administration. Moral high ground and all that.

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Do we 'benefit' by building a reputation of cheats, akin to a poor man's Pompey? As that's the reputation we're acquiring

Godiva · Dec 9, 2012

WillieStanley said:
I'm missing your point, mate... Are you just making an observation or are you condemming those who objectively scorn the bad and celebrate the good?

I get that your handball analogy is hypocritic, but the fact that when there was a different board making decisions to the detriment of the club, people got angry, and now, a new board are trying to to get a better deal on the ground, hopefully for the benefit of the club, people are supporting them isn't hyposcrisy, it's quite simply different circumstances.

In life, when people make mistakes, that isn't just the end of it.

Last season, KD and OI ruthlessly cut costs.

This season, TF and JS are ruthlessly playing hardball with ACL.

Two very different scenarios with four very different people. The only thing they have in common is the fact that SISU are owners.

Another common factor: The four different people worked to get the clubs finances balanced.

But what is 'ruthlessly'?
If they didn't control the costs that would be careless or negligent.

The OP is on the right track - if what they do is working out for the good of the club we will accept it.
If it fail, we will condem them.
Right now we don't know if they are succeding or failing, but as we can't wait to throw the stones we assume they are failing.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Dec 9, 2012

Don't care tbh

Club before morals

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Dec 9, 2012

CCFC said:
Don't care tbh

Club before morals

We see things very differently then. Club, yes; but with morality please

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Dec 9, 2012

WillieStanley said:
How on earth is that the reputation we're building? Where's the evidence in that? Other than the aspirations of the SBT, our situation and Pompeys are completely different!!

Did you read the comments from the Walsall fans on their board?

WillieStanley · Dec 9, 2012

Godiva said:
Another common factor: The four different people worked to get the clubs finances balanced.

But what is 'ruthlessly'?
If they didn't control the costs that would be careless or negligent.

The OP is on the right track - if what they do is working out for the good of the club we will accept it.
If it fail, we will condem them.
Right now we don't know if they are succeding or failing, but as we can't wait to throw the stones we assume they are failing.

Too true. I'm all up for holding a balanced view of things, that was the point of my post. I'm just not sure why the OP is calling people hypocrites.

"ruthlessly" probably was the wrong word but the cost cutting strategy was bordering on neglegent in itself. Controling the cost may have been the aim and that is commendable, but I think KD had set himself an unreasonable deadline, and it cost us our place in the Championship as well as a fair few ST holders.

WillieStanley · Dec 9, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Did you read the comments from the Walsall fans on their board?

No, I didn't. Care to share?

Grendel · Dec 9, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
We see things very differently then. Club, yes; but with morality please

So you think it is immoral to default on transfer payments then?

Grendel · Dec 9, 2012

WillieStanley said:
No, I didn't. Care to share?

They were getting all sensitive about non payment of rent - only because they are also paying a grossly inflated price at the Bescott. It's a sore point for them.

georgehudson · Dec 9, 2012

the owners endgame is to secure a profit for their investors,
their primary consideration is profit,
if, that means CCFC goes to the wall, then so be it,
CCFC fans are left to wait on their hardened decisions,
be under no illusions, they are in it for themselves,
the hiring of persons who have zero football knowledge were made on the basis of their knowledge of finance,
however, ACL/council/higgs, can adjust that to our (CCFC fans), benefit,
how many of us have an investment that is linked to sisu, pensions / bonds etc.,
just a thought,
PUSB & FOS

WillieStanley · Dec 9, 2012

More like a sore loss of 3 points for them. The opinion of a team we've just battered who also have extortionate rent and are a smaller club is bound to reflect that of the majority.

Grendel · Dec 9, 2012

georgehudson said:
the owners endgame is to secure a profit for their investors,
their primary consideration is profit,
if, that means CCFC goes to the wall, then so be it,
CCFC fans are left to wait on their hardened decisions,
be under no illusions, they are in it for themselves,
the hiring of persons who have zero football knowledge were made on the basis of their knowledge of finance,
however, ACL/council/higgs, can adjust that to our (CCFC fans), benefit,
how many of us have an investment that is linked to sisu, pensions / bonds etc.,
just a thought,
PUSB & FOS

In it for themselves? Who isn't? And if my pension is linked to this football club I'm off to live in a tent.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 9, 2012

Grendel said:
They were getting all sensitive about non payment of rent - only because they are also paying a grossly inflated price at the Bescott. It's a sore point for them.

Which is being perpetuated by national media.

dongonzalos · Dec 9, 2012

stupot07 said:
Have you got an iphone, iPad or any apple products? Have you bought a Starbucks coffee? Do you buy things from amazon? Do you vote for political party who's chairman is a non Dom? Do you buy the sun or any newspaper that Murdock owns or have a sky subscription?

life is full of hypocrisy the list is endless however I thinking more in terms of when we say, so what if it helps cov city then I don't care

georgehudson · Dec 9, 2012

p.s. grendel, you have the right to ask, of your pension fund, where the money is invested,
phone call for millets

dongonzalos · Dec 9, 2012

WillieStanley said:
I'm missing your point, mate... Are you just making an observation or are you condemming those who objectively scorn the bad and celebrate the good?

I get that your handball analogy is hypocritic, but the fact that when there was a different board making decisions to the detriment of the club, people got angry, and now, a new board are trying to to get a better deal on the ground, hopefully for the benefit of the club, people are supporting them isn't hyposcrisy, it's quite simply different circumstances.

In life, when people make mistakes, that isn't just the end of it.

Last season, KD and OI ruthlessly cut costs.

This season, TF and JS are ruthlessly playing hardball with ACL.

Two very different scenarios with four very different people. The only thing they have in common is the fact that SISU are owners.

Same company SISU shafted us with lots of decisions - hated.

Now shafting someone else with their decisions, which may help ccfc. For some good on them. It is hypocritical whichever way you dress it up.

stupot07 · Dec 9, 2012

dongonzalos said:
life is full of hypocrisy the list is endless however I thinking more in terms of when we say, so what if it helps cov city then I don't care

Both sides are postering, I don't trust or believe what either particularly say.

I don't agree with withholding rent. The £400k rent sounds good but none of us know the exactly details of this and possible future implications.

I believe they will reach a deal before Boxing Day and it will be one which is mutually acceptable to both sides.

We just need to hold our nerve and let them get on with it.

Godiva · Dec 9, 2012

If they don't reach a deal before 22-12-2012 we're doomed.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Dec 9, 2012

The funny thing is many of the people who were saying well done to the club for signing 15 players in the summers are the same ones now who are criticising the club for trying to get a lower rent

If we had held back in the summer and only signed a couple of players, maybe sold one or two of the young lads Thomas and Christie and continued to pay 100k a month rent I assume everyone would be applauding the club for there integrity and honouring there contract? I doubt it, the club can't win

stupot07 · Dec 9, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Same company SISU shafted us with lots of decisions - hated.

Now shafting someone else with their decisions, which may help ccfc. For some good on them. It is hypocritical whichever way you dress it up.

No not really, it's not hypocritical, no one is worshiping them, none of us like them but the majority can see that the rent issue needs sorting and as such we need to get the best deal we can.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Dec 9, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
We see things very differently then. Club, yes; but with morality please

But I bet you still cheered when King scored a goal for us?

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Dec 9, 2012

Grendel said:
They were getting all sensitive about non payment of rent - only because they are also paying a grossly inflated price at the Bescott. It's a sore point for them.

You use the word 'also' which insinuates we're paying something. Which we're not.

Their gripe seemed to be based on the fact that we fielded players the like of which their prudence couldn't countenance - McGoldrick, McSheffery, Mouasa - whilst at the same time hasn't made any rental payments for a year.

As stated above, now being picked up elsewhere

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Dec 9, 2012

CCFC said:
The funny thing is many of the people who were saying well done to the club for signing 15 players in the summers are the same ones now who are criticising the club for trying to get a lower rent

If we had held back in the summer and only signed a couple of players, maybe sold one or two of the young lads Thomas and Christie and continued to pay 100k a month rent I assume everyone would be applauding the club for there integrity and honouring there contract? I doubt it, the club can't win

It can. By honestly living within its means. Sit down and agree a new rent, then sign players according to the balance of the budget. Isn't that how businesses work?

Grendel · Dec 9, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
You use the word 'also' which insinuates we're paying something. Which we're not.

Their gripe seemed to be based on the fact that we fielded players the like of which their prudence couldn't countenance - McGoldrick, McSheffery, Mouasa - whilst at the same time hasn't made any rental payments for a year.

As stated above, now being picked up elsewhere

So what would you rather? We pay the rent and sell our players? Let robins walk and appoint another clueless fool as he is cheap.

Morality works both ways. The club is being ripped off. If we had a reasonable rent last season we would have had funds to employ a real manager who also could have signed players.

We are not a charity, we are not paying anything so what. We have paid far too much already and partly due to The ridiculous payment structure we have paid far too much already.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Dec 9, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
It can. By honestly living within its means. Sit down and agree a new rent, then sign players according to the balance of the budget. Isn't that how businesses work?

Isn't that what they are trying to do?

dongonzalos · Dec 9, 2012

stupot07 said:
No not really, it's not hypocritical, no one is worshiping them, none of us like them but the majority can see that the rent issue needs sorting and as such we need to get the best deal we can.

Not saying people are worshiping them. However the tough hard ball tactics.

Matters such as taking people's shares. Promising to get promotion in 3 years. Selling top scorers knowing it will consign us to relegation. Not talking to the fans putting us in administration. Coming out of admin just after our main targets sign for someone else........

Are often attributed to the fact they are a hedge fund. They are ruthless they don't care they are nasty buggers they will destroy us for a profit etc..

Hardball tactic when dealing with another company. Not negotiating. Reneging in a contract.
Starting negiotions then pulling out.
Not entering talks.
Not compromising
ACL left thinking they are going to destroy us. (sound familiar)
However for some 'its ok they get the rent lowers it helps cov'.

I wonder if the same people who support them on using these tactics on ACL will support them when they start screwing CCFC or the fans over something again.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Dec 9, 2012

CCFC said:
Isn't that what they are trying to do?

No. They stopped paying the rent they're contractually obliged to pay. This process could have - if genuine and candid - have been completed with a whole lot more grace and dignity than has prevailed

Grendel · Dec 9, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
No. They stopped paying the rent they're contractually obliged to pay. This process could have - if genuine and candid - have been completed with a whole lot more grace and dignity than has prevailed

Providing the end result is a fair rent rather than the obscene levels previously levied I am sure we will all be happy.

As for ACL we are assured they don't need the funds we pay. They are doing very well anyway. So no need to worry about them.

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